i know they say it can infect every system...but has anyone been dx with lyme in the lungs or had a pso biopsy or something...or have they found it at autopsy?
Posted by bettyg (Member # 6147) on :
good question with no answers from me; but up we go for those who might know! Posted by kelmo (Member # 8797) on :
I don't know what's causing my lung problems, but that's where I'm most affected. All it shows on an x-ray is that I have scarring.
Posted by lpkayak (Member # 5230) on :
up again
Posted by bettyg (Member # 6147) on :
maybe some of our RNs might know this; up for for RNS.
Posted by nenet (Member # 13174) on :
If you want a collection of good studies culled from the bad (eg. absurd studies "ruling out" previously positive Lyme as causal agent of Lung symptoms, with the use of later-applied ELISA test), it would take me a while, but if I have the energy and someone requests it I will try my best .
The very informative and helpful Lyme book by LDA Cofounder Karen Voanderhoof-Forschner ("Everything You Need to Know About Lyme Disease and Other Tick-Borne Disorders") states that Lyme can be involved in the lungs and lung ailments (breathing problems, pneumonia, etc.), on pages 5 and 64.
Posted by nenet (Member # 13174) on :
I haven't been able to read through this but this overview from the Medical Journal CHEST ("For Specialists in: Pulmonology, Critical Care, Sleep Medicine, Thoracic Surgery, Cardiorespiratory Interactions, and related disciplines") goes over Tick Borne pathogens including Lyme, in relation to Lung ailments.
nenet-thank you very much-don't stress yourself-this is enough for me-i just hadn't heard it before-or didin't remember cuz i have karins book-thank you for your time-i'm in the same boat-can't do too much now
Posted by lpkayak (Member # 5230) on :
i thought i'd put this here in case anyone searches:
(its old but probably still relevant...except for the vaccine part)
sounds like the tx is just good lyme tx
Tick-Borne Pulmonary Disease* Update on Diagnosis and Management John L. Faul, MD, Ramona L. Doyle, MD, FCCP, Peter N. Kao, MD, and Stephen J. Ruoss, MD +Author Affiliations
*From the Division of Pulmonary and Critical Care Medicine, Stanford University Medical Center, Palo Alto, CA. Abstract Ticks are capable of transmitting viruses, bacteria, protozoa, and rickettsiae to man. Several of these tick-borne pathogens can lead to pulmonary disease. Characteristic clinical features, such as erythema migrans in Lyme disease, or spotted rash in a spotted fever group disease, may serve as important diagnostic clues. Successful management of tick-borne diseases depends on a high index of suspicion and recognition of their clinical features. Patients at risk for tick bites may be coinfected with two or more tick-borne pathogens. A Lyme vaccine has recently become available for use in the United States. Disease prevention depends on the avoidance of tick bites. When patients present with respiratory symptoms and a history of a recent tick bite or a characteristic skin rash, a differential diagnosis of a tick-borne pulmonary disease should be considered. Early diagnosis and appropriate antibiotic therapy for these disorders lead to greatly improved outcomes.
Posted by lpkayak (Member # 5230) on :
the following are exerps i found interesting form this article:
Three cases of Lyme disease associated with encephalopathy and nocturnal hypoventilation or prolonged central apnea have been reported. In these cases, tracheotomy and prolonged ventilatory support were required because of abnormal central respiratory disturbances.28
In stage 2 Lyme disease, patients may complain of shortness of breath due to cardiac involvement or phrenic nerve palsy. We have recently described a case in which diaphragmatic paralysis due to Lyme disease was successfully treated with tetracycline antibiotics.
Lyme disease may even cause chronic congestive cardiomyopathy, with resultant shortness of breath and exercise intolerance.
No respiratory complications have been reported in patients with stage 3 Lyme disease (ie, chronic arthritis, dermatitis, CNS involvement).
Lyme disease is an important cause of neurologic morbidity because it is preventable and reversible with appropriate antibiotic therapy. Oral tetracycline antibiotics are the treatments of choice for all stages of Lyme disease.45 In a controlled study of disseminated Lyme disease, IV ceftriaxone (2 g daily for 2 weeks) and oral doxycycline (100 mg twice daily for 3 weeks) showed similar clinical cure rates at 9 months (85% and 88%, respectively).44 IV ceftriaxone is currently recommended for patients with meningitis or encephalopathy because of its better penetration into cerebrospinal fluid.42 However, for most patients with Lyme disease, IV therapy appears to be no more effective than oral therapy.
Posted by AliG (Member # 9734) on :
Have coinfections of Tularemia, RMSF & Ehrlichiosis been ruled out?
