Hi, I know that others (like myself) are excited about Dr. W in Germany. Is anyone seriously considering going after we hear the results from the current group?
I am seriously considering it. My husband will get a work bonus in December that may cover most of the cost for me to go. I would love to room with one or 2 other people to reduce the cost and just to have support to go through the same things.
After 12 years, I just want to feel 'normal' again and excited about life. For me, it would be a financial gain as I would be able to start working again.
Finally getting diagnosed this week has me considering whether I even want to start the whole antibiotic regimen, the bionic 880 seems to work more quickly if they haven't been taken from what I have read.
Feel free to PM me if you want to!!
Ocean
[ 16. October 2008, 07:27 PM: Message edited by: Ocean ]
Posted by UnexpectedIlls (Member # 15144) on :
I would if I had the money and wasnt too sick to travel.
I am at the point that I cannot live in this body anymore...so I would try it if there was a chance that I could benefit from it.
Posted by feelfit (Member # 12770) on :
Hi Ocean,
I am seriously thinking about it. I am waiting for the reports from Six, Steel and the other woman who is there now (can't remember her name at the moment).
I need these reports to be positive to solidify my decision. I am also a fearful flier, haven't flown since Lyme disease....so I will have to jump this hurdle too.
That said, I would do ANYTHING to be rid of this horrible disease.
Feelfit
Posted by UnexpectedIlls (Member # 15144) on :
FeelFIt.. I am also waiting from the reports of Six and Steelbone.. As I trust their word.
Posted by sunshinyday (Member # 14337) on :
I think we are all watching them. Hoping they will all come back with good reports.
Posted by Ocean (Member # 3496) on :
Sounds good! Feelfit, I also am a fearful flyer, only have flown 2 round trips in my life (both to CA and back) and had a thunderstorm landing into Chicago this past May (while the flight attendants kept warning of possible severe 'chop'), we also had a medical emergency on the flight, so an ambulance was waiting for us and that passenger/family got off first. Whew, what an experience for a fearful flyer. Oh, we also had to circle around Chicago way over the lake for 25 mins until most of the storm passed. Talk about deep breathing
I totally get the flying thing. I did ALOT of research about fear of flying and joined a forum on MSN about fear of flying. I can tell you that I did not have a single panic attack and talked myself down when I felt anxious and took my rescue remedy as needed. I was still too nervous to eat much (but it was only a 4.5 hour flight too).
I had a panic attack just getting my car oil changed a week before the flight, I was terrified. But I was able to do it, much to my surprise AND I think that the fact that we may be getting a much better quality of life is a HUGE incentive!
My sister in law who flew to Africa a few years ago said it was the smoothest flight she was ever on.
I guess we can all talk more when the current group gets back then!
Take care!!! ocean
Posted by seekhelp (Member # 15067) on :
Can anyone comment on expected total cost for treatment for whatever period is typical? I don't recall seeing this.
Posted by sunshinyday (Member # 14337) on :
Paul told me about $6,000. They are chipping in on things too.
Posted by Ocean (Member # 3496) on :
Hi Seek, Yes, on the Bionic 880 thread, it was said that Dr. W's cost is anywhere from $2000-$3000 for 3 weeks. Then the cost of housing, rental car, airfare in food is all on you too.
I figure that since my husband opted for the HSA Bank account insurance (meaning we have to pay a $3400 deductible out of pocket before they will pay for my meds), that I will pay a little more for going to Germany, but the benefits will be well worth it!
Considering some people pay up to $3K/week for IV meds, well, for me, I'm more of an alternative medicine kind of gal, and the way the photons work make sense to me.
anyhow, that's what I had read, someone correct me if I am wrong!!
take care, Ocean
Posted by lymeparfait (Member # 14268) on :
Hi all,
I'm definately looking into going in the new year. Keep me in the loop as I would like to go with
others as well. I am concerned that I will have trouble with the language. I went to
Austria/Germany several years ago on a bike trip, and without our guide, I would have had major
problems communicating. Does Dr. W. speak english well? Gigi recommended learning some German...
I am hoping to also buy a machine to bring back to NJ. Anyone interested in going from New Jersey?
It would be great to get local groups to go together to help each other, especially after treatment back home.
Good healing and health to you all...and keep me in the loop!
Lymeparfait!
Posted by m0joey (Member # 13494) on :
For anyone that is considering going and doesn't know, there is another woman going with Six and Steel named Ruth. Six has a blog going right now that she is diligently updating after each treatment. The url is: sixgoofykids.blogspot.com
I will be flying over to join them next Tuesday, and my first appointment is on Thursday the 23rd. I will try to update my existing blog when I get the chance as well:
pathogensoup.blogspot.com
I think my experience will be of interest especially to those whom consider themselves severely ill. I feel I'm a tier below six and steel, as I can't even imagine taking a long walk around town and eating an authentic german meal (fried pork, potatoes etc) like they have done. My mom is joining me to drive me around and cook for me.
Before this, I'd been on antibiotics for about 4 months, improved around 10% from 40% functionality. Now that I've been off them in preparation for the bionic, I am feeling much like I did before antibiotics (and appreciating just how much of a difference antibiotics made)
My worst symptoms are cognitive dysfunction and fatigue.
-joey
Posted by METALLlC BLUE (Member # 6628) on :
I am considering it. I'm very skeptical however. I trust the judgment of a number of people who are going over there before me, so we'll see what happens.
One of my primary concerns is how people feel 6 months, 12 months, 24 months from now.
Posted by hiker53 (Member # 6046) on :
I have a great interest, but can't just leave my teaching job. I also want to wait a few months after these people get back to see if the treatment holds. Maybe late spring or early summer if it works for others. Hiker53
Posted by jam338 (Member # 14002) on :
......thinking about it here too. Just not sure I am capable of making the trip.
Sending hope to all who are there, and to m0joey!! Joey I just sent ya an email. Didn't even know you were thinking about going!
Posted by UnexpectedIlls (Member # 15144) on :
Maybe if this works, we can be the next group to go!!! (crossing fingers) as I am also a skeptic, but trying to keep an open mind!
Posted by jamieL (Member # 16563) on :
Dumb question:
Does dr. W take credit cards?
I want to go this summer but it would be for me and my two girls and it would be expensive. I'd have no problem putting it on a credit card.
Normally, I charge only what I pay off each month and am careful with debt but this is important. If it works, I don't mind going in to hawk to Chase for it.
Anyone know?
Gigi?
Posted by JesseSapp (Member # 16630) on :
How much does one of these devices cost? It's silly to have people spending $5000-6000 a pop to go to Germany for treatment. We could probably just buy one ourselves for not a whole lot more.
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
-
Even if it may be best to buy a machine for continued care, I'd sure want the expert to work with me for the first few weeks.
I've tried on my own to get well for decades and barely have managed. True, I've not had this machine, but learning from an experienced doctor would be so great if that is possible.
There is a great deal of value in having someone who has seen hundreds or thousands of others with TBD - someone who has an open mind about how to prioritize and the proper order of techniques. Someone who has seen what works and what does not.
Still, of course, we all have our budgets.
I know we all dream of the best and safest treatment and we then get to figure out how to do the best we can. Rather than put all one's eggs in a 3-week time capsule, it's good to consider all aspects, especially looking ahead to practical matters.
If you search "Bionic 880" there are several threads and the cost of the machine is there somewhere.
It would be great to get some local doctors interested - for those who will be able to travel to Germany, perhaps a MD or ND might be interested in going along. As education, it would be deductible.
As GiGi has stated many times, ANYONE can learn this. It would be the first phase of treatment, though, where local doctors could then be most helpful. And, if they had the machines, could offer treatments for reasonable fees.
-
Posted by lymie_in_md (Member # 14197) on :
A device costs 10k.
Posted by hanginginthere (Member # 11685) on :
I just wanted to chime in that I am very interested and have been following the threads. I would like to go after it's not quite so cold there--perhaps when the winter starts to thaw into spring, but before 'tourist' season drives up prices.
I, too, hate flying...but you know what they say, it's safer than driving! It must be the feeling a lack of control thing
About expenses--from talking to Gigi, you can charge Dr. W's fees but not the Bionic 880. Restaurants and gas stations take credit cards, but the Kleins and most grochery stores do not.
I would be interested in meeting up with some fellow lymenetters as well. Posted by m0joey (Member # 13494) on :
jessesapp--if you take a look at six's blog, you'll see this treatment is far from all gain and no pain. Six said she felt "horrible" after the first treatment, although much better a few days later. There is clearly a herx-like reaction afterwards. She also said Dr. W looks at the whole body before deciding what spots to project the light on. I really wouldn't encourage any patient whom hasn't been trained by Dr. W and his staff to shine this machine on a whim, and I wouldn't wanna be the guinea pig of an untrained doc either. Unlike antibiotics which have a pretty deep track record, we really know nothing of the long-term safety of this. Dr. W probably does though.
Speaking of which, let's compare this to antibiotics. After all, there's plenty of information about brands, dosages, and timing in a msg board such as this, but we still look to guidance from our LLMDs because they've seen hundreds, sometimes thousands, of patients and their experience allows them to see things that we're not even looking for.
I know there is a chiro in California that has the Bionic now, so if I didn't think going to Germany would be worthwhile, I would just take a flight up to norcal to get a nice shine on. We all hope that in time, U.S. practitioners will get training at the source so that we don't need to fly overseas to optimize results while protecting our bodies in the process, but that'll take a few more years that some patients might not have the patience for.
-joey
Posted by rachellemarie (Member # 16419) on :
I am seriously considering going over in February. My main issue however is chronic and debilitating fatigue and headaches. I don't have any of the other issues everyone else discusses, so I'm not sure if it will work for me or not. After some more research, if I still feel comfortable that it can help, I may go.
Posted by m0joey (Member # 13494) on :
I wanted to make a clarification about the previous post: I heard from my doc that Dr. H knows of a chiro using the bionic in norcal. I do not know the specifics nor did I ask because I was planning on going to Germany. If anyone is seeing Dr. H soon, please ask him for this information. I will not see him until I get back from Germany, but if I don't hear anything through the grapevine by then, I will ask personally.
Posted by Annxyz (Member # 9097) on :
A Humane Idea : How about some folks being trained to use the machine ? Then GROUPS could join together and invest in a machine and help save lives of desperate sick people who are falling through the cracks .
I do not have a lot of money , but ten people contributing $1,000 could make the idea work. OR maybe we could negotiate a wholesale price if there is enough interest .
Posted by jl123 (Member # 15594) on :
quote:Originally posted by Annxyz: A Humane Idea : How about some folks being trained to use the machine ? Then GROUPS could join together and invest in a machine and help save lives of desperate sick people who are falling through the cracks .
I do not have a lot of money , but ten people contributing $1,000 could make the idea work. OR maybe we could negotiate a wholesale price if there is enough interest .
I thought there were already a few groups doing this? What happened to them?
Posted by Cass A (Member # 11134) on :
Dear Friends,
I'm interested in going.
Two things--in Germany, they tend to shut down over the Christmas holidays, PLUS Dr. W is MOVING, according to GiGi. So, be sure to book your appointment in advance before making any travel plans!!
Second, I got a brochure from the company that GiGi recommended, and their representative emailed me that the Bionic 880 costs $5600 if it's for export to the US. If you're going to keep it in Germany, you have to pay the German taxes. This could change, depending on exchange rates.
I'm interested in going. I plan to pay attention to what happens with the folks over there now after they come back. If I were to go, it would be in March or April of next year.
