A friend's daughter was bit by a tick last week. They pulled of a tick on Wednesday, but believe it may have been less than 24 hours. I know there is some debate over whether or not it must be attached for 24+ hours.
They took her to the doctor who basically said there is nothing they could do since she has no symtoms. That makes me so angry when we all know symptoms can take weeks or months to appear! This is well documented! So, the poor girl could have the Borrelia bacteria and the doctors won't even give a preventative antibiotic just in case. He said to call him if she developes a fever, etc. Ugh! They also said they would test her blood.
When are these doctors going to understand the INNACURACY of these tests! Even infectious disease text books state this is a clinical diagnosis, not a blood test diagnosis. What about various strains that are not tested? What if the immune system is not producing antibodies at the time of the test, sometimes the lab may not have the correct strain to test, depends on who is doing the testing, plus the CDC leaves out some important bands on the test! Lets not forget about co-infecitons.
Finding a local doc to give a preventative course of abx is difficult although my father and sister in law were given this when they found ticks on themselves. Then my father started developing symptoms months later and they gave him another course.
Anyway, I gave my friends the name of a PA doctor not far from us who is very knowledgable in the treatment of Lyme so I hope this goes well and is done shortly.
Thoughts, advice?
Rich
Posted by Geneal (Member # 10375) on :
Any testing now is a waste of time for sure.
I would have insisted on antibiotics or kept searching until
I found a doc who knew something about Lyme.
Maybe they can call the doc back and tell them
The child is spiking temps, but only at night.
Maybe that can get some antibiotics on board until
They can get with a better doc.
You've done the best you can.
While I hope you don't think I am advocating for lying,
If it were my child, I would stop at nothing
To prevent or treat him/her.
Hugs,
Geneal
Posted by MY3BOYS (Member # 17830) on :
labs tests will not help her in the slightest right now. antibodys dont show up right away
glad you were able to give them name of another dr and educated the parents on the risk
hoping you crossing their path on this leads them to shed some more light on these infections
Posted by 'Kete-tracker (Member # 17189) on :
richedie, "Nothing they could do" as she "has no symptoms"? Wow. I THINK I recall reading that a course of "prophylactic antibiotics" are recommended by the CDC, even IF there are no current symptoms OR rash (erythema migrans), IF...
the person was bitten by a Deer tick (Black-legged tick on West coast) in a KNOWN Lyme-endemic area AND the length of attachment COULD have been about a day or longer, AND/OR the tick was found to be significantly engorged (dug in & filling/filled w/ blood).
As I've said before, I came down with a serious case of acute Lyme afer having TWO adult, male deer ticks on me for 19-20 hours; from between 11AM & noon Friday morning (the hour I was outside clearing brush) until exactly 7AM Saturday morning when I discoverd them as mysterious little "scabs" on me, upon waking & streching.
It took me 20 MINUTES to pry ONE of them outa me. It was doing a headstand on my belly. (Yes- it was definitely engorged.) I didn't know the danger at the time & just kept looking for rash or other symptoms. NONE as I recall. But it hit full force 4 mo.s later, after they'd already had my thyroid for lunch. Over 15 months on oral abx & it's still there in the background.
If you're in Pennsylvania, you ARE in Lyme-endemic territory! But a lot depends on how well the tick had gotten under her skin. If it was horizontal & relatively easy to take off, the danger is far less.
I find the docs like to see the tick in question. A pic of the critter before removal is great, too!
Posted by richedie (Member # 14689) on :
She was able to remove the tick easily...it almost whiped right off with a wash cloth. She saved the tick but the doctor said it does them no good to see or test the tick.
Posted by TerryK (Member # 8552) on :
Truthfinder recently posted about homeopathics that can be used after a bite. Homeopathic remedies can be very effective. Could only get a preview page on tinyurl so you have to click through again once you get to tinyurl. http://preview.tinyurl.com/c4akm2
I think Buhner also has some info in his book about herbs that can be used after a bite.
If they have the tick, they should send it in for testing.
I hope she gets treatment soon.
Terry
Posted by 'Kete-tracker (Member # 17189) on :
Very odd an MD would say that. The docs up here like to positively identify the critter.
I know a tick can be sent for testing at any of several labs right here in New England (except, unfortunately, NH, but I intend to get our "guv'nuh" to change that when a group of us see him next month. )
The test uses the 'PCR' method to check for presence of Borrelia Burgdorferi. But there CAN occasionally be a "false negative" because of strain variations. (False +s on PCRs are very unusual) Additionally, by the time the results are in, the child should've already started on an antibiotic for best effectiveness in thwarting any early infection.