This was written in 1999. I wonder if they've found any more coinfections, possibly other Spotted-Fever group Rickettsia that might infect the lungs.
Posted by lymie tony z (Member # 5130) on :
Let's put it this way.
When I received my very first IV of Ceftriaxone, way back in 99.
Towards the end of my first month of infusing. I developed,lung problems...
complete with fever, a deep congested cough. that actually hurt my stomach and sides.
I coughed so much, and with such strain, I thought I might cause a hernia!
Now, when I was admitted, into a hospital at Fairview, near Cleveland Ohio.
I was told I had either, pneumonia or bronchitis!
TWO DUCKS, still couldn't decide, if, what I had been suffering from,
should be, diagnosed with, was, "Pneumonia or Bronchitis", but they promptly put me on IV levaquin.
Gee, Which also happens to do well against Bb!
This, and the inhaler therapy, after a couple of days in the hospital, resolved my issues.
However, neither duck, would diagnose me definitively.
Obviously, to me anyway, it was something they had never seen, prior to my admittance!
Nothing was ever discovered either!
I think,
they were looking for some form of virus, because, I was infusing,
ceftriaxone,
at the time. which is a great antibiotic for bacterial infections.
However, it should, never, work on any Virus...,
causeative agents, of viral infections,
which are the "caustive ageants",
in many of the diseases of the lungs, humans may suffer from!
Too Bad, they never did diagnose me, one way or the other...as far as I knew!
My theory is that,
It wasn't either one. It was a mutant form of lung dammage,
caused by the spread of the spirochetes.
Bb either got annoyed at being killed and was making me herx in my lungs....or
The Bb, woke up another viral form of pathogen I might have been,
exposed to in my life and had developed antibodies for it, like tuberculosis!
If I, could have told, the two ducks that were still scratching their heads.
Still unsure of the diagnosis. Still wondering, if it looked like,
pneumonia or bronchitis or just a,
silly little, strain or species of something they either,honestly,
knew nothing about or were told not to find!
Goog GAWD! A Spirochete in the lungs acting like a VIRUS?
I may have, been able to save, some other patients, in this same scenario,
and told them, just what to do, before or when,
they ever got out of a hospital, with the same symptoms. That it might just be a possibility that,
there is a different, species of spirochete,causeing a herx in the lungs while on IV ceftriaxone,/ or a coinfection or an awakened virus,
That attacks the lungs,
... that might have caused the viral "like" pneumonia/"like", symptoms.
Or it could have, easily, ran accross,
what will later be, a brand new invader,
perhaps even an awakening, of the, tuberculosis strain or strains,
any one of us, may have ever, run accross!
Just a theory! IMHO
zman
Posted by TNJanet (Member # 10031) on :
I developed (obvious -no longer could ignore) shortness of breath/air hunger with no coughing about 5 months ago. It had not occurred to me that this correlated with the beginning of my ABX treatment. I went to my PCP who gave me inhaler to try. No improvement.
Two x-rays 6 weeks apart showed "spots" on lungs. (Doc's words.) He then ordered CAT scan on lungs which basically concluded ground glass pulmonary opacities, aith appearance favoring atelectasis and scar/fibrosis.
I have been referred to a Pulmonologist who I am seeing today. When I am referred to a specialist, I never know how much to get into my Lyme history. I am to come to appt. 30 min. early to complete a comprehensive health history (HA!)
I have been very ill for over 13 years. I have been diagnosed with Lyme for about a year and treated for about 5 months. (LLMD told me to stop all ABX until next visit with him in June.) I also have had extreme liver problems (lab values and increase in size)
I have learned to HATE going to specialists over the years. They are so reluctant to associate Lyme with any problem in their focus area. Guess I'll get breathing machine and hopefully some medications which help with these symptoms.
Shortness of breath and air hunger for me have caused low oxygen saturation.....causing increased fatigue and much dizziness (more than my normal dizziness which was sort of fun)
I'll report back after Doc visit but just am wondering if others have air hunger and accept it as Lyme symptom, don't get it checked or treated. I ignored for a long time until it affected me severely.
Love and light...... Janet
Posted by dmc (Member # 5102) on :
My uncle's lungs kept filling w/fluid. A pul..ologist took some fluid out and tested it found lyme.
Did 4 weeks orals & was "cured" Died 3 months later. He was 76.
Posted by nenet (Member # 13174) on :
Janet,
It can be Lyme, or Babesiosis, or Human Granulocytic Ehrlichiosis (HGE), rickettsia, or other coinfections, or some or all of the above.