Since Dr. W does other things, like infusions, chiropractic, etc., it seems that a large part of the success of the treatment is from his expertise. At this point, that counts a lot for me.
Best,
Cass A
Posted by heiwalove (Member # 6467) on :
i'm interested in going as well, depending on six's and other's reports; possibly next summer.
what i don't yet understand is how folks maintain their progress/continue the bionic treatment once they return to the states. i'm assuming you'd have to purchase a machine (no way can i afford that on top of a trip to germany for treatment!) and a biotensor to do this? what about the mineral IVs and dr. w's detox protocols?
Posted by kgarrett (Member # 17420) on :
Ann I think the idea to buy one together to use would be great!! I wonder if we can look having people find a good location in regions around the country and pitch in for the cost. What would be even better is if we could help someone go to Germany so they have more experience and bring it back. I am sure some would feel like they were missing out by not going and wanting to invest money themselves to go, but what a way to bless someone else by helping with their expenses. Some of us with young children cannot go. I couldn't afford it anyway but, I would be willing to help someone else go. Especially, if it turns out to be effective long term. I am fairly new here so I don't know about who has gone. Has anyone gone and had good long term results yet.
Posted by designt1 (Member # 16568) on :
I'm waiting to hear how everyone that is there now feels after all the treatments are done.
Posted by NanaDubo (Member # 14794) on :
After having been to Germany for treatment I feel Dr. W's expertise is invaluable. The infusions you receive after treatments are very important to help deal with toxins being released and keeping magnesium levels up etc.
The nosodes you get while there are specifically for you and my understanding is that you do not use them on someone else. In other words if you plan on letting others use your machine, they would have to have their own nosodes.
I wouldn't feel comfortable myself without having had him test me for what I needed.
Just thought I would put my two cents in.
The cost of the machine is 5,800 Euro if you bring it back with you. The dollar is stronger now and ends up being around $7,770. If you have it shipped here it is substantially more.
There have been mixed reports of success having a machine shipped here from Germany. The gentleman at the company said you might be lucky and it would get through and it might not.
I believe Gigi's got hung up for unknown reasons but they have been successfully shipped to Canada and maybe other places. Worth a try.
This is a powerful and effective device and if you do not have a practitioner who knows how to use it, my opinion is to be treated by Dr. W and then if you want a machine, you will have a better grasp of what is involved.
Not rocket science but not a toy either. Again, just my opinion.
Dr. W does take MC and Visa. He does speak fairly good English but long conversations with complicated questions can be difficult. I do not speak one word of German (other than what I picked up there) and I got along okay.
Hope that is helpful.
Posted by lymie_in_md (Member # 14197) on :
KGarrett, I've been in the process of putting a group together in Maryland. I have some folks interested, I have identified practioners. Here's out it works, we have a group appointment to be energetically tested to how we would benefit from our own machine. We purchase the machine as a group and we work our treatment as a group. We'll say the cost is 100 dollars a person for each appointment and we buy the machine to use ourselves. Cost under 2k i'm guessing for the machine and the appointments and 200 dollars for the nosodes.
Posted by SForsgren (Member # 7686) on :
I am leaving soon as well and am looking forward to the trip. I know five personal friends now that have gone - all with very positive results.
Posted by nyjohn (Member # 15361) on :
if the bionic makers don't take credit cards, how can you pay for it?
how about the kleins?
thanks
Posted by clairenotes (Member # 10392) on :
I am seriously considering taking my daughter to see Dr. W as I find it much more difficult to get her well.
We are thinking about February or March if the reports continue to come back favorably. It would be great to go with others, and share in the expenses.
Claire
Posted by hanginginthere (Member # 11685) on :
nyjohn--I'm not the best one to answer this since I haven't gone yet, but I can tell you that Gigi paid for her bionic with a bank transfer. She said it was really easy. I'm not sure about the Kleins. My guess would be bring travelers checks and exchange money over there?
Posted by zombie_mummy (Member # 17402) on :
I am considering going as well. I will most likely need to travel with my husband or a family member as I need help getting around and am also on a very restrictive diet (but cannot cook for myself).
I would also consider buying a machine IF I could find a practitioner close by who would help me with treatment. Does Dr. W. share his protocol with other MDs or NDs?
Posted by m0joey (Member # 13494) on :
hi zombie
maybe you can post this question on six's blog and see if she'll gets the chance to ask him?
-joey
Posted by lymie_in_md (Member # 14197) on :
I just want to offer the following for consideration. I'm not sure any good ND/MD knowledgeable about energy medicine need learn anything from Dr. W. on how to do his protocol. He is doing nothing more then what these professional are already currently doing. The big differences between what he is doing is the machine the nosodes and the use of a tensor IMO.
GiGi already mentioned her grand daughter could operate the machine with the nosodes.
So what does the ND need to be aware of, metals in the body, biotoxins, and drainage.
If you think of it, buy your own machine and set up an appointment with Dr. K. and bring it with you and apply the treatment with your own machine. Dr. K. doesn't need to be trained in using energy medicine.
Maybe GiGi can confirm my thinking! Just thinking out box! Posted by zombie_mummy (Member # 17402) on :
Bob, I thought there was a 6-month wait to see Dr. K.???
Anyways, going to WA FOR 3-4 weeks would be almost as hard for me as going to Germany... The only advantage would be that they speak English in WA.
Posted by m0joey (Member # 13494) on :
I just wanted to be clear about the dif between live vials of borrelia and nosodes: nosodes carry the energetic frequency of borrelia but not necessarily the live material itself although it CAN in small amounts, while the live vials are just that--all live?
anyone clear on this?
Posted by clairenotes (Member # 10392) on :
Responding to Bob in Maryland...
Yes, but are there not factors of time, and perhaps intensity, not to mention having some knowledge or ability to assess how much each person can take in treatment? Or where to start?
Also, detoxing is another equally important consideration.
Perhaps I am making this more complicated, but it would surprise me that anyone could just step in without some guidance and begin using the Bionic 880.
Claire
Posted by lymie_in_md (Member # 14197) on :
Claire,
It might depend on the level of expertise of the practioner. No question Dr. W. is very experienced!
We are now hearing from sooo many who have endured the lyme battles and hopefully will soon come to the end of the lyme road.
Hopefully we can have a healthy debate on practioners using the bionic here. And it is hard to argue some of your points. There are many things to consider for getting a bionic hear in the hands of folks. And there is the comfort with Dr. W.'s success as seen by those who have or who are getting treatment.
If one of the three in Germany, either Paul, Six, or Ruth could get Dr. W.'s opinion. It might help assess the arguement.
I suspect Dr. W. is going to be over run with folks wanting treatment and your ability to schedule from weeks to months to years might occur. Practioners here may go from nice to necessity!
Thanks Claire for responding to my point, with a counter point, I really don't have the complete answer. Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
Hi everyone!
I hear that Dr. K is interested in the machine and heard about it from GiGi. It seems that she has mentioned that on another post.
I'm doing fine and speak no German.
Dr. W speaks at medical conventions here in Germany, so apparently he shares his protocol.
There are nosodes used and everyone has to have their own. So I had to buy 8 so that when I get home I can treat my whole family if they all need it. I don't want to buy 4 or 5 and find out they all test positive for it.
You cannot buy the live bacteria vial in Germany, only the nosodes. Dr. W provides the bacterial vial and you cannot take it from his office. So unless you can get a live vial, the treatment here will be faster than at home. He said it would work with nosodes only, but not as fast.
As Joey said, it's not no pain. The treatment can be hard. Steel and Willow had flares after the second treatment, I did not. I just feel better.
Mrs. Klein said that two years ago someone stayed here and Mrs. Klein had never heard of Lyme before. That lady was getting treatment from Dr. W and now she comes back once per year for a checkup. Both years she has still been Lyme free.
The objective of this treatment is to get Lyme free so the idea is that you would not need more treatment. For those who want a 4 week checkup like Dr. W does, if you know someone with the Bionic, perhaps you could borrow theirs for that one treatment.
It is hard to get my own questions asked by Dr. W because he is very busy and when I go in for treatment the nurse takes care of me, so please, no questions for me to ask Dr. W. I can answer based on my experience, but I'm not taking questions to him.
I had a question on my blog about bartonella. He does not test for coinfections, but they are supposed to clear with the Lyme. My babesia is flaring. I have had night sweats and air hunger. The night sweats are not normal for me, haven't had them in months, so I know it's the photons causing this flare.
The Kleins only take cash ... Nanadubo said that debit cards are easier than traveler's checks ... I don't know as I haven't run out of cash yet.
Posted by Ocean (Member # 3496) on :
Thanks for the update Six! Glad it's going well after only 2 treatments. It's so encouraging for those of us interested in the Bionic and Dr. W.
Obviously, I would rather do the treatment here if possible. I have an alternative MD that I'm sure would be on board and my uncle is a chiropractor who would be willing to help out, it's just that no one here knows exactly how to do the treatments/supplemental therapy.
I too wish a US doc would go over, although then, who knows, if it's not 'FDA' approved, the medical association may go after him/her.
Take care, Ocean
Posted by lymie_in_md (Member # 14197) on :
Six, it wouldn't be me if I didn't try to sneak a question in!
All of you, just get well!!!!!
Posted by Nobody (Member # 16041) on :
quote:Originally posted by METALLlC BLUE: I am considering it. I'm very skeptical however. I trust the judgment of a number of people who are going over there before me, so we'll see what happens.
One of my primary concerns is how people feel 6 months, 12 months, 24 months from now.
I feel exactly the same way. Extremely skeptical, and I also have concerns over conflicts of interest. However, if the folks who went do well (they seem to be non-biased as far as I can tell), then I'd consider it - if I had a windfall, because I certainly cannot afford it now.
Also I totally agree on the "how will they be feeling in the future" statement. At least 6 months later, will they all still maintain it was a 100% cure? Important things to think about before taking the plunge.
Posted by Angelica (Member # 15601) on :
I am very skeptical about many things yet for some reason not this treatment. I think everyone has to follow their own intuition about different treatments and listen to others they respect and trust and then decide for themselves.
I actually can not wait to go to Germany. I just have a very good positive feeling about this MD and treatment.
I luckily have been all over the world to many different countries by myself and have almost no fear of flying so maybe that helps in feeling good about hoping to get to go to Germany.
Six thank you for all your updates and may you continue to have a wonder trip. It sounds very exciting!!!!!
[ 17. October 2008, 03:09 PM: Message edited by: Angelica ]
Posted by NanaDubo (Member # 14794) on :
Angelica - I love your attitude I believe that will help you heal more quickly. Dr. W talks about this.
Heads up on travelers checks. I had difficulty finding a bank that would even cash them for Euros. I was quite surprised. I did finally find one but it was not all that convenient.
If I were to do it again, I would use just debit cards to get cash. Be sure to let your bank know you will be out of the country so they don't start refusing it.
Not sure what the conflicts of interest are Nobody. I'm just a woman who had an active life and got very sick. I am no longer and hope everyone can have the same experience.
Healthy skepticism is understandable and everyone must make there own choice. For me it was simple, just go. Simple, uncomplicated things always work best for me.
It is correct that you need to transfer funds for a bionic880 and for a biotensor. Maybe someday they will take credit cards but they do not right now. Both companies can supply you with their bank information.
The Kleins only take cash as do restaurants and almost every shop I went in to. Gas stations take credit cards as do car rental companies.
All the best to those of you considering going. I am in the process of helping my acupuncturist get her son there. I would love to go back again but when I do, it will be for a holiday!
