My LLMD decided to take me off zith and give rifampin for 2 months, 300 mg 2 x day.
The major symptoms I have left are:
stiff neck/soreness daily bottoms of feet/ankles hurt on an off lymph nodes in armpits slightly sore occasional vision difficulties minor joint pains/weakness occasional heart thuds fatigue
I asked her about biofilms. She gave me a supplement called "Bromelain" by Pure which is an enzyme of some sort that she said helps to break the biofilm. You take it on an empty stomach.
Its actually derived pineapple stems. Has anyone heard of this? Is this a waste of money?
I did a search on Rifampin, and looks and sounds disgusting. Posted by maureen2174 (Member # 11471) on :
aren't you supposed to take rifampin with another abx.? I am not sure, but I thought I remember reading this.
I have heard of bromelain being used for hypercoagulation, but not sure about it breaking up biofilms.
I think I just read a post about monolaurin and oregano oil used to break up biofilms (if I understand it correctly) It was a recent post on here.
I was actually just now going to post asking what oregano oil is recommended for this.
I do think bromelain works pretty well for hypercoagulation, so I don't think it was a waste, but not sure about it being effective for breaking up biofilms.
i am sure others will chime in about this....
i'll be looking for the responses as well.
are you still seeing the same llmd (we have the same one, but I haven't seen her since april/may).
Posted by gemofnj (Member # 15551) on :
maureen,
yes. still seeing the same one.
i agree about the combo therapy, but i dont argue because i have improved, SLOWLY, and i cant argue much with that even tho i am on monotherapy. so, what do you think?
when i was at the health food store today i asked my guy about the bromelain, and he said he could see why she would use it for the biofilm thingy.
How do we know we HAVE biofilm anyway??? or does it just come with the lyme package?
Posted by mojo (Member # 9309) on :
I guess some Dr's use Rifampin alone. I would recommend Milk Thistle as I had to go off immediately due to my Liver Enzymes going sky high. For example one of my enzymes was 17, 18 and 18 the last few times and went to 748 after four weeks on Rifampin!!
Bromelein is a digestive enzyme that is also used to break up Fibrin in blood. Lumbrokinaise, also used for breaking down fibrin is said to get to the biofilms, as well. I've been wondering if the other "Fibrin Busters" affected the biofilms.
Posted by gemofnj (Member # 15551) on :
gosh mojo now i am worried. i was complaining about pain on my right side this last month, and we think its a grumpy gallbladder issue.
I am getting an ultrasound on 11/10.
i was concerned it was my liver, but she tests me every month to be sure of enzymes. i thought rifampin bypasses the liver and she took blood today to be sure before i go on the rifampin.
i guess not. can you tell me what signs to look for in the elevated liver enzymes? did you feel sick or anything??
i dont know how people take so much abx all the time and survive!! Posted by maureen2174 (Member # 11471) on :
i don't really disagree with the monotherapy. i was pretty much on monotherapy throughout my treatment. biaxin and plaquenil got me really far.
i just thought that rifampin specifically had to be taken with another abx. to avoid resistance.
this same llmd also prescribed rifampin for me alone (she told me to take cats claw with it, that she had great results with it).
i never did end up taking the rifampin because i decided that i wanted to stay on the biaxin/plaquenil at the time.
i would be curious what other people have to say about taking rifampin by itself.
i am glad to hear that you are improving...
Posted by gemofnj (Member # 15551) on :
she did say to take cats claw now that you mention it. DUH.. lyme brain.
not sure if cat's claw qualifies as an abx though.
i can only take like 1 in the a.m. because it keeps me awake at nite. after that, if see if that works i will add another.
most people say monotherapy is not good, and its even in Dr. B's guidelines to always treat with a combo.. but i guess some doctors have their own systems.
i did improve without overstressing my system, but i wasnt riddled with really debilitating symtoms either. maybe im not sick enough for combo therapy??
maureen, how are you feeling?? are you winding down your treatment since you have not been to the doctor since May?
Posted by maureen2174 (Member # 11471) on :
I don't think the cats claw qualifies as an abx. but like i said, she did say that she had really good luck treating with rifampin/cats claw.
now i remember one of the reasons i didn't start rifampin was also because i was in my friend's wedding and i read that one of the side effects was turning contacts orange or yellow (i forget) and i remember thinking that i didn't want to have to wear my glasses, so i figured i hold off on the rifampin.
i am actually just taking a break because at some point i am hoping i will be well enough to try to get pregnant and at that point i'll go back on abx before conceiving.
i got to 95% for awhile and decided to go off abx. to give myself a break, see what symptoms would be remaining,etc. I figured I could always go back on them if I had to right away.
i am mainly just rifing now. i want to see a holistic doctor as well.
