I have been doing live blood microscopy myself, on my own blood, daily, in fact, some days, hourly for about 10 weeks, and I have had it done professionally for the prior 8 months.
And yes, the invaders, ALL of them, do enter blood plasma, sure they may not prefer to be in blood, but they have to travel to other locations. And, its well known under ABX attack lyme moves often to areas close to skin, as its a nice place to hide...the immune system gives this area low priority.
MY POINT FOR THIS POST:
LYME IS A PARADOX. I DISCOVERED SOMETHING RATHER DISTURBING TO ME. THE WORSE I FEEL, THE LESS, THATS RIGHT, THE LESS LIVING INVADERS CAN BE DETECTED IN MY BLOOD DROP.
THE BETTER I FEEL, THE MORE INVADERS, LIVING, AND ENJOYING MY BODY ARE FOUND.
SO, MY POINT IS THAT HOW I FEEL DOES NOT SEEM TO CONNECT TO INFECTION LOADS.
NOW, DUE TO THE HERX REACTION, THIS MAKES SENSE.
GOOD LUCK.
Posted by gemofnj (Member # 15551) on :
That is so cool really interesting James. But I am confused. If we feel better, and all our symptoms subside, we usually end abx after 2 months. Looking forward to that someday.
How can we know if we are finally better, if the bugs play hide and seek when we feel better???
Or how we detect our infection loads? Is there such a test, even if unreliable?
Posted by Meg (Member # 22) on :
Hi James, Very interesting observations, I assume when you no longer can get a herx reaction, that feeling better may show differently?
Maybe this has been asked before-- Why not use saliva under the slides, have you tried that?
Posted by sparkle7 (Member # 10397) on :
Thanks for your info, James.
This would make sense to me. It's also why I feel that abx aren't for everyone. They just can't reach all the places that the spirochetes in their many forms hide.
Does anyone know where the spirochetes live? Do they live everywhere throughout the body of do they congregate in specific areas? Is there any reason why they may choose specific areas to set up house (or biofilms)?
I think this may be the reason why methods such as Rife or infrared light may be helpful.
Posted by disturbedme (Member # 12346) on :
James, thanks for posting this.
Good to know, something to ponder, etc.
Sooo....
The worse we feel, the happier they are because they are in secure places like our muscle tissue, skin, and organs enjoying themselves.
The better or healthier we feel, the worse they are because they are running around in our blood trying to find cover from our immune system.
Just a hypothesis... could be totally wrong, of course...
Who knows with lyme, though, really! I don't think any of us totally understand what they are doing or why they do what they do.
Posted by disturbedme (Member # 12346) on :
Sparkle - they enjoy muscle tissue, skin, organs and most of them congregate in those areas. It's also very safe for them because most antibiotics have a hard time getting deep in our muscles, organs, skin, etc. Also, they have a much easier time moving while in tissue substance... they are corkscrew-shaped and they dig right into our muscles and organs, etc.
They don't like being in our blood because it's not safe. Our immune system is hugely in our blood, as well as any antibiotics and medicine we have been taking. Also, they aren't very good movers in blood and they are slower. You can't really corkscrew through liquid all that well. Of course I haven't tried. Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
-
Spirochetes can, quite literally, spring like a rocket through nearly any tissue - right through blood vessels.
They will run away from blood draws, light, vibration and other forms of stimuli to hide as far away as they can.
the work of Alan MacDonald (or McDonald) really illustrates this.
=
Posted by sparkle7 (Member # 10397) on :
Thanks for the info! It's hard to comprehend how to get them... they also change forms - so, it's not just a corkscrew shape we have to deal with...
One of my first symptoms was pain during sex & very bad menstrual cramps. I thought I had a vaginal infection or I was allergic to something.
I didn't realize until much later that it was probably spirochetes setting up shop in my vaginal/uterus area. I believe there's alot of collagen there.
The pain also goes from shoulder to shoulder & my neck. My lower back is a bad area, too. I have no idea what's going on with my other organs.
I think many people have problems with their hormones - so maybe the endocrine system is a place that's effected by spirochetes...?
Does anyone know if there are specific areas where they like to live other than those mentioned? I'll have to look up Alan MacDonald's work. I posted an article by him about biofilms & Alzheimers.
I'm sure they also live in the brain & cerebral spinal fluid. We really need to find remedies that can reach all of these areas.
Maybe we can start a list of potential remedies for these areas...?
For me - I would say infrared light as one. We need to look into things that can cross the blood/brain barrier, etc.
I'm not too familiar with Rife - maybe some of you have more experience here, as well as, some herbs or other things.
Posted by disturbedme (Member # 12346) on :
Sparkle - I've heard that lyme really likes the thyroid as well... The reason why most of us have hyper or hypothroidism is because of this.
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
-
Q: Where do spirochetes, in all their various forms, hide out?
A: ANYWHERE THEY WANT
As hard as it is, the spriochete - and all TBD - must be thoroughly studied and understood in order for any treatment to work the best it can.
-
Posted by nwisser (Member # 15682) on :
Even if you don't intend on using herbs, I recommend reading Buhner's book Healing Lyme, as he directly addresses this question, using good documentation. I remember that he says they prefer viscous fluids and collagen, but he goes into it in detail.
