quote:

---

Originally posted by stymielymie:


contrary to the idsa's ideas, long term abx is
not the answer for killing lyme and coinfections.

---

Huh?? So what got rid of Lyme and coinfections for you?
 

---

Posted by Angelica (Member # 15601) on :
 
I have been trying to send you a pm but your mail box is full.
 

---

Posted by stymielymie (Member # 10044) on :
 
vfend is antiyeast and antifungal
these are 2 different things
all yeast are fungi but not all fungi are yeast.
ie mushrooms.

antivirals prevent viral attacks during low immune system response to abx.
i have taken antivirals ,acyclovir for 5 years and
never got a viral attack of any kind.
no shingles,ebv,herpes nothing.

treatment was with iv rocephin twice,
iv vantin once and lots of orals.
mepron,plaquenil and zithro all for tx.

but however i did not go into remission after 7 years treatment until i stopped abx and took antivirals and vfend for 3 months.

tx also included slow regime of exercise from
water therapy in 90 degree water .
this progressed to today where i can play
45 minutes of heavy tennis with the pro.
45 minutes is my limit due to double knee replacement 4 months ago.

my protocol can be found if you do a search
on stymielymie.
i have written this before, and also betty
highly rec this .

any more info please post

docdave
 

---

Posted by gemofnj (Member # 15551) on :
 
Dave,

Just trying to understand -- once we are in remission take antiviral and vfend?

Because you will have candida in your system for a long time after abx?

Is Virastop a good antiviral?
 

---

Posted by stymielymie (Member # 10044) on :
 
no,you don't have to be in remission
you need a decrease in symptoms to the point you can get off abx.
then take the antivirals and antiyeast & fungals
this will knock the systemic yeast,viri, and fungi
out of your system.
this is the crucial part to getting better
many here stay on abx too long, and the bb and co's
become resistant.
this is what the view of the ids is and why they do not believe in long term abx.

there is reason to their insanity.

many may just want to try getting off abx and trying to see if they get better on these other meds.
it takes at least 3 months minimum to clear out the system, and yes they do cross the blood brain barrier.

it must be monitored with blood work,since vfend can hurt kidneys and liver in some.

tests to check for yeast,fungi and viri
many times also come up negative, and a definitive
test is not always the answer,as with lyme.

strict diet must be followed,as you do not want to feed the yeast.

many long term abx users,ie lymies, get positive ebv,cmv, herpes and many get zoster.
this can be prevented if the doctor places you on antivirals and abx at the same time.
acyclovir is generic and $5.00 for a month
so most can afford.
the new antivirals are no better the acyclovir and can run in the thousands.
they still have the patent on them.

one problem, vfend is very very expensive.
i was payi ng a copay of 20 but saw the bill once and think it is about $1000 per month so check with doctor to see if diflucan is sufficient.
however, diflucan does not kill fungi.
fungi have spores and are much harder to kill than
yeast. think of mushrooms in your front yard.
once you got them,they are almost impossible to get rid of.

so think about this and talk with your llmd about this.
my id doc,self taught by me, experimented on me and gave me the meds i wanted for my treatment.
he regulated the treatment, but the protocol
was designed by myself after much research.


docdAVE
 

---

Posted by oxygenbabe (Member # 5831) on :
 
I think you are on to something.
I think given variable genetics and variable virulence of strains, some of us have an inflammatory response that partially disables our immune system, rendering it less effective, and allowing other bugs to piggyback. So I think you are saying get the lyme bugs down, and then get the other bugs down.

OTOH I do know people who got well just with longterm antibiotics.

I did not think vfend killed--it's just stronger. No azoles are fungicidal, I think the echinocandins are? Am I wrong? Did you have vision issues with vfend? Lamisil works for some people but can cause liver failure without warning.
 

---

Posted by Geet3721 (Member # 15751) on :
 
So how do you know when its Lyme symptoms and when its a yeast issue?