Posted by nyjohn (Member # 15361) on :
how do you transfer funds?
btw, you should be able to trade in cashier's checks for euros at the airport when you arrive, but there might be a bit of a larger fee than at a local bank. when i was in munich there were banks everywhere that cashed in the checks for euros. but that was munich, over a million in population, not dobel.
Posted by clairenotes (Member # 10392) on :
Bob -- I just read six's blog for Thursday at her other site, and from what she describes about the procedure itself, it appears to be fairly straightforward.
So you could very well be right. I am too used to things not being simple in LD. More time and reports will tell.
Claire
Posted by NanaDubo (Member # 14794) on :
NYJohn - Pforzheim is a small city with many big banks. Only one would cash travelers checks and they limited the amount you could exchange each day.
The bank in the little town of Dobel was actually much more helpful. Neither is Munich though.
When and if you want to purchase the bionic880, they will supply you with their bank information. You go to your bank and transfer funds from your account to theirs.
The website is www.biophoton.de Posted by tickssuck (Member # 15388) on :
Hi,
I too am watching and waiting to hear Six and Steel's experiences and hope they're positive. I am only 7 months into tx; but, improvement is minimal. I basically have EVERY darn co-infection so I know it is a slow process; but, I'm open to this too if I feel confident in the reports.
By the way...I did a search to find Six's blog and only found a myspace link where I have to be her friend...is there another site? How do I access it? I would really like to read how it's going for her/them. Thanks!
TS
Posted by nyjohn (Member # 15361) on :
thanks, nanadubo!
i will now be able to plan ahead just taht much better!
john
Posted by lymie_in_md (Member # 14197) on :
Claire,
You have a good idea of using energy medicine yourself. If metals, thyroid, or dental aren't involved. You might just go ahead and buy the machine. Or fly to germany have one assessment appointment with the Dr. W. pickup a bionic and nosodes and fly back. Probably for about 12k. The flight with your daughter and the appointment is probably the savings to pick up a unit directly in Germany. There are some creative ways to look at it. You just have to see whats best in your situation.
Besides maybe you can convince someone not too far from you to try it. She hasn't posted in awhile, you know our mutual friend.
Say hello to her if you talk 2 her. Posted by karatelady (Member # 7854) on :
Bob -- unfortunately we believe that metals are a strong factor in my daughter's case (though not from dental sources). In fact, my goal was to try to get the lyme infection down as much as possible so that perhaps most of the work could be focused on the metals if we do go there.
But, as you alluded to earlier, by the time more information is in and mulled over, etc., we might be on a year long waiting list! Not sure what the best answer is yet. It would be nice if a practitioner here could get involved, but as someone mentioned earlier, there may be problems due to not having FDA approval on the device.
Thank you though... what you say makes a lot of sense, and I always appreciate ideas.
That friend in common, brilliant though she is, turns down my suggestions so much that I am not sure I am up to more rejection! But I will say hello to her for you if she checks in.
Claire
Posted by GiGi (Member # 259) on :
The Woitzel protocol, as it stands at this time, can be seen in the brochure I talked about a few days ago. I had copied portions of the brochure here. The total protocol is contained in that brochure.
I have a problem scanning it. But if you need to get it, write the manufacturer of the Bionic 880. Some of you have already written and received it.
There is nothing secret about the protocol, nor is the instrument difficult to handle. You can learn it in minutes.
If you want to get the instrument for later use at home, you will need to have a way of energetic testing. I do it with the Biotensor. And of course you need to know what you want to treat and what you need to treat, if anything. I also do this with Biotensor testing. It takes some learning. If you have someone for ART or other energetic testing, it's great also. It is good to know about heavy metals and bad teeth, and root canals, and other environmental toxins. The Bionic880 is a great start to remove a big obstacle and the rest is easier.
If you have serious dental problems, or heavy metals and amalgams, root canals, bad wisdom teeth, etc., it cannot be fixed, in my opinion, with the Bionic Lyme treatment. The repairs should probably be made before the Bionic880 Lyme treatment, because logic tells me that the source of the toxin has to be shut off before the rest can be fixed. If the mercury keeps coming from the existing teeth or a bad root canal, it doesn't make sense to do the Bionic treatment. The treatment and the Bionic will be very helpful to get the heavy metals and other toxins out of the cells and detoxing them is easier after the Lyme Treatment. In other words, from my experience and per Dr. K., the mercury will escape from the amalgam and move into the brain and body as long as the fillings remain in the mouth. It doesn't matter much how old the fillings are.
Have I confused things??? If the gas stove has a leak, the first things one should do is to shut the stove off, First rule in toxicology.
I do have the advantage of having had an A-l teacher in Dr. K. when it comes to a chronic disease and I learned a lot from A.R. and more from Dr. W. I still study and search and learn more every day.
The Bionic880 Lyme treatment addresses the Lyme only, mainly. The photons help get the metals out of the cells, but from there it takes some more support to get them into the toilet, or out by other means. Then some knowledge is important for organ support, etc.
As we know, some structural deficits might have to be addressed. Some lifestyles and unresolved emotional conflicts may also need attention. And a leaky gut takes time to heal.
I am glad that there is a Bionic880. I wish I had known about it a few years ago -
[ 17. October 2008, 08:00 PM: Message edited by: GiGi ]
Posted by seekhelp (Member # 15067) on :
I assume specific posters on this thread reside in Germany. GiGi are you one of them? Do you have affiliation with this doctor who runs this protocol or only a patient?
Your knowledge level on de-toxing and other issues seems incredible for the average patient.
Posted by GiGi (Member # 259) on :
quote:I assume specific posters on this thread reside in Germany. GiGi are you one of them? Do you have affiliation with this doctor who runs this protocol or only a patient?
Seekhelp, I live right here in the USA and have lived here for more than 55 years. But my husband and I went to see Dr. W. for treatment, mainly for my husband. And I have a habit of paying very close attention to what is done to us by doctors.
The most knowledge I gained from Dr. K. who is a great doctor and who actually helped me to get well, long before the Bionic880 came along. I again learned from the first day I visited his office. I quizzed and asked until he threw in the towel and gave me a huge box full of videos of all of his seminars over many years. That's how I spent my time - it caught my interest and got me away from moaning about my fate and feeling sorry for myself. I got busy and learned. I am totally well and have been for msny years. I highly recommend this approach.
I know that this topic has bounced around this site, but get real. I know that when you or a loved one is sick you will do anything to get better.
Desperation they call it.
Things that make this no go or scary.
Cash only. Not available in the US.. guess why? Expensive for what it really is in parts. Secret treatment/only one in the world. Discovered by accident. Rave reviews, but no data. So tricky that only one person is an expert. No science or documentation. Placebo effect. No real Company/business behind it. Valid Patents on technique or device? Desperate target market.
Sorry, I just can't see in my lifetime that this is THE SECRET CURE FOR Lyme Disease. Maybe it cures baldness and ED too?
There is also a long list of failed similar devices, herbs, dances, tonics, crystals, and other modalities in the history archives of Lyme and other diseases that are just predatory.
Sorry- to all those believers. I'm just not buying it and have to speak up.
Posted by Angelica (Member # 15601) on :
Dr. W does take MC and Visa. Not everyone is going to be interested in the same treatments nor should they be.
I am only hoping that when I make plans to go to Germany Dr. W. is not already booked. I could clearly understand how he might be.
The fact that he is helping people and giving them their energy back in a short amount of time is very refreshing to me.
Posted by steelbone (Member # 14014) on :
i am clearly getting better..i have had 2 treatments
4 more treatments to go...2 next week...
i have about 6 silver filling in my mouth and this treatment seems to be working fine for me
This works plain and simple
Posted by Angelica (Member # 15601) on :
What a great report! I am so happy for you.
Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
Actually, the treatment is not expensive hcconn. Dr W is teaching other doctors in Germany to do the treatments. He speaks at medical conventions all over Germany ... a Google search will confirm this statement.
What is expensive is flying over here, staying in a foreign country for three weeks, and buying the machine. Dr. W is much less expensive than traditional LLMD treatment.
Bob, your price is high ... my plane ticket was about $800 and the machine is $7700 with today's exchange rate.
I think you could do the treatment for less than $5000 if you don't buy the machine. The Klein's place is also inexpensive, especially if you share a larger apt with another person.
The reason it's not in the US ... it's new ... and the FDA.
Everyone has a right to be skeptical .... I was, but I was willing to take the gamble. I am glad I did ... it's only a week and I'm doing better already. I'm not wearing a lead suit anymore, if that makes sense ... I feel lighter.
Oh, yeah, the Germans have used infrared light for YEARS to cure baldness! I don't know about ER though ......
Posted by Gabrielle (Member # 5329) on :
quote:Originally posted by hcconn22: Extremely skeptical...
Things that make this no go or scary. Cash only. Sorry- to all those believers. I'm just not buying it and have to speak up.
hcconn22,
I'm also sceptical and you are right in many points. But as a German I want to comment on your "cash only" concern.
In Germany, we have a completely different payment culture than you do in the US. Still most smaller transactions are done in cash. The Kleins don't take credit cards and this is completely normal here. I've stayed in lots of self-catering houses in Europe and you always have to pay either cash or by advance bank transfer.
As it was pointed out: Dr. W takes MC and Visa. For me, as a German, THIS fact is rather odd because doctors usually don't take credit cards. Normally, they send you a bill and you pay by bank transfer.
Credit cards are taken in bigger shops and in businesses but in Germany, a doctor is not considered as someone who should do business.
Call us naive but we still think that doctors are here to help people and not to make lots of money. Of course, we don't want them to starve (and they don't) but doctors doing lots of advertising and making money are not the good German style and we don't trust them.
What I want to say: asking for cash is completely normal in Germany.
Gabrielle
Posted by NanaDubo (Member # 14794) on :
hcconn22 -
"Cash only". - (This has been explained. Different culture - most people there don't walk around with a wallet full of credit cards and using them for everything is not the norm.)
"Not available in the US.. guess why?" - (My guess is there is too much money to be lost by big pharmaceutical companies but it will be here eventually).
"Expensive for what it really is in parts". - (Not compared to many other treatment modalities).
"Secret treatment/only one in the world." - (there are hundreds of doctors in Europe using this machine for many things. It is no secret over there and Dr.W is by no means the only one in the world).
"Discovered by accident". (could be - how about penicillin?)
"Rave reviews, but no data". - (I imagine there is plenty of data on light therapy readily available. Seems as though the experiments NASA is doing are kept more secret than work done by doctors in Europe and by professor Popp. Most any doctor over there using this will talk with you).
"So tricky that only one person is an expert". - (Not tricky at all and Dr. W just happens to be the one who came up with a treatment for lyme. It has been used for many, many other ailments in Europe).
"No science or documentation". -(Cells healing is certainly science. Perhaps some of the folks here with scientific minds will chime in).
"Placebo effect". - (Sense of well being yes, placebo effect? My lyme is gone).
"No real Company/business behind i"t. - (there is a real company and they do presentations and demonstrations. They are in Germany so why would they cater to this country?)
"Valid Patents on technique or device?" - (The bionic880 is a medically certified device in Europe- I have the certificate).
"Desperate target market". - ( I would think so. I was desperate to get well and there are many doctors desperate to help people).
End of quotes.
Dr. W is by no stretch of the imagination a wealthy doctor. His office is plain, no fancy furnishings, no fancy cars. My observation is that he is a brilliant man who loves his family, sincerely wants to help people and does everything he can to keep things affordable.