Posted by jamescase20 (Member # 14124) on :
I read a recent finding that they like to hide near skin in white fibroblast cells. I guess they claim abx dont pene there very well, making topically applied drugs in conjuntion possiblely a good choice.
Posted by jamescase20 (Member # 14124) on :
My point was how you feel is not accurate assessment of infection tx.
Posted by gemofnj (Member # 15551) on :
James,
Where do you have blood microscopy done and who is knowledgeable in this type of study?
Endocrinologists??
Posted by jamescase20 (Member # 14124) on :
Orginally, my natpath did the live blood micro for me.
But being a former machinist, we tend to like to really think and solve our own problems.
And I did, I started my studing lyme videos on the net, youtube has tons of them.
Realising I had now known what the buggers looked like in live blood, I bought a phase contrast 1600x microscope, coverslips, immersion oil, and slides from a online vendor. IT took me about a month to get enough energy to break open the box. I finally did.
Posted by jamescase20 (Member # 14124) on :
Bacteria is not a smart bug, its just going wherever it can to make a happy place to live.
Since humans have a big brain, we are not suppost to be able to fight the invaders via immune system.
We are made to use our brains to get us out of harms way. USE YOUR BRAIN!!!
Posted by Meg (Member # 22) on :
Hey James, Looking for an answer above on my post if you would??
I think there's a high concentration of spiros in the bodily fluids. Have you looked at saliva?
Posted by Hoosiers51 (Member # 15759) on :
James, what type of microscope are you using?
My chiropractor's husband has Lyme, and she told me she wishes she had something to just look at his blood to see what was going on!!!
Thanks!
Posted by feelfit (Member # 12770) on :
hoosier,
3posts or so up James states that he is using a phase contrast 1600x microscope. he has also posted where to get the scope.
Feelfit
Posted by hokie (Member # 14720) on :
How we feel might not be an accurate reflection of the bacterial load IN PLASMA, yes?
The microscopy analyses you do cannot reflect the bacterial load in other parts of your body, right?
So while feeling good may reflect a higher plasma load, it may also reflect a lower bacterial count in other areas (muscle, etc...) which is part of the reason we feel better.
It's not necessarily counterintuitive, is it?
Posted by jamescase20 (Member # 14124) on :
No, amount of infection visable in plasma IS a accurate reflexion of whats in the other parts of the body too.
Bugs in plamsa means theres bugs elsewhere, no bugs in plamsa means there is very little, or no infection elsewhere.
These guys are not magical, and they have to use plamsa to travel from place to place.
And I am not shooting out my asss, this is my naturalpaths view and I am just echoing what shes said.
Posted by hokie (Member # 14720) on :
It's an interesting point of view. My thought would be that we should not expect the bacteria to be evenly distributed throughout the body and therefore that load in one area may not reflect "total load." That there would likely be times in which the bacteria was "satisfied" with the current location and would not be traveling as much. That high blood plasma may indicate dissatisfaction with otherwise preferred locations (perhaps due to treatment effectiveness?).
Posted by chubby-one (Member # 16195) on :
Very interesting topic. I cultured my own blood to diagnose my Lyme. I used BSK-H Complete medium from Sigma Aldrich.
I read in research papers on the internet that in chronic Lyme there is about one bacteria per 10 ml of blood. That's also what I found when I cultured my blood. I put 1 ml of blood in each tube with 10 ml of medium. Only one of 10 tubes grew Lyme bacteria.
I used Giemsa stain so I could view through a regular microscope, as I don't have a darkfield or phase contrast scope.
I've been using a Doug coil machine for the last 16 months, and I'm feeling quite a bit better, but not completely well yet.
Posted by gemofnj (Member # 15551) on :
James,
You are not only smart but creative! Very awesome subject.
I cant imagine how it would feel to actually see those little evil invaders in my blood system.
Posted by Meg (Member # 22) on :
James, My question has no ulterior motives to it.
I'm guessing you haven't tried saliva.
You have access to the microscope and this is the test I would try if I had access.
If you found concentrations of spiros in that fluid, the implications would be that the Medical Community already has the ability to test for LD with a very simple test.
Posted by jamescase20 (Member # 14124) on :
Yes, you can test the blood plasma for lyme, but the problem with the med community is that it has to be PROVEN beyond any doughts. And just seeing invaders in live blood dont mean much, except that its an invader, thats all it means.
But, common sense shows what it is, and the fact that its still alive you can use there movements as part of the way to determine what your seeing. Waiting for a lab to receieve the blood sample 5 days later may not work, as if there dead...its hard to tell what it is your seeing.
I have not tested saliva...actually I think I did once, but didnt see anything.
Posted by Meg (Member # 22) on :
I have not tested saliva...actually I think I did once, but didnt see anything.
That's very odd....
Posted by luvs2ride (Member # 8090) on :
The doctor who performed my high resolution blood morphology test was a GP who had advanced into integrative medicine. He is located in Winston-Salem, NC and is a member of www.acam.org.
The test is pretty cool. They put the picture of your live blood on a TV screen so you can see it too and they explain what everything means. I was very sick at the time, so there was just lots wrong with my blood.
![[bonk]](graemlins/bonk.gif)
I don't think any of us totally understand what they are doing or why they do what they do.
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)