Did your LLMD evaluate and treat you for other coinfections along with your Lyme treatment?
Is there a way for them to do a biopsy safely, and test it for all of the possible coinfections that could cause this?
I believe another poster here was recently dealing with the ground-glass opacities - here is the thread:
"Has anyone ever had "ground glass nodules" in their lungs?"
1. Ryland P. Byrd, Jr., MD, FCCP and 2. Thomas M. Roy, MD, FCCP
+Author Affiliations
1. James H. Quillen College of Medicine East Tennessee State University Johnson City, TN
To the Editor:
We read with interest the recently published clinical review by Faul et al (July 1999)1 on tick-borne pulmonary disease. However, the authors stated that the sole causative agent of ehrlichiosis in the United States is the rickettsia Ehrlichia chaffeensis. It has recently been recognized that are at least two similar but distinct human diseases caused by Ehrlichia species in the United States.
Human monocytic ehrlichiosis is caused by E chaffeensis. Human granulocytic ehrlichiosis (HGE), first described in 1994, is caused by a species closely related to the Ehrlichia equi/phagocytophilia group.23 While the clinical presentation of these two forms of ehrlichiosis may be similar, HGE appears to be a more virulent illness. Our review on the respiratory manifestations of tick-borne disease failed to determine which form of ehrlichiosis is associated with pneumonia and respiratory failure.4
More recently, an additional ehrlichial species, Ehrlichia ewingii, has been identified to cause clinical disease that is indistinguishable from infection caused by E chaffeensis or the agent of HGE.5 Unfortunately, the clinical manifestations of these four patients from Missouri who were identified with this infection were not given in detail, so we could not determine from the article whether these patients had any respiratory manifestations from their rickettsial infection.
Thus, there now appears to be documentation of at least three separate ehrlichial infectious agents in the United States. Others may be recognized as technology allows better identification of these important emerging infections.
Posted by nenet (Member # 13174) on :
Here is the article the previous Letter to the Editor (posted above) refers to:
Full Free pdf of entire article - this is VERY informative:
Tick-Borne Pulmonary Disease - Update on Diagnosis and Management
Ticks are capable of transmitting viruses, bacteria, protozoa, and rickettsiae to man. Several of these tick-borne pathogens can lead to pulmonary disease. Characteristic clinical features, such as erythema migrans in Lyme disease, or spotted rash in a spotted fever group disease, may serve as important diagnostic clues.
Successful management of tick-borne diseases depends on a high index of suspicion and recognition of their clinical features. Patients at risk for tick bites may be coinfected with two or more tick-borne pathogens. A Lyme vaccine has recently become available for use in the United States. Disease prevention depends on the avoidance of tick bites.
When patients present with respiratory symptoms and a history of a recent tick bite or a characteristic skin rash, a differential diagnosis of a tick-borne pulmonary disease should be considered. Early diagnosis and appropriate antibiotic therapy for these disorders lead to greatly improved outcomes.
Posted by Marnie (Member # 773) on :
Bb locks onto plasminogen -> plasmin which it "cloaks" itself in which triggers MMP2 and MMP9 = elastase and collagenase respectfully.
Elastase breaks down elastin (lung)
Collagenase breaks down collagen.
COPD can happen in lyme.
"Clinical data and IL-1β concentrations were correlated with elastase activity (EA)."
IL1B is "bad news" from many respects.
Posted by MorningSong (Member # 19989) on :
Before starting IV Rocephin, I had breathing problems -- not shortness of breath, but like I was trying to breath but nothing was there. I went to the ER 3 times, received a chest x-ray, and was informed my oxygen levels were fine.
Since being on antibiotics, I thank God the breathing problems have cleared by 99%. I saw the LLMD 4 days ago and was tested for co-infections - waiting for results to come back.
Posted by Pinelady (Member # 18524) on :
I was diagnosed with histo per cat scan showing
ground glass nodules, one quite large and several
smaller. This was within 6 months of initial
symptoms appearing. I am suprised to find now
they are gone and lungs are clear. I also know a
fellow in town who was told he could have lung
cancer about the same time frame as mine. He is
all clear now. Is it that the Bb spreads all over
the body and then sets up house where it is most comfortable?
Posted by randibear (Member # 11290) on :
i always have a dry cough. i've had tons of x-rays -- nothing.
i just cough...
Posted by AndrewInCA (Member # 2010) on :
When I took my very first doses of Rocephin I went to the ER because I had trouble breathing.
It turned out not to be an allergic reaction. My LLMD thought it was due to Lyme in my lungs and I stayed on the Rocephin.
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