My appointments and treatments with him cost far, far less than any LLMD I have seen.
Your signature says you are tired of being tired. I was tired of being raked over the coals and pumping my body full of pills. That road may cure some but it did not cure me.
I no longer wake up every morning and say "oh God, I've got lyme disease."
Posted by swedish lyme sufferer (Member # 14579) on :
For those who will go to Dr. W in Pforzheim, I lived in Pforzheim for 8 months. seeing another doctor who is an excellent LLMD. (but he does not collaborate with Dr. W and I have no opinions on his treatment)
Just wanted to say that I might have some good accomodation ideas if you have to live in Pforzheim.
I stayed in an apartement hotel in Rohrstrasse 13 in Pforzheim, they are offering fully furnished small flats with equipped kitchens in the city centre of Pforzheim, within walking distance from the rail way and the clinics.
Price is around 700 Euro/month. So musch cheaper than to live in a hotel! And nicer! (They have TV with CNN and BBC for those who do not speak german)
If someone wants tel no. you can PM.
Posted by lymeparfait (Member # 14268) on :
Gigi, and all,
When I go to get my metal dental work (fillings and crowns) replaced, what should they be replaced with? What kind of dental work is safe? I dont want to just trust my regular dentist with choosing material for my mouth that may be hazerdous.
I have mulitple crowns and fillings since childhood. And my 17 year old daughter also has soft teeth and gets many cavities, like me, and she also is ill with lyme and co. Do teeth problems also come with cronic lyme?
I appreciate all your wonderful research and info. I am planning on going to Dr. W. in the spring with my daughther.Please pm me with any pertinent info. in ways to prepare.
I appreciate it.
continued healing and health to you all!
lymeparfait
Posted by nyjohn (Member # 15361) on :
i had mine replaced with composite
the dentist i went to in the hudson valley is very experienced in removing and replacing fillings and is top notch (and about the same price as others!).
pm me if you would like his name
Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
I also had mine replaced with composites.
About Dr. W taking credit cards .... when he showed us his credit card machine, he said he got it for the Americans because he knew that's how we did business and he wanted to make it easier for us.
It is true, we are using cash for about everything here.
Be sure if you stay somewhere other than the Kleins that you don't have wireless.
I highly recommend the Kleins. They are very nice people. I am writing you from an internet connection they put in at Nanadubo's suggestion to make it easier for Americans. The place is full of people from the US (not all from LN).
I would also recommend staying in Dobel because the air is cleaner. You drive 20 min. up the mountains and it's SO worth it! Small town, you can walk places .... in fact, there are walking trails ALL OVER.
I couldn't be happier with the trip and my decision to come. Time is going fast and I'm even having fun.
Posted by oxygenbabe (Member # 5831) on :
Goofy, can Steelbone and the other post on your blog as guests? Or post something and you upload it? Writing as it happens is really useful, there are details one always forgets. THANKS
Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
O2babe, not a chance. LOL, he's a guy who doesn't like to type! He'll give brief updates here .... I'll mention a little on mine if they differ from me .... we won't leave anything out. Posted by nyjohn (Member # 15361) on :
hey goofy do you know if you are going back to see your llmd when you return? i live nearby him (he is also my llmd) and it'd be great to hear some feedback in person if you happen to be going to see him, i'd drive over there to chat with you if you have the time...i did run my interest in dr w by j.f. and he said he couldn't pass judgement on the approach because he didn't know anything about it..so at least he didn't roll his eyes about it! i have my appt scheduled for dr w...but you guys will be back by then best wishes!
john
Posted by hanginginthere (Member # 11685) on :
Sixgoofy & steelbone, thanks for taking the time to keep us posted! It's really good to hear your news. Have a wonderful time!!
And to NanaDubo & Gigi~thank you for all your helpful tips!!
[ 18. October 2008, 12:36 PM: Message edited by: hanginginthere ]
Posted by karatelady (Member # 7854) on :
lymeparfait,
My ND had me take the Clifford materials reactivity blood test which tests for many different types of materials dentists use (I had no idea there were so many).
The blood work showed what compounds I was reactive to and what compounds were negative for me.
Then my ND checked me at the cellular level to see if the blood work was correct.
My dentist replaced 3 of my crowns this past year (I maxed out my dental insurance for the year).
It's nice to know the metals and other composite that were bothering me are now gone.
Sandy
Posted by sparkle7 (Member # 10397) on :
I am happy that people are feeling better after seeing Dr. W.
I do have to agree with visionoftruth's statement.
GiGi and others have bashed me for experimenting with the LightWorks. I have gotten great relief by using this $300 device. I do not sell them nor do I make money from talking about them.
I feel there is a huge conflict of interest going on here. We don't really know if GiGi is getting paid by Dr. W or the company that makes the Bionic 880. She has never stated that she isn't...
Dr W has obviously seen a big increase in patients due to the posting on this message board... so much so, that he is now accepting credit cards - something not traditional to German doctors.
I'm very glad for people who can afford to travel & be treated by a doctor who they get results from. I also think that healing with infrared light does work.
My issue is that GiGi & some of the others have a conflict of interest here. Other people selling things that may be of benefit have been booted off of Lymenet.
These posts about the Bionic 880 & Dr. W seem to become a big advertisement for going to Germany for treatment. Perhaps the people who are benefiting should make a nice donation to Lymenet...
Posted by nyjohn (Member # 15361) on :
i think that skepticism is good because science is based on it- that is theory.
but i also think that some of the people here are downright out to attack others and that is overboard.
some of you really need to do research on the medical system and various approaches used in europe, in particular germany, austria, and switz, and that can reveal a lot about your insane accusations about dr w, without even having experienced it for yourself.
i am thankful gigi, who, mind you, still posts here aside from being well, to help out those people who are still suffering. if i had connections in germany and spoke the language then i too would be lucky to be able to learn about medicines such as dr w's approaches.
i personally have been to germany for 2 surgeries when american, ego and money-based medicine failed to even properly diagnose me for a nasty injury (tore my 6pack off of the pubic bone, bilateral hernias, and torn abdominals) for 18 months! the care i recieved there was not only less expensive but was far beyond anything i have received here. that includes pre- and post-op care--it was all included. and it was less invasive than what i would have gotten here. they almost killed me here. i had two large tumors (fatty) removed in those surgeries in germany.
i also have had several european approaches used on me post-op (both just happen to be german in origin) and were fantastic. of course big pharma/insurance would not even recognize it. why? because 1) it works 2) is cheaper than drugs or surgery, and 3) it wasn't taught at hopkins med.
the ondamed is the predecessor to the bionic 880. rife is based on the same philosophies. so is pulse "laser," which a number of docs here in the us use.
my pcp is actually an llmd, and just yesterday he said i should go for it (germany) as he has used the ondamed with good success on a bunch of patients.
abx is what we know here. the alt therapies are not typically pushed because they are not widely taught, and are not covered by insurance plans. but abx can really damage you, if you don't know that then you don't pay attention.
i am thinking that it is worth a shot. 2000+ plus people is a lot. how many people currently post on lymenet?
to say gigi is involved in some in depth scheme is outrageous. she knows darn well that most lymies are with limited funds. that is not who scammers target. this is not the x-files.
i think that before you lash out you should wait and see what happens with others. then take it or leave it, your choice.
Posted by m0joey (Member # 13494) on :
all good points nyjohn. i have nothing against skepticism. I was in the same boat myself only a month ago. But if you're gonna come out and say Gigi and others have financial ties to these doctors, you could at least do a little more sleuthing.
I haven't been here that long, but first off it seems like Gigi has been around here longer than most of us. Although she is well now, she was in the same position as only until a few years ago. Altogether her posts on the bionic comprise a small % of her total posts. I'd wager they're even a small subset of her posts specifically offering help or advice to ppl. And IMHO, it takes a truly black hole of a heart to prey on the patient community that she was once part and parcel of. Sure, Gigi's tone may not always agree with others, but she's not here to be our best friend: only to offer what she's learned. And with that in mind, I've detected no sign of deception.
Last week, I spoke with a neighbor of mine who is around the same age as Gigi (late 70s). He lives in an old house he's been living in for 40 years, except now it's the only one left, surrounded by new apartment complexes in West LA. I asked him the obvious question: "has anyone offered to buy you out?" After all, his tiny plot of land is worth at least a few million. He says "More times than I can count. But what am I gonna do with all that money?? Buy a lotta women?"
Laughs aside, I suspect Gigi would have a similar response especially now that she is completely well, and her husband is well on his way.
My point is, if you suspect someone of having conflict of interests, you should put yourselves in their position and just how much money you'd have to get paid to overcome the karmic ills of misleading a bunch of poor patients. Even if you could put a price on that, I highly doubt Dr. W can afford it to all these "recruiters"
I've spoken with some of the others in Germany in lyme chat, and honestly I've been the one inundating the room about the bionic outta excitement, not them. Don't you think they would mention it every chance they get if they were pushing the product?
As for me, I'm too sick and reliant on karmic retribution to consider taking a single dishonest cent for the rest of my life. I've spent much time wondering what I did before I got sick with lyme to bring this upon myself. Either way, whether it's a punishment or a blessing in disguise, there's too much on the line for me to screw it all up.
Trust me, Dr. W cannot afford my headhunting services. And he'll be the first doc I speak with that knows anything about the machine. I'm a severely ill patient, and I have no expectations for my trip. But if anything good happens, Im gonna make it known and I really hope you skeptics won't be so cynical and so accustomed to being failed by the medical community to dismiss a treatment that just might work wonders for us.
-joey
Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
John, I probably won't be going up there. I have a phone consultation Nov. 4. I do most by phone consult except when I get on heavy meds, then I have to go up periodically. He gives me a break since I'm so far away.
For the skeptical. Don't worry about me, I have nothing but time and money to spare. I thought I'd give this a shot. I've spent WAY more than this on treatment, so it's well worth trying it out.
I wish you were right that I was part of a scam as I have two kids in college ... alas, you might push me back to blogging only while I'm here because of your unreasonable accusations. Not worth the anxiety.
Posted by UnexpectedIlls (Member # 15144) on :
Six, don't ever stop posting here... too many people care about you.. Including me! Posted by nyjohn (Member # 15361) on :
yeah, joey- i agree with you there. that is what i am saying, gigi could be doing lots of other things with her time, but some people, when made ill, develop a strong sense of compassion and empathy towards others in teh same boat and spend lots of energy, perhaps dedicating their lives, to helping those people. i have been there with some of the health issues i have had in the past and can relate. i have helped out thousands, both in the us and abroad, with a grossly under and mis-daignosed injury called a sports hernia, all because i had one and totally ruined my life before i was dosed with lyme and co. i agree with joey that if the bionic fixes me, then you bet i will let people know about it. to say that gigi is part of this crazy international medicine scheme with dr w and other german-based practitioners is totally out of line.
energy medicine goes back a long time- acupuncture, homeopathy, shamanic, mediation...i think, if it is the real deal, then the bionic approach is just new technology meets old theories on energy medicine. dr w, from what i understand, uses another proven method- homeopathy- in his protocol. some have been cured by homeopathy alone. some have been cured with energy-based machines like ondamed and rife.
so while it is good to be skeptical, which is normal, you should also try to keep an open mind.
Posted by nyjohn (Member # 15361) on :
oh well, goofy...worth a shot...i could show you and your family some great places to eat while you are in hyde park.
if i wasn't so nearby i'd do a phone consult as well. but i hope to be done with those appointments upon returning to the states.