Not an easy question to answer I know but curious as to when you felt the Lyme symptoms stopped when the LD and yeast symptoms are so similar
 

---

Posted by stymielymie (Member # 10044) on :
 
don't remember if vfend is cidal or static
ob, but here is the info.
http://www.rxlist.com/cgi/generic/vfend_ids.htm

yes it is a fine line and i think i passed it
many times during my abx treatment.
maybe if i had tried this cocktail sooner i would have been in remission sooner.

let it be known that i do have very mild flareups.
i take plaquenil and zithro for 7 days and stop.
this has been ample to stop a full blown attack.
i have had major stress within the last year and this has not brought about a full blown attack,even with this stress.
i have had 2 knees replaced 4 months ago,
had one dog die on me and have moved, packed, driven 15 hours with 4 dogs and 2 cats from fl to nc.

so i feel confident that this remission will hold for a while.

now i still have lingering symptoms that will
most likely be permanent, and i accept this as part of life and lyme.
memory loss,loss of concentration, bipolar disorder, prostate psa 10.

my objective with lyme and co's was to obtain a stasis in my body so that i could live comfortably
with lyme, not cure it.
i know and understand that iWILL GO BACK INTO A FULL BLOWN ATTACK, BUT HAVE NEW KNOWLEDGE TO

COMBAT THIS.
going off abx won't change much for many people,so going off and trying probably won't do much damage.i started feeling better 14 days into vfend and acyclovir.
docdave
 

---

Posted by oxygenbabe (Member # 5831) on :
 
Thanks, one more question.
Is it really so that acyclovir is equal to the other antivirals? Do you mean valtrex or valcyte, also? Didn't Montoya do this huge expensive study on valcyte?
I have not looked into the antivirals as I think my main issues are lyme and fungal.
I would like to figure out how to take antifungals, I'm so drug sensitive.
 

---

Posted by JesseSapp (Member # 16630) on :
 
I just began a trial of intravenous diflucan with the hopes that, at this point, the majority of my symptoms are yeast related. The original lyme symptoms I had are gone after many courses of antibiotics. But, I have persistant brain fog and derealization. This is exacerbated by sugary foods, but is generally constant. I am hoping that my lyme is in remission, and the IV diflucan will treat any lingering yeast. My fingers are crossed.
 

---

Posted by Angelica (Member # 15601) on :
 
docdave,

I think I have a fungal problem because Diflucan did nothing for my itchy skin which gets worse when I eat fruit so I think it is fungus not just toxins.

Is there a anti-fungal I can take that costs less then vfend because I have to pay for all my meds out of pocket?

Would a natural anti viral work? I have noticed a giant increase in my immune system since I started Host Defense by New Chapter.

Is it okay to take medicinal mushrooms in powdered from in capsules? I would hate to have to stop taking Host Defense because it really does make a difference in my health.

[ 24. September 2008, 11:05 PM: Message edited by: Angelica ]
 

---

Posted by JesseSapp (Member # 16630) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Angelica:
I think I have a fungal problem because Diflucan did nothing for my itchy skin which gets worse when I eat fruit so I think it is fungus not just toxins.

Is there a anti-fungal I can take that costs less then vfend because I have to pay for all my meds out of pocket?

Would a natural anti viral work? I have noticed a giant increase in my immune system since I started Host Defense by New Chapter.

Is it okay to take medicinal mushrooms in powdered from in capsules? I would hate to have to stop taking Host Defense because it really does make a difference in my health.

---

I don't understand your question. You think that you have a yeast problem, but diflucan didn't work? Maybe you weren't on it long enough, or at a high enough dose. Diflucan is relatively cheap (at least the generic is). I don't know if your symptoms are yeast related, but you then go on to ask if a natural antiviral would work... Work for what? Yeast? The answer to that would be no. An antiviral treats viruses...an antifungal treats fungal infections. It wouldn't make sense to treat a fungal infection with an antiviral. VFend is the same class as diflucan. Both are -azole antifungals. Flucanazole (the generic of diflucan) is cheap because it is a generic...VFend doesn't have a cheap alternative. Again, your questions are odd, and don't make sense. Hopefully this has clarified some issues.
 