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
. . . Bromelain is the general name for a group of proteolytic enzymes derived from pineapple stems.
Through its action on the blood-clotting-related substances fibrinogen and fibrin, bromelain stimulates the production and release of anti-inflammatory prostaglandins (PGs), while simultaneously reducing the production and release of pro-inflammatory PGs.[3,4] . . . .
-
Posted by catalysT (Member # 10786) on :
I've been taking bromelain for a while now. I take a half tab with meals to digest protein, and a whole tab on an empty stomach, sometimes with serrapeptase to help with inflammation and hopefully break up bio-film. I take 2000GDU tablets by NOW Foods. Cheap at iherb ($14.27 for 180x500mg 2,000 GDU tablets). A lot of brands are just too expensive.
Oh, there are also studies that show when bromelain is taken WITH the antibiotic, it potentiates it (and also increases absorption)! If you go to pubmed.com and type in 'bromelain antibiotics' you will see quite a few titles of studies, unfortunately almost all of them are foreign and offer no abstract. Although I'm sure that I've read some before somewhere.
Cool stuff, I like it. Helps clear the sinuses up if taken on empty stomach too.
Posted by gemofnj (Member # 15551) on :
Maureen,
Oh, I do hope the best for you!!
Have any of your symptoms returned while off abx?
Not quite sure what rifing is.. I'd love to hear how it works. Is it a heat machine?
Posted by mojo (Member # 9309) on :
Google "Rife for Lyme" or "Royal Rife" for fascinating information on Rifing.
It's a "zapping" machine that kills spirochettes and other germs.
I used it for the first time last week end and got a herx. It wasn't too bad of a herx as I am starting slow per the instruction manual. My sister has been rifing for a couple of months now and she herxes every time. She rifes for Lyme, Candida, parasites, Bart, Erlichiosis and for Lymph Drainage.
I think it's very effective.
Posted by gemofnj (Member # 15551) on :
Keeb thanks for the link. LLMD did also say it was good as an anti-inflammatory--forgot that part. So, I guess its a good supplement.
Cat, thats a great explanation. She didnt say how many to take and it says on the bottle, 1x a day & its 500 mg. I guess I could start out with one and go up.
Posted by Angelica (Member # 15601) on :
I take it by Pure Encapsulations too. wellnessworks.net has good prices on Pure E. if you buy over $200. worth of products from them which is sadly easy for lymies they give you 20% off.
How much and how often did your LLMD say to take it? I never knew it worked for biofilms. I was taking it for digestion and my sinuses.
*************************
Bromelain
Bromelain by Ray Sahelian, M.D. Bromelain supplement benefit and side effects
Bromelain is an enzyme found in pineapples. Bromelain is present in all parts of the pineapple plant but the highest concentration is found in the stem.
Bromelain is a combination of several protein-digesting enzymes along with peroxidase, acid phosphatase, protease inhibitors, and calcium.
Bromelain is most often used to help digestion and help reduce inflammation. Bromelain may also have anti-viral and immune influencing properties.
It can enhance your antibiotics so check with your MD before taking it.
Good for sinus problems too. Is reported to thin your blood as well.
Posted by mojo (Member # 9309) on :
gemofnj - Sorry I missed your Liver question the first time!
I did get very very sick in October when I was on the Rifampin. I kept getting sicker everyday - it felt like a herx (and some of it probably was). I had headaches, stomach issues and overall flu like symptoms, weakness and fagitue. And Liver pain but I have some of that when my enzymes are fine (right where my gallbladder used to be).
It sounds like your doctor recently checked your enzymes??
On the flip side - I felt the Rifampin hit some of my worst symptoms which are now back - so I really wish I could have stayed on it. Many people are able to stay on it so you may be OK. I would just be very aware of your symptoms and perhaps take Milk Thistle as a precaution. LiverCare by Himalaya is a good product, too.
I was also on Biaxin but learned that some Dr's go with just the Rifampin - mainly due to the effect can have on the Liver, I'm told.
good luck and take good care.
Posted by gemofnj (Member # 15551) on :
Thanks guys for all of your responses.
Its really scaring when changing meds and comforting to hear others' experiences -- takes some of the fear away.
Gem
Posted by treepatrol (Member # 4117) on :
quote:Originally posted by maureen2174: aren't you supposed to take rifampin with another abx.? I am not sure, but I thought I remember reading this.
april/may).
Yes you are to take rifampin with another abx. I had it with Minocin then later also with Biaxin XL.
![[Frown]](frown.gif)
![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
![[group hug]](graemlins/grouphug.gif)
Gem