Posted by hanginginthere (Member # 11685) on :
john & joey~you have a good way with words.
This board is great for information on all types of treatment, from antibiotics to alternatives. I have learned so much.
For me--after 2.5 years of IV antibiotics, $75k out of pocket, unreimbursed--I now need to look into alternatives because of three cases of refractory c.difficile. I'm not against antibiotics, they did help me. But I have relapsed and I cannot take them anymore. Do I give up or do I look for something else?
There are others like me who, for physical or financial reasons, need to look for something else. I've read the research behind photons, etc. It sounds promising and I am willing to give it a try.
I understand skepticism. It is good to research and be well informed. What a blessing that we are all free to choose what method we pursue. And I continue to remain thankful to others who share their experiences.
Posted by oxygenbabe (Member # 5831) on :
Sparkle has been making unreasonable posts lately, always about financial issues for herself and others, so I have to assume she's under financial stress and very concerned about money and taking it out on other lymies on the board, whether they want to spend $50 on a biotensor instead of a homemade pendulum, or go to Germany for Bionic 880 instead of Lightworks at home. I don't know why she would make such a post and it is completely counterproductive. Nobody should take it seriously, please. SixGoofy I'm glad you have a blog. You should at least interview Steelbone to report, if you could! Thanks! Posted by sparkle7 (Member # 10397) on :
You have to look at the facts. I'm not against anyone going to wherever they need to go to get treatment.
I would assume that other countries have much better treatments than we do here.
I am under financial pressure. So, does that make me a lesser person who is not able to have an opinion?
There are alternatives. I do think infrared light works. I am suspicious that there may be a conflict of interest here.
Other people who have advocated various types of therapies who made a profit from them have been kicked off of this message board.
I really don't know if GiGi has accepted money or gifts from these people who she suggests. So, I would like to ask her & clear the air about it.
I'm not going to make any assumptions about it. I just don't know...
Why else would someone who is well be spending so much time defending this treatment & ridiculing others who come up with alternatives.... based on a similar premise?
As I stated earlier - I have nothing against anyone going to Germany to get treatment. Perhaps my statement was vague - there have been people here who ridiculed me & dismissed my findings.
Sixgoofykids has not been one of those people... so, it's not against you.
The Bionic 880 is not the only LED unit available on the market.
Posted by Ocean (Member # 3496) on :
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, obviously. There are MD's in this country RIGHT now who don't believe that Lyme exists, they say it's in our heads (although quite literally, as a mostly neuro-lymie, it IS!), that we are making it up. It's their opinion and seeing all of the chronic Lymies in the world won't change their minds.
I have had this for 12 years and never knew what it was. The only thing that has helped has been an almost totally raw vegan diet. It's really hard to do! Most people in the US would poo poo it, say it's not healthy, ect. BUT, it works for me. I can't convince anyone to try it unless they do it for themself.
I haven't started it again yet as we've just moved back to OH and our fridge isn't working (which is vital for the raw food diet). I know someone who went to Mexico for treatment of prostate cancer using detox/herbs/diet, and he is well without chemo/radiation.
I don't want to start antibiotics, I believe that they are harmful. I'd rather try something else. If it turns out to be a waste of money, then it's my problem. That will be unfortunate, but I'll know. If I don't go and spend the rest of my life sick... how could I live with myself? I have 3 kids, ages 7, 5 and 2. I was to have more energy, I want this anxiety to go away, the muscle weakness, the sadness. I want to live for them.
So for those skeptical, please understand that I believe most of us KNOW this is a risk, we know that, but we want to try it anyhow.
Also, I highy doubt Gigi has any financial ties with Dr. W, otherwise wouldn't she be saying that her husband was cured after 5 treatments and never has to worry about anything again? Instead, she said he is still detoxing, has a little ways to go. ect. Plus, Dr W could be charging much more than he does. 2-3K isn't that much. I just read in the Top Ten Treatments for Lyme Disease that Bryan spent $15K at ONE clinic in Nevada!!
I may be wrong, and I will accept full responsibility for being wrong if this is all a hoax. I plan to visit on the the persons coming back from this trip, so I shall see, but I believe this is very authentic.
By the way, I do think that accusing gigi of working for Dr W so to speak would be like accusing everyone opposed to this of working for Big Pharma. Obviously it would be somewhat devestating if the bionic could cure many things that people usually take antibiotics for. I don't belive that you work for antibiotic companies, just saying that I think gigi is sincere, maybe I'm just gullable, but I get a sincere vibe from her.
Take care, Ocean
Posted by hiker53 (Member # 6046) on :
As with antibiotics we must also realize that what protocol works for one may not work for another. Sweveral people I talked to were cured (or feeeling 100%)with laser therapy. I tried it and was not.
To this day when I speak with these people they are still 100% several years later.
I guess what I am saying is if the bionic 880 works for some, great, and if it does not work for others, I am sorry.
I am willing to wait to see how people do before I would commit to going there.
I hope we will stop attacking Gigi and each other and just let opinions be posted without nastiness.
As for the cost, it does not seem unreasonable. I just spent a lot of money getting worked up by a reputable MD who would not tell me her protocol for breaking up biofilms unless I signed a paper agreeing to be treated by her. Turned out, as I learned from other patients, it was an over the counter med that had ingredients that I am allergic to and she knew my allergies. So, I wasted my money in the good old USA on a supposedly good LLMD.
Hiker53
Posted by feelfit (Member # 12770) on :
Costly treatment: Envita of Scotsdale AZ. quoted me 25,000 to 30,000 for natural Lyme treatment. This was two days ago.
This quote was for natural IV therapy. Housing and flight not included.
Now That is expensive.... I would rather put my money on Steel , Six, Willow, and Mojoeys reports for a fraction of the cost.
Feelfit
Posted by oxygenbabe (Member # 5831) on :
Vision: Tincture of time will tell. If SixGoofy, Steelbone, MJoey, NYJohn and others feel they get better, they will disappear from this board. You might want to get their emails to check in on them in six months.
If it's temporary, placebo, only partially helpful, they'll likely be back looking for answers.
It's really that simple. I've learned to just be patient and wait out the "new kid on the block" cure. It sorts itself out over time. Meanwhile, don't get hot and bothered about it. I'm reading these reports with interest and filing them away. I hope for the best, but I just wait, because it's expensive (if it were $10 and no harm done, I'd already have tried it).
Posted by Angelica (Member # 15601) on :
sixgoofy and others please continue to report back. You are giving me a lot of hope that there is something out there and a doctor out there that can make a huge difference in my health.
The ABX route is no longer the road I want to continue on and my fussy spleen agrees with me about no more ABX. If I never have to treat bart with bart drugs and pass through bart herx hell I will be only too delighted after hearing other peoples journeys through treating bart.
I value all that Gigi has done as a pioneer and highly value the reports coming back from all the people currently treating in Germany. I look forward to their reports daily.
I went undiagnosed for way longer than Ocean. I am sure her 12 years was difficult enough but try adding years on to that. Years of my life wasted with bad health. I had horrific symptoms such as panic attacks that did not last hours but lasted days. I felt like I was losing my mind until I was finally diagnosed after years of trying earlier with bad doctors and bad testing.
Until I was diagnosed this disease brought me a huge amount of shame because I felt due to my runaway anxiety and bartonella fears that I could not control my own mind yet I did not know why. My own sibling treated me like I was crazy and acted superior because I was doing so badly. This disease has caused me years of emotional pain.
Your positive reports give me so much hope. They also give me so much joy to hear that you are all improving. While reading your posts I actually become so overwhelmed at times because you are improving that start to cry.
I feel like there is much beauty and positivity coming out of this treatment due to the successful healing it is generating. It is like the birth of a new era in Lyme treatment. This is something so many of us have been praying for and dreaming about.
For whatever reason the fact that this protocol seems to be working is some how a threat to some people's thought forms.
I think sometimes any kind of change in thinking (like there may be a cure or something that really helps many lymies) is very difficult and threatening for people to wrap their minds around.
Maybe we should all ignore the nay sayers rather than feed into them by responding.
My guess is even though the Bionic 880 light treatment and Dr. W.'s care is a positive birth it is like anything new and not everyone is going to get use to it at once. Maybe that is why some feel threatened by it. What I am trying to say is any change even positive change can be scary at times because it is new.
I know from studying psychic healing that sometimes (not always) not everyone is ready to let go of their dis-ease when they mentally think they are. I am not pointing any fingers here or making judgments. My point is I think we all heal on our own time table and in our own way.
If some people are not open to this treatment that is okay we all have to find what works for us. This may not work for everyone. Everyone needs to follow their intuition and find what does work for them and what treatment they can believe and trust in.
It is wonderful this treatment is helping some people now and maybe 5 years from now it will be more mainstream and more available in the USA so then it can help the masses of people ill with Lyme who are interested in treating this way.
Posted by m0joey (Member # 13494) on :
Visionoftruth --
so i'm just curious, what would it take for you to believe it? How can you be sure anyone and I mean ANYONE on here isn't tied up with financial interests? Especially the poor patients, because let's be honest, they do have the most to gain from doing this right?
No one is going to start walking without a hitch if they've been in a wheelchair for a decade. The claim for this machine is that it eradicates the lyme, not that it sprinkles magic dust on you to return you to your old form 100%. If patients continue coming back with secondary symptoms, that doesn't flout the claim. Just like with antibiotics, after they get the bug under control, our bodies have a gradual process of recovery.
If the only thing that will convince you or anyone else is a scientific trial, you of all people, since you've been on here for so long, should know that there are immense political obstacles in the way of doing a published double-blind trial on a therapy simply because it has the potential to cure. Things don't and likely will never work that way in privatized healthcare.
I'm not saying you're wrong to be skeptical. I think everyone should be, but in a healthy way. One of the reasons why I'm spending this money is because I feel that there's a possibility of bringing back positive news that can really help change the landscape of lyme treatment. I know that with a few of us going now, lymies can go in troves later, share board, food, transportation expenses, or even see a doc domestically (Like I said earlier, if my muscle-testing doc hears good things from me, she will highly consider purchasing one herself) However, this isn't easy for my family. We can just afford the trip without suffering a backlash because my sister earned a full ride to college. Otherwise, I'd be offering well wishes to the next person going.
Do you honestly think Dr. W would pay 6000 euros a pop for advertising his treatment? Because that's how much he'd have to pay me to cover my trip expenses.
We've lost so much faith in the outside medical community. Can't we at least have faith in each others' words?
-joey
Posted by m0joey (Member # 13494) on :
I agree oxygenbabe. i fully expect to start hearing less from six, steel, nana. I myself hope that even with good results, I can continue spreading the gospel. I've oftentimes felt that the hardest but also the most important thing to remember when we get well is not to leave the others behind. That is exactly what Gigi has done, and I only hope I can be a smidge as helpful as she's been to patients.
Posted by MusicMan (Member # 11966) on :
Hi there
I don't have that kind of money right now anyhow but I am following and taking notes. Hope it works cause if it does, it will get cheaper and end up in the states.
Steve
Posted by Annxyz (Member # 9097) on :
We are all beggars in search of bread here . I do not think members like sparkle intend to ACCUSE . Most likeley , they are BROKE , and want some solid evidence before subscribing to the effectiveness of an alternative or ANY therapy . This bionic therapy is high risk in the financial sense for those of us who are in dire straits .
Those of us without the funds are looking for something solid to hang on to , like seeing people say they spent $ 4 Thousand to $10 Thousand on trips and bionic machines and were definitively CURED . That is not accusatory . I do not think sparkle has been accusatory . She has asked reasonable questions .