Also, be Aware of co-infecions which can also be carried by the same tick. Some can cause high fever & chills. (Ehrlichia, which can be fatal if left untreated in children, is an example.)
It sounds like the risk is relatively low here if the tick "almost wiped right off", but I'd let that PA doc [you originally mentioned] interview the child & "attending parent", and examine said bite, to make the final call... if they're up for it. Better safe than sorry!
Glad YOU are improving. Doxy & Biaxin are 2 big guns for Lyme.
Posted by disturbedme (Member # 12346) on :
"Nothing they could do" as she "has no symptoms"?
This is so ridiculous, and it's sad how many doctors say this crap. By the time he/she does show symptoms, it's too late. My husband said it's like going to the doctor and telling them you drank poison and they say "Come back when you have symptoms...." but by that time it's way too late.
Posted by richedie (Member # 14689) on :
Well, about three weeks later and symptoms are starting. She now is being taken out of school for stiff necks and pain! She went back to the doctor and the doc said...lets give it thirty days and a blood test. WTF!
Posted by Dekrator48 (Member # 18239) on :
Oh no, that is horrible!
I hope they are getting her to a LLMD fast!
How old is she? I hope her parents are taking this seriously now.
Do they understand that the bacteria has disseminated through her body and she will he chronically ill?
Posted by nenet (Member # 13174) on :
Stiff neck means it's now late-stage disseminated Lyme.
Nice going, "Doctor".
And still no evaluation by an actual expert for coinfections, or even proper dosing of antibiotics I am sure.
Poor, poor child. Poor parents.
I know it's not the Doctor's fault since they are GPs with HMOs breathing down their necks and have to defer to specialists for anything beyond minor things. So they knee-jerk treat to the authorities and the guidelines, but they are the front lines. I am so upset each time I hear of this kind of scenario, which is all the time.
Can you try to get them to have that child seen by a Lyme and coinfections specialist?
Posted by richedie (Member # 14689) on :
I am trying to get them to get her to an LLMD but they said the money stops them. So, they are sticking to the local GPs, etc. I am trying to find someone who takes insurance to help.
She is 3 and such a nice little girl. Kills me! So innocent.
Posted by ICEiam (Member # 7519) on :
MONEY??? When your 3 year old is in danger of never being able to live a normal life??? OH my Oh my. Don't they have anyone they can borrow money from to get her to a LLMD?
I will be praying for this little girl and her parents to get a clue. I know you can only say so much to people but........I am speechless.
Posted by lymephobic (Member # 17556) on :
When my daughter (at the time 5) had a tick attached to heer head I didn't know it. I took her to a pedatrician who was covering for our normal one.
She was complaining that her neck hurt and her nodes in her neck were really swollen. I also didn't know about lyme like I do now...Out of fear and the area I live I knew enough that I wanted her treated.
The ped. said she would test the tick and take it from there.
The next day I went to another pediatrition. He took a more proactive approach and I left with a month of amox for her.
As it turns out the only test that was run on that tic was the species of tick. I found all this out after looking back at the records after my own diagnisis.
One thing I do remember about the first doc was that she said when she pulled the tick off my daughter..."It looks like a lone star tick and they don't transmit lyme"
This was almost 5 years ago and my daughter is doing fine. She may not have actually contracted lyme, but I wasn't taking any chances.
I keep an eye on her obviously, but thank God...so far so good. I've spoken to my LLMD about this and she said at the first symptom...bring her in.
If your friend can get to the Monmouth County area in NJ I will give you the name of the pediatrition I saw. He was extremely helpful and didn't question me one bit when I said I wanted a second opinion.
He never saw the tick, couldn't see a rash (because of her hair)and didn't see any tests...however he treated her anyway.
Posted by richedie (Member # 14689) on :
Where is Monmouth County in NJ? How far from King of Prussia, PA? Thanks!
Their current doctor said it was an adult tick and they do not transmit disease.
Posted by lymephobic (Member # 17556) on :
Monmouth County is central/south jersey. I am pretty far south in Monmouth.
Just checked google maps...says 1 hour 18 minutes and appears to be a straight ride east.
Posted by lymephobic (Member # 17556) on :
He is not an LLMD and I believe he takes most insurance.
He was very willing to listen and I also recall asking him to test her and he said to wait until after the antibiotics because he wanted her to get on them right away.
She did test negative, but as we know...that doesn't mean much.
Posted by richedie (Member # 14689) on :
Thanks for all the info. I am betting they will want to see the doctor who is closest so I'll have to see if the ones in PA are actually closer than Monmouth County, NJ.
Posted by richedie (Member # 14689) on :
....well, they told me her symptoms have gone away so they are not worried right now. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink.
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