---

Posted by lymeHerx001 (Member # 6215) on :
 
Diflucan and Biaxin for me = bad news.

I still never went for my blood work where they test the detox gene.
 

---

Posted by Angelica (Member # 15601) on :
 
Maybe Doc Dave will understand my questions because that is who I was addressing.

If he does not I am sure he will let me know.
 

---

Posted by Angelica (Member # 15601) on :
 
Lyme Ed for possible skin fungus or skin related candida what kind of test/culture should I ask for to find out just what I have so that I can get it treated correctly?

Would a LL naturopath be good for this or a dermatologist or who do you suggest?
 

---

Posted by Angelica (Member # 15601) on :
 
Didn't Dr. B. say at his latest lecture in PA that derealization was a bartonella symptom? I doubt Diflucan will take care of it Jesse.

Have you treated bartonella yet?
 

---

Posted by Angelica (Member # 15601) on :
 
^^^
 

---

Posted by lauirel (Member # 16640) on :
 
I do the diflucan protocol for Lyme along with mepron/cipro/biaxin.
posted by docDave

I have gotten conflicting info on diflucan. I took it for a 21 day pulse although I was told only once a week @ 150mg's a day. Did you take it for 60 days along with your others? I find your info very interesting in that I also did not experience what seemed like huge strides until the administration of Diflucan.....lauirel
 

---

Posted by lauirel (Member # 16640) on :
 
I do the diflucan protocol for Lyme along with mepron/cipro/biaxin. I take 60 days of 200mg a day then take off two weeks.
posted by docDave

I would like to clarify with anyone the diflucan protocol. I have received conflicting info in that I was to take it only once a week for the duration of antibiotic pulsing. I didn't agree and so took 150mg's daily for a 21 day pulse and also experienced very good things in taking it. It wasn't until I did the 21 day pulse along with my antibiotics that I experienced any relief from dermato-symptoms.
Question.
Did you take the diflucan for 60 days with your antibiotics? I was concerned about the 21 day pulse, but the experience has been well worth it.
lauirel
 

---

Posted by lauirel (Member # 16640) on :
 
I do the diflucan protocol for Lyme along with mepron/cipro/biaxin. I take 60 days of 200mg a day then take off two weeks.
posted by docDave

I would like to clarify with anyone the diflucan protocol. I have received conflicting info in that I was to take it only once a week for the duration of antibiotic pulsing. I didn't agree and so took 150mg's daily for a 21 day pulse and also experienced very good things in taking it. It wasn't until I did the 21 day pulse along with my antibiotics that I experienced any relief from dermato-symptoms.
Question.
Did you take the diflucan for 60 days with your antibiotics? I was concerned about the 21 day pulse, but the experience has been well worth it.
lauirel
 

---

Posted by oxygenbabe (Member # 5831) on :
 
Angelica, many strains of fungi become azole-resistant (ie diflucan) and vfend is stronger.
Lamisil is another option and I think it's available on the Walkart, or maybe it's Walgreens, program. You *have* to be careful tho. Can cause liver failure.
 

---

Posted by oxygenbabe (Member # 5831) on :
 
Angelica, many strains of fungi become azole-resistant (ie diflucan) and vfend is stronger. Your questions were not odd.

Lamisil is another option and I think it's available on the Walmart, or maybe it's Walgreens, program. You *have* to be careful tho. Can cause liver failure.
 

---

Posted by stymielymie (Member # 10044) on :
 
up for those of interest

docdave
 

---

Posted by mandy614 (Member # 16524) on :
 
Can I take diflucan with biaxin and nystatin? I'm on 4 different abx and the nystatin and probiotics aren't helping. I've heard biaxin is not good to take with diflucan but my pharmacist said it was ok. Is it ok to take both nystatin and diflucan?
 