Like Sparkle, I just want to know something that is definitive , and sometimes the answers that are given here regarding the bionic are not definitive , and indicate " further work on metals or something else " is " still ongoing " . I thank Gigi for sharing and Sperkle for asking insightful and FAIR questions .
WE ALL HOPE THIS WORKS ! EACH OF US . There is no desire to accuse , just a desire to get honest facts to make our choices .
Posted by sparkle7 (Member # 10397) on :
Thank you, annxyz. I have been supportive of the whole issue of infrared therapy.
It just makes me feel weird that some people here attack me for looking into less expensive ways to do the treatment here for people on a budget.
Something makes me wonder about that.
The whole protocol is not all that difficult. It's basically infrared light, nosodes, & supplements. It's not brain surgery. These things are available here through the internet.
I think it's an interesting way to go as far as alternatives to abx.
The problematic part is that people can have severe & unexpected reactions to it during the process. This can be dangerous. So, it's good to have a professional around.
There are alot of gaps & questions that people have a right to know about. The idea of stifling questions with condescension & rudeness troubles me.
This is why I question some people's motives here.
Posted by m0joey (Member # 13494) on :
hey sparkle
My posts were not meant as attacks, and I hope they weren't construed to be either. I was only referring to what you and visionoftruth said about conflict of interests. I think the lightworks does have its benefits to. I trust that you have no ties and your reports were honest. I know the fact that the treatment is expensive naturally causes ppl to be more skeptical and take more defensive stances. The main point I keep trying to get across is people should be skeptical, but not to the point of making accusations. Obviously this goes for both the yaysayers and naysayers. I don't like the fact that some will attribute negative posts to "having a bad day" or something to that effect. That is really condescending. But saying someone has a conflict of interests can be extremely offensive to a fellow ex-lyme patient that has only good intentions. As cliche as this is, we all need to put ourselves in each others' shoes more often. Much of this inflammatory back-and-forth can and should be be avoided.
thanks to what Bob and my doc said, I'm starting to believe there is an emotional level to healing. If that is true, trusting in each other can really go a long way. we can pick at things all we want, but I believe it needs to be done in a positive way for both parties' sakes.
Posted by Angelica (Member # 15601) on :
Ocean wants to know Who is thinking about going to Germany?
I think this thread has been hijacked.
She is asking who wants to go not who does not want to go.
Posted by GiGi (Member # 259) on :
I just finished my post, tried to send, and hit the wrong key! So now, sorry you will have to wait until after dinnertime. Got to feed my husband.
But I will tell you --- my granddaughter's soccer game this afternoon was a lot more fun than reading this attempt at character assassinations. They also lost! But being out in the fresh air, blue sky, sunshine and painted trees made up for it.
See you later. I would not want to miss this.
Take care.
Posted by northstar (Member # 7911) on :
Actually, I thought this was a thought filled discussion, with minor but beneficial and heartfelt side topics.
Page 1 answered the original question Page 2 brought up good questions of logistics (related, but not answering the question) Page 3 brought up some doubts, concerns that were calmly answered with reassurances, which facilitated resolution.
So far so good!
Northstar
Posted by Angelica (Member # 15601) on :
Friendly discussion is one thing and fantastic if that is what was going on here but there seems to be some unnecessary unpleasant conflicts that we could all do without.
Posted by northstar (Member # 7911) on :
quote:there seems to be some unnecessary unpleasant conflicts that we could all do without.
Actually, I thought the responses to those who raised questions, were really good, and done without conflict, and that includes the levels of healing. Hidden concerns are not necessarily conflict, especially when they were responded to in such a generous tone, which elicited generous tone in response.
A mere drop in the bucket of 3 pages of posts (oops, this makes it page 4).
Northstar
Posted by lymie_in_md (Member # 14197) on :
To answer vision's questions:
> Where is the proof?
Don't think in our lifetime we will ever see clinical study on this. I'm not willing to wait, when I can afford it, I'd rather be treated by Dr. W. or by the bionic 880 in some way. That is my opinion!
If 5 people come back and say they are much better from the treatment, that's as much proof as we are going to get. Nanadubo believes she's in remission from dr. w.'s treatment after 3 weeks thats at least one, annsha two children makes it 3 testimonials. Those are folks known on the board who are now stating they are well. I find that significant as well as other reports so far. Just stay tuned, we'll learn more. As far as number of testimonials = proof, I don't know what that is.
> Where is the documented evidence?
Doubt we'll see actual documented evidence for some time. Because documented evidence would have to be acceptable to the CDC or the AMA. Wouldn't you agree? If it has to do with using light to heal lyme. Doubt that is in our life time.
It funny many doctors suspected biofilm in the alternative world for years. That bacterial colonies actual communicate together is something Dr. K. posted years back. Only recently do we have documented proof.
Its fine to be skeptical, really it is. You don't have to spend any money when your skeptical and there is no financial or emotional risk. But gee there is the part of wanting to feel well. It is quite a dilemma. It is one we all face.
Hopefully you find the answers you seek. Or wait until those answers are documented by the IDSA or the AMA or big pharma or the FDA or the CDC or the universities. Everyone has choices to make.
Posted by GiGi (Member # 259) on :
As I promised:
Regarding credit cards and doctors. When we were in Germany in June for treatment by Dr. Woitzel, I kept bugging him, and he installed the credit card system. I knew before we went to Germany, once I had seen Dr. W's power point presentation at a Medical Conference, that other Lymies would be heading overthere. I didn't want to walk around with a lot of cash on my body. (Little old ladies with a man in a wheelchair are easy prey!) Checks, as we know them here, are no longer used in Germany and the constantly changing dollar/euro exchange rate, leaves only mostly bank transfers. So now, it's ood for the ones that come after us that Dr. W. takes credit cards. Credit cards are not the custom in Germany. Our friends and relatives would wonder if they saw me charging my groceries! (gives us flying points!)
My dentist in Germany does not take credit cards. He sends people the bill after the work is done. I did not expect Dr. W. to do that. But he concurred that it is a lot easier and had the credit card facility arranged and available the day before we had to pay our bill and return home. He had started to realize at that point how many people with Lyme in the USA are looking for treatment that works. Remember when I deleted my original post about ``successful treatment'' --- one of the reasons was that he was flooded with phone calls all the time and had to shut down phones. Now he gets many e-mails which he has no time to answer and gets accused for that. Do you all remember the recent event. It seems I can't win and he can't either.
As for any doubts re success with Bionic880 treatment, I think he is still trying to figure out whether the bugs are more toxic in this country than the German ones, because he has been very successful with the treatment there for close to eight years. I have almost come to the conclusion that climate and travel for the insects forces them to evolve and become tougher and tougher the longer and further they go. I have always said that they are highly intelligent and that we are being conquered, slowly but surely. Dr. K. said it years ago and I have started to believe the same way. Another reason I feel is that the Europeans #1 have stronger building codes - EMF is a factor, but not as it is in this country. The Europeans also were not exposed to EMF as early as people in this country. It took years before they had a ``computer in every household''. I recently moved my desk even further away from the box, because I noticed my blood pressure going up systematically while sitting at the computer too close to my screen. (I test these things now with a very fine instrument - my Biotensor; it goes into minus/unhealthy territory from one inch to the next. )
Further, re Dr. W's character: A reputable medical doctor licensed in a small country like Germany does not go around the country making power point presentations to the medical community telling lies. He would be behind bars by now if that were the case. At one of the most recent ones, Prof. Popp - the father of the biophoton --- was in the audience. There may be a crook here and there, but your mistrust is misplaced.
I will only quickly respond to the rest of the accusations regarding me. I am very familiar with Visionoftruth - she about destroyed me with her nastiness a year or two ago when the discussion related to mercury and my friend and doctor, Dr. K. The ``discussion'' went on page after page. No more of that for me. I do not have time to waste. My years are counted. Mercury is a neurotoxin and I don't get paid off.
Sparkle seems to mix apples with oranges when it comes to lights - so there is no reason for me to get back into that. I cannot get to first base with her comebacks. We are comparing a bicycle with a jet plane, usually followed by her crys about being poor. Do it if it works. O2babe said it quite clearly. None of us has much left after years of treatment, and the crying people suck all the energy out of me. I am sorry if I do not spend much time ``feeling sorry'' and emphasizing with people. I know I have a big heart, and if you don't know that yet, I can't help it. I am not forcing anyone, I am simply defending what I have found to be the truth.
As far as my making a fortune on selling products and equipment, if any one of the people you suspect of enriching my life with monetary rewards and gifts should ever make me an offer worth my while which would not curtail my lifestyle and freedom, of course I would consider it. I would at that point stop posting on Lymenet permanently. Up to this very date, since October 2000, I have given a lot more to Lymenet than I have received.
Take care.
Posted by sparkle7 (Member # 10397) on :
I guess I'm the only one here who has a problem with the expense of this therapy...?
I'm not the only one who is looking for alternatives.
I'm also not the only one who was wondering about a potential conflict of interest.
Somehow, I'm the one who seems to incite quite a bit of inflammatory remarks directed against me.
Personally, I think it's a low blow... GiGi.
Posted by hcconn22 (Member # 5263) on :
When Dr B or ILADS says that the Bionic 880/Light therapy is the best treatment for Lyme disease, Babesia, Bartonolla im in.
Until then best of luck to all.
Posted by lymeparfait (Member # 14268) on :
Bionic Friends,
Please keep posting.
Many of us have had such great experience with using other alternative type treatments before they were recognized in the US.
For others, they need to see long term results. They do not go on gut intuition and feeling. I find that many people I encounter cannot even get their head around long term lyme disease! I live with someone like that. It is good that people discuss the pros and cons...but not to put down those who have a higher comfort level with trying things that are not harmful, and sharing their results with others of the like mind.
I do believe that there are different ways to heal the body, as I have personally witnesed and had my own positive results.
This is why I do believe the bionic 880 treatment has much to offer. I believe in a few years it will be in the US, and available for others. Some of us do not want to wait. I've already given up many of my few years on this planet, and I'm ready for a healthier life.
We that have hope in it, must give room to those who cannot get their head around it. I think it's a personality thing that some are prone to scepticism. I don't think they are being mean spirited, I hope. I just knowI have a husband that naturally questions everything related to medical and money! We are a good team,as we respect each others thoughts, have great discussions, and if I wait long enough, he usually comes around to understanding, and hasa suprised himself by experiencing unique healing trying a non-approved device to cure his plantar faciatis.
They have to see to believe, but it doesn't change their chronic skeptism. It's healthy debate!
Let's just stay positive and respectful, as on line conversations can take on a negetive tone without meaning to do so.
I love all your thoughts... keep posting!
Health and healing to all!
lymeparfait
Posted by SForsgren (Member # 7686) on :
GiGi, you have BY FAR given more to this forum than you have likely received. I am a beneficiary of that giving and I thank you!
Posted by lymie_in_md (Member # 14197) on :
Sparkle I have to agree with GiGi the cost of a treatment is what it is. You can't make an apple into an orange. If the treatment is expensive we just have to make it more affordable. One unit of 10k during the course of a year could treat 200 to 300 hundred lymies if we could just find a way to share. Then cost is no longer an issue. As the testimonials keep rolling in the interest will rise.
Posted by brite7 (Member # 16245) on :
Hi I'm new to the thread and it is very excting to hear about the clinic in Germany. I have a few questions and forgive me if this has been brought up previously and my lyme brain has missed it. Gigi & Six, if we have mercury fillings did Dr. W. specifically say it has to be removed first to benefit from treatment? Is it a requirement in order to use the photon machine? Does anyone know how much something like removing mercury fillings can cost?
BTW you are both very kind to take the time out to report your experiences and help so many other people You are very much appreciated.
Posted by karatelady (Member # 7854) on :
quote: i am clearly getting better..i have had 2 treatments
4 more treatments to go...2 next week...
i have about 6 silver filling in my mouth and this treatment seems to be working fine for me
This is from Steelbone on Page 2 of this thread
Posted by swedish lyme sufferer (Member # 14579) on :
WARNING
Just want to warn you that in the Black Forest, Where Pforzheim is situated is HIGLY ENDEMIC for the virus that can be found in European ticks called TBE or FSME. Causing severe encephalitis and some people can die from it.
There is no treatment available but you can take an immunization shot if you do not have lyme.....then you can't.
Please be CAREFUL if you visit parks etc.
It is a VERY dangerous virus!!
I would stay away from the woods for sure.
Don't want to scare you off, I lived in PFZ almost a year. You have to be careful, that's all.
Posted by GiGi (Member # 259) on :
This is the same problem all over Europe. I have friends in Sweden who are very ill. I have friends in Austria who are ill. The eastern countries are ill.
Care should be taken anywhere in any area of the world, that is green, grassy, forested. The ticks are everywhere and infections of all sorts come with them.
Any place, except Antarctica, is contaminated. And I am not sure sure about Antarctica any longer.
Who would have ever thought that there is a tick in Hawaii, the Big Island. That is where I got mine, and the people who owned the property are as ill today as we once were; they just don't quite believe in ticks yet.
So I am glad you are bringing this up for anyone out there to be alert - anyplace.
Take care.
Posted by Angelica (Member # 15601) on :
I always wondered about the rates of Lyme disease in Hawaii because they do not seem to report many cases if any but that does not mean it is not there. Now we know it certainly is there.
Posted by GiGi (Member # 259) on :
quote:Hi I'm new to the thread and it is very excting to hear about the clinic in Germany. I have a few questions and forgive me if this has been brought up previously and my lyme brain has missed it. Gigi & Six, if we have mercury fillings did Dr. W. specifically say it has to be removed first to benefit from treatment? Is it a requirement in order to use the photon machine? Does anyone know how much something like removing mercury fillings can cost?
No, Brite, Dr. W. does not specifically say so and did not when we were there. I asked him before we went to see him for treatment "what are you doing about the heavy metals?" His response was "the photons take them out".
In the meantime, I have learned a little more. It is a lot easier to release the heavy metals with the photon applications. It should be done repeatedly and attention has to be paid that the metals are not reabsorbed. Binding agents are important,
However, from my experience and has been taught by some very knowledgable doctors, as long as the amalgam fillings are in the mouth, the mercury escapes and is absorbed in nerve tissue.
I have learned that a lot of people cannot get totally well as long as they have to deal with the heavy metals in their system. Not only in the teath, but in other body compartments.
I have posted a lot on this subject. Maybe do a search here.
You should only go to a dentist who believes in the toxicity of mercury, etc., and does not do root canals any longer. Maybe there will be a safer way to do them sometime, but not at the present. The toxins root canals put out (dead tooth!) are highly carcinogenic. I also posted a lot about that many times before.
I do not believe in keeping amalgams in my mouth, because they created more problems for me than the Lyme infections. The Lyme infections would probably not have taken such a toll had I not had many amalgam fillings and many root canals.
I would adivse anyone to really check all this out thoroughly. I believe in turning the gas stove off when the gas is leaking into the room! As long as there are neuological symptoms, mercury most likely plays a role. Mercury is the worst neurotoxin and we are now surrounded by it. We have dug all the heavy metals up, Trees absorb it - any forest fire - and we are back to more in the atmosphere everywhere.
I don't know what it costs to remove them - look for a biological dentist or holistic dentist and do ask these questions. Also get tested for the replacement material before you do. Any good holistic dentist knows about that by now and can test you or can have you tested.
Hope this helps.
Take care.
Posted by Brussels (Member # 13480) on :
About detoxing heavy metals in a week: that's what I seem to have done with light, using the Photon Wave.
What I couldn't do in more than 2 years of herbs, supplements, etc, I think it was done in a week.
Same happened to my daughter, who's almost 5 now. She was born with mercury. All gone this last week, with 3 treatments. And we've been trying to clean her for years too!!!
We're both having some kind of strange reactions to this treatment with light, I have now borrelia testing again (it was dormant before) and my daughter is having aphtous ulcers all over her mouth.
I went there with a friend who's got active borrelia, arthritis, and she's got strong detox reactions to the light treatment too.
I feel 'lighter', my mood is lighter, my skin mycosis is gone ... Things are happening. I was treating mycosis with Sanum homeopathics, but they stopped testing after the first light treatment.
The lady who treated us has the same borrelia nosodes used by dr. W. and she said she uses these nosodes to treat people. But she first starts with heavy metals, then tests people for vaccinations, when these are cleaned, she'll test for parasites and pathogens (borrelia included) and treat these.
she won't do all at once because it would be overwhelming, she said.
All she had to do is treat patients with 6 minutes of light (through the eyes), then talk about how to help the body detox. That's as simple as it. Very similar to what dr. W. does, but he's more into a 'serious' detox (probably because the Bionic 'detoxes' borrelia, coinfections and heavy metals all at once!!). She does by steps.
Light is taken only through the eyes!
I can hardly believe most of my heavy metals are out in ONE week, but my tests confirm her tests!!!
And there must be a reason for borrelia to be alive again (it woke up since Wednesday, at least in our energetic tests).
I'm testing for borrelia nosodes potency D8, even though I feel nothing, none of my dozens of lyme symptoms are present and I just test for none of my magic herbs or supplements. So I leave my body doing the work so far.
On Monday, borrelia was not testing for her too (before my first session with light).
The treatment is very unexpensive and fast. The fact that my borrelia showed up does make me think about the close relationship between borrelia and heavy metals (and my constant relapses).
The aphtous ulcers from my daughter point to herpes (I still need confirmation though). I'm also guessing they came up with the release of hiding places for herpes, since her metals are out. She never had it so bad as now.
Photon Wave machines are in the US already, she told me.
I still can't believe I'm free of mercury. It's been a war of more than 2 years for me.
I'll pursue this light treatment wiht dr. W.'s nosodes (that's how she treats her own patients). In case they still test, of course, after this cleansing.
The only sure thing for now is that for the first time since I started treating lyme, I test negative for mercury. And so does my daughter. We did two tests, hers (ART) and mine, they confirm each other.
I tested my friend too, who came with us, and was positive for gold and other metals first, after 4 days, these tested negative (in both tests, mine and the lady's ART).
If eliminating borrelia is as fast as eliminating metals, this machine can possibly compete with the Bionic!!
I can only take her word, that it works very well and as fast with pathogens, as much as it did with heavy metals.
I can hardly believe this, I mean, that I'm free of most heavy metals. I still need to see if I still got some showing up later (peeling the onion theory)...
She charges very little for each time we use the machine. It's totally unexpensive for what it does.
I think that what the naturopath or doctor has to know is basically how to manage die off and toxic overload reactions. The rest is done with light!
She confirmed the use of Borrelia nosodes potency LM4 and LM6 as preventive of tick bites.
She's gone to a conference about light in Germany. It's happening this week in Heildelberg!
This makes me think that there are other modalities of treatments for borreliosis out there, to be discovered.
She herself got cured from cancer with light, that's when her adventure started.
Selma
Posted by psano2 (Member # 11711) on :
Brussels,
Where is the lady who treats you located? Would you mind pm'ing me her contact info?
Thank you,
Patti
Posted by Brussels (Member # 13480) on :
Sorry, I forgot to say which machine, it was the Photon Wave. I went to Brussels for treatment, but there are dozens of machines all over Europe. The lady who treated me is not in Brussels but in Flanders (north of Brussels).
Google Rainbow Flash & Photon Wave, you'll find it. Her site doesn't say much, the lady is a bad marketing person...
Selma
Posted by Healing in Santa Cruz (Member # 7798) on :
Hi Selma, So glad you posted your experience. I am so happy for you.I know you have worked very hard to get well. I am also glad to see their are alternatives that are less expensive. I think I had heard of the Photon in Calif. Can't remember where. My MD feels it will be light and energy that heals us. Please keep us posted on your new wonderful journey. Healing blessings Joyce.
Posted by nyjohn (Member # 15361) on :
hi selma that is great news!
i am wondering, however if you can post the link to her site, if you feel comfortable with it, because i cannot seem to find it...but then again i cannot think clearly that often. or pm if you would rather, please. thanks a lot and feel better john
Posted by GiGi (Member # 259) on :
This greeting to you, Selma, should really go on a separate thread. I think I posted several on the Photon Wave, but can't find it. So here my comments. Missed you.
Selma,
Glad you are having good results, but keep checking. Metals come in dribbles. Good luck. Here some of my experiences with colors. Besides treatment with CD's = colors also produce sound ----
This is a fantastic instrument - I was treated with its forerunner, identical technology, just a little fancier today, in 1998, etc. In fact, I have it here in our home - it's having a vacation here in our living room.
The instrument is not in all to many medical practices in the US, while you will find them all over Europe. The price is in a similar range/higher than the Bionic. If psychological problems are dominant also, with Lyme, the colors have a deeper effect, just as homeopathics have in the higher dilutions. (We are now treating metals in the very high K1000 with Bionic with light) and they are still forthcoming. I will have to get the photon wave out and test it together with the Bionic.
Dr. K. did a study in 1990 with lab analyses and found the increase in NT stimulation, and more. He found that one treatment with Photon wave equals 20 treatments of Tomatis. And it almost needs little if any added medicines.
My husband did not nearly have the output of heavy metals as with the Bionic, and it did not eradicate the Lyme. He still had it full force when we got to Dr. W. After 3 weeks of Bionic, they were gone. Same testing techniques, etc.
I am sure it has to do with the depth that has to be reached, and that is where the colors come into pay, I think. Any Unresolved Emotional Conflicts often a part of a disease process can be addressed easier with light/color.
The forerunner was the Lumatron. Today's Photon Wave contains a fully automatic computerprogram for frequencies and colors.
Color is extremely effective to stimulate the neurotransmitter metablism - but it is not known which color stimulates which one. It affects the autonomic nervous system and the brain function is stimulated. It also encourages the body's own regulation and detoxing mechanisms.
For detoxing metals - 2-3 minutes of yellow-green to mobilize, and double the time of turqoise and blue to detox.
Add a glass of water while treating to the light and colors and drink the water as med afterward. Don't use lead crystal or plastic. Clear glass. Anything can be added to the light/color: nosodes, allergens, all detox meds in vials, and
We use it occasionally, but you reminded me that I should turn it on more often choosing of course the right color and frequencies. I made myself test vials of all the frequencies and all color combinations --- it was fun. I used it quite a bit when I was still down and under with Lyme, very early into treatment. It didn't seem to be as effective for me then. But, I think, as you say, once the toxic load of anything has been lightened, the color goes deeper. Yellow-green/turquoise-blue/indigo with the vials of mercury etc. against the plexi resonator for mercury, etc.
I know it is used for a great number of problems --- hyperactivity, ADHD, ADS, Legasthenia, eye diseses, light sensitivities, night blindness, skin diseases, whip lash, CFS, PMS, Immune problems, sexual problems, depression, stress, pain, suizidal tend. Of course for bacteria, viruses, parasites, mycosis (fungi/mold).