---

Posted by stymielymie (Member # 10044) on :
 
probably redundant tx
diflucan is better than nystatin, and vfend best.
check liver functions however with all antiyeasts

docdave
 

---

Posted by webmeg (Member # 13647) on :
 
Thank you for this post. I think I fit this theory. I treated Lyme from October until September, sometimes on and off due to various issues with abx. I was never horribly sick from Lyme but had a mild to moderate case.

Each time I stopped abx, I would relapse, but less each time. To me that meant I was getting the overall bacterial load down.

Yeast (thrush, bloating) became a clear issue this summer despite adding Diflucan to the mix in late July.

5 weeks ago, I stopped abx because of yeast. Doc gave me Diflucan which helped to a point. Altered my diet (I'm not perfect regarding diet but very good) however things continued to IMPROVE and Lyme symptoms were not coming back, or just extremely mild, and what did come back SUBSIDED!!

Still dealing with thrush, I asked my doc for Nystatin last week. For me, this really helped. It's like whatever I had on my tongue responded better to Nystatin.

Despite many here posting they don't like Nystatin, it did work for me. It may be that I need to alternate between Diflucan and Nystatin as they hit different things in my body.

I do have a question:

I know Yeast and Lyme cause similar symptoms. Do you think the Yeast causes the SAME symptoms as Lyme in a given person?

For example, numbness on my left hand and scalp was a Lyme symptom. After stopping abx, I got some of that again and then it subsided.

I wonder if certain areas of our body are "weak" so when you have yeast these weak areas, such as my numbness areas, get triggered by yeast?

It's just odd to me that the yeast causes identical symptoms (not new symptoms) as my Lyme. Did you experience this or did you feel you got DIFFERENT symptoms from Yeast?

I haven't tried VFend but continue to plug along with Nystatin, Diflucan, probiotics and a decent diet. Will keep VFend in mind!

Thanks so much. Any thoughts are appreciated.

~webmeg
 

---

Posted by swedish lyme sufferer (Member # 14579) on :
 
The diflucan sucesses are confusing I think.

I have a german LLMD and he uses Diflucan to treat Lyme.
He says it is one of the best treatments for lyme.

He says never to take it with abx, always alone for 20 or 25 days and then abx for 30 days then diflcan again and so on.

I did this once and I h ad horrendous twitching from diflucan,
thinking it was hitting the lyme.

BUT if yeast symptoms are the same....who knows?!!

Any one had twitching from yeast?

Thanks for a good topic and great postings!!
 

---

Posted by ItCantBeTrue (Member # 17151) on :
 
I was looking for products to buy online and found this;

http://www.stopyeast.com/order-page.html

It sounds like a decent product for yeast but then I noticed it was sold through MLM and I don't trust anything sold this way.


Anyone tried this 3-lac stuff?
 

---

Posted by mandy614 (Member # 16524) on :
 
Swedish lyme, doc dave and others-

Interesting, I was being treated for chronic fatigue before I found out I had lyme by a doc who liberally prescribed diflucan to me for 9 months! I'd say I took it every day for at least 7 months. I did go through a period of partial remission where I felt better which I thought was because I had the yeast in check and immune system was improving, but when I went off it I got worse than ever. I think I became resistant to it so I am very interested in the vfend which I'll ask my LLMD about in a week.

After this 9 month period is when I got tested for lyme and I was still very positive. I think it probably does help on the cystic form but not on the others two forms, just my uneducated theory. I've never had my liver checked.

Not that this is solving my yeast but taking high doses of calcium ascorbate along with wild oregano oil and garlic helps.

The Florastor is a great probiotic too.
 

---

Posted by CD57 (Member # 11749) on :
 
Bringing this thread up again....any stories with Vfend, Sporanox and/or Diflucan?

Anyone had any success with naturals only?
 

---

Posted by seekhelp (Member # 15067) on :
 
Mandy, 9 months of diflucan and that doc never ran liver tests. I'd RUN as fast as possible from that one!
 

---

Posted by CD57 (Member # 11749) on :
 
I think she did.
 

---