With many diseases, the optic nerve is affected and therefore can pick up less light than when well.
In general - red light activates - blue sedates.
Effect of colors? Red tones on physical level. Blue tones on mental level. Green tones on emotional level.
Here a few colors for certain symptoms:
Lazy eye - red-orange If sympathetics and parasymp. are in balance - turquoise. Too little parasymphathetics: red colors to little sympathetics: blue colors Immune System, pancreas, intestines: yellow (half our family room turned into yellow when I was sick.....pillows, d�cor)
It goes on and on. I test colors with Biotensor
With many diseases, the optic nerve is affected and therefore can pick up less light than when well. Therapeutic light goes via eye to Cortex, brainstem, hypothalamus, limbic system (emotions) to epiphysis - hypophysis - on to the hormon glands!
Just a few things interesting and what color and light can do.
Take care.
Posted by oxygenbabe (Member # 5831) on :
When I lived in Santa Fe my then bf and I had a Lumatron in our home among many other things because he wrote about all kinds of healing technologies. Dr. K lived in Santa Fe then and borrowed the Lumatron from us to experiment with. I used to give myself treatments for fun (I was relatively healthy then). I liked the deep red.
Selma that's cool, thanks for reporting, I'll look it up.
Selma, why the LM4 and LM6? You can take them even if you have borrelia and not get some kind of homeopathic aggravation? I really want to know how they arrived at those two potencies as obviously the northeast is full of ticks. Thanks.
Posted by djf2005 (Member # 11449) on :
i think the expense is not much considering most of us that have been at this for awhile have already spent in excess of 100k. (i know i have....)
i plan on going as soon as i hear scott's report as i know it will be un biased and reliable.
cheers
derek
Posted by UnexpectedIlls (Member # 15144) on :
Djf== are you planning on going to germany??
I am waiting for more reports myself.. but considering it.
Posted by lymeparfait (Member # 14268) on :
Just booked my appointment with Dr. W. for my daughter and myself.
Going during Easter Break, 4/6/09 to 4/20.
anyone else going then?
lymeparfait
Posted by Brussels (Member # 13480) on :
Sorry guys, Gigi is right, I should have made another thread.
The link for the site was given by Gigi. It doesn't say much though.
Gigi, thanks for your deep and experienced view on the subject. I know other metals are still showing up (like barium and cobalt for me now), so I wonder if mercury will still show up one day.... I guess I understand what you mean with reaching different layers, from superficial to deeper ones....
I'm also 'healthier' now than when with active lyme, and my daughter has no lyme for more than a year, so... we could be easier examples for detoxing metals.
but anyway, Photon WAve is much more efficient (when used with metal nosodes) than the slow oral chelation we did for years. Mercury was always still testing for us both. Now it stopped testing (even if temporarily, but for me it's a step up, because I was almost giving up trying).
I would be VERY curious to see how you compare your tests to detox metals with the Bionic, Gigi.
I know it can easily be done energetically, and am EXTREMELY curious to see how the Bionic compare to Photon Wave in terms of efficacy (what tests best for what).
I know each case is a case, but I know you start to trust your energetic tests, so I'm very curious. I have lots of possibilities to be treated with the Photonwave close by, but less with the Bionic.
Photon Wave costs around 4500 euros, I think. The treatment cost depends on how much each practioner charges.
O2Babe, as for borrelia potencies LM4 or LM6, I don't think they do anything at all to lyme disease. So far, I never heard of anyone treating lyme with such high potencies of borrelia.
I never had any reaction to them and my lyme was still active (both chronic and newly infected). This lady swears it works well too. Before I only heard it through my lyme doctor. I know it works for me and family (and cats), by pure experience.
You still can get bitten, but I couldn't find borrelia in any of the ticks. The ticks that contaminated my daughter since we started with these nosodes had other critters but no borrelia (confirmed by S., the right hand of dr. K.).
It got once bart and something else, but no borrelia. This last one of this year got TBE though, but again, no borrelia. My daughter got out of both bites, bart only with light homeopathics, TBE with intensive treatment. But I do wonder what our lives would have been today if she had caught borrelia together as she caught first time...
As most ticks are contaminated with borrelia, well,you get bitten by very fewer ticks after taking these nosodes, I can assure you. The cost is ridiculous, it's about 25 dollars that will last few years.
What I'm thinking to do is to continue this detoxing with the Photon Wave, and who knows, still get to do the Bionic sometime next year.
Then I will know if the Photon Wave did the job of eliminating both metals and hidden borrelia, or not. If dr. W. still finds it, it means PWave did it to a certain extent, but not thoroughly.
Anyway, I guess Gigi is right again, that a sick body maybe won't take in the light through eyes as well as a healthier body. I did all MFT tapping while looking at the light, just by intuition.
I won't steal this thread anymore. I just passed very close to Pforzheim through the Autobahn from Belgium yesterday and thought about you guys around.
I guess, a combination of both treatments is not out of question either (before or after using the Bionic).
Good luck to you guys coming here, please keep your experiences posted.
Posted by Cass A (Member # 11134) on :
Dear Friends,
Here's the content of an email message to me this month from the manufacturer of the Bionic 880 about the price difference between keeping it in Europe and taking it back to the US.
Please find attached a Broshures of Bionic 880 and the treatment advise for Lyme diseas according to doctor med. Woitzel.
In the time being many lyme patient are coming to Germany for treatment and consulting. On their way home they take a Bionic 880 with to continue their treatment. The standard price for the Bionic 880 is EUR 6,400.00 CIF destination. For those person who come to Germany for consultation and treatment the price is USD 5,800.00 only.
If you have any further questions please do not hesitate to contact us.
With best regards
H. Buschk�hl GmbH
Buschk�hl Managing Director
Posted by northstar (Member # 7911) on :
Tuesday, October 21, 2008
5,800.00 Euro = 7,782.44 US Dollar 6,400.00 Euro = 8,587.52 US Dollar
Posted by Alv (Member # 15192) on :
The price is USD 5,800.00 only??????
Are you sure he is saying USD 5,800.00 ?I have heard people mentioning EURO 5,800.00 .
Posted by northstar (Member # 7911) on :
Alv, you are right..it does say 5,800 USD..... Wow!Big price difference! N/
Posted by Cass A (Member # 11134) on :
Dear Friends,
The head of the firm said what he said! I was pleasantly surprised also!
If you USE IT or KEEP IT in Europe, you have to pay the Value Added Tax, which is very large. If you're exporting it, you don't have to pay the tax, as long as you get it directly from the manufacturer and it's taken directly out of the area (won't bee used in Europe).
If you buy it from someone who has paid the tax, they will, of course, pass it on to you.
Hope this helps!
Best,
Cass A
Posted by GiGi (Member # 259) on :
Fivethousandeighthundred is in Euros. Not US Dollars. It is a mistake I am sure. Better check with Buschkuehl Co. to make sure.
Only if you take it out and get a custom office export stamp at the airport before you leave is the VAT tax of 19% taken off the price. That is the law of the land.
For purchases in the country to be used in the country the price is Euro 6,400 plus 19%.
They reduced the price to Euro 5,800. for people going over and being treated by Dr. W. to ease the pain a bit. I am not sure how long -- it is for right now -
I called Mr. Buschkuehl for a friend for ex-cancer-tumor patient who is considering the Bionic for after cancer care. It is working well for keeping cells healthy.
Take care.
Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
The problem I have is not with discussion but with judgments - ie people who support this are making money off it. That's all I'll say on that topic.
I am without painkillers now since the day of my first treatment, and I don't need them. I still have a little pain, but nothing like what I was having prior to coming here.
Steel, Willow and I are having busy day after busy day. We do not just sit around our apt all day. So, we have pretty good energy. We do still get tired as Lymies do, but I see a huge improvement in that area as well.
Remember, we've only had TWO treatments!!! Today is treatment number three, so you can check my blog later tonight or tomorrow.
I see promise in this treatment and no danger ... all it is is shining a light on various points while nosodes and borrelia vials are taped to your solar plexus. Seems too simple to be true.
If I do get well from this, I will come back every couple months to give an update. If I get well from this, I won't be able to stick around and answer questions about abx treatment because I will believe in this treatment ..... so we'll see how it goes. So far, so good.
If Willow or Steel have anything noticeably different than I do, I'll post that in my blog. We all three still get some fatigue, but not that disabling fatigue .... we all three get some pains, but not as bad. Remember, we're not even halfway through treatment yet.
Posted by Annxyz (Member # 9097) on :
sixkids ,
I so thank you for the update ! We are hanging on every word you post , believe me. I have been on ABX three years and see no real hope with them . I think they are causing many problems for me, so I hope this will make a lasting difference for you , and give us all a reason to hope.
Posted by Angelica (Member # 15601) on :
Thank you six! We love hearing your reports. It gives many of us hope.
Posted by UnexpectedIlls (Member # 15144) on :
gigi, I was wondering if there was anyway I could ask you a question privately... please???
Thank you
Posted by brite7 (Member # 16245) on :
Thanks Gigi, for taking the time to respond in such detail to my question. I agree with what you are saying, I'm not sure if I can afford to take care of my dental work and go to Germany though...
Posted by Angelica (Member # 15601) on :
Unexpected search this thread and others. Gigi posts her email address so people can contact her.
I can see why she does not allow PM's I have received a couple of strange ones here myself but many more positive ones.
Posted by Cass A (Member # 11134) on :
Dear Friends,
After GiGi questioned the data I had on the price of the Bionic 880, I emailed the representative at the company again. His previous email was incorrect--it should have been EURO 5,800 not USD 5,800.
The full text of his reply is below.
Best,
Cass A
The price for the Bionic 880 is EUR 6,400,00 if we ship to Canada and other countries exl. USA. For patient who come to Germany and pick up a system, they pay EUR 5,800,00plus 19% VAT
The VAT will be paid back at the airport by customs before you leave Germany.
I hope you are well informed
Mit freundlichen Gr��en
Heinrich Buschk�hl
Managing Director / Gesch�ftsf�hrer
Posted by GiGi (Member # 259) on :
Unexpected,
quote:
posted 21 October, 2008 02:44 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- gigi, I was wondering if there was anyway I could ask you a question privately... please???
I do not use the PM feature because I have to get on Lymenet to read my mail, and I have no time to do that.
If anyone e-mails me, please identify yourself clearly - giving me a clue that you are from Lymenet. I get some very strange mail that I cannot identify and I simply send it to SPAM or delete it. I do not open it unless you give me some reference. Ahmet sent me a couple that I did not recognize and I sent him to SPAM too - poor guy! I finally caught it.
Will be looking for your mail, Unexpected.
Take care.
Posted by sunshinyday (Member # 14337) on :
I am very interested in going next year. I am looking forward to sixs and Pauls reports.
Posted by heiwalove (Member # 6467) on :
hi GiGi,
i recently sent you an email with questions about the bionic. please let me know if you didn't receive it and i will resend the message.
thanks very much.
~heather.
Posted by GiGi (Member # 259) on :
Hi Heather, yes, I received it, and you are on my mind and of course I will answer
And I have a few others also on my mind that I have not answered. So please be patient - I promise to respond.
Take care.
Posted by lymeparfait (Member # 14268) on :
Anyone going in April?
LP
Posted by nyjohn (Member # 15361) on :
i'm wondering who is headed there in late january/early february.... please zap me a pm if you can. thanks
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