I want to do a 14 day herbal detox - that is also the title of the book I am using. I was wondering if there are any problems with herbs and antibiotics - I am on ceftin and clarythromycin.
Posted by seekhelp (Member # 15067) on :
That's s complicated question. Generally yes, but we sure could comment more if we knew which ones you mean. Posted by kgarrett (Member # 17420) on :
There are a couple of teas that I will make myself - I don't have the book on me right now in bed. I think I remember a few Licorice Root Ginger root Fennel Seed Fenugeek Burdock Root Nettle Marshmallow root When i have a book on me I will list the rest.
Posted by ukcarry (Member # 18147) on :
My liver enzymes were raised when on Doxy, Diflucan and Buhner herbs [but samento instead of cats claw].
I stopped the samento and the next test was clear: I have also read that some others have had this with samento and abx,
Carry
Posted by kgarrett (Member # 17420) on :
ok here is most of the rest of the list I am taking cat's claw per my doctor - it is hard to get into see him to ask about the herbs and he can be a little hard to get focused so that is why I am asking here (he is a great doc tho)
Burdock oregon grape dandelion root licorice root nettle peppermint red clover echinacea ginger root fenugreek fennel marshmallow cascara sagrada yellow dock aloe juice I also have a herbal bitters tonic
I think that is the most of it - thank you so much for any input you can give me.
Posted by ukcarry (Member # 18147) on :
I have taken dandelion, licorice, nettle. peppermint and fennel teas,and ginger from your list whilst on abx without problems.
Why not ask a herbalist? Steohen Buhner answers questions on the Ask an Expert section of Planetthrive.com ; he says that his herbal protocol can be taken alongside abx.
Posted by kgarrett (Member # 17420) on :
Thanks for the info. It looks like a great website - I'll join up and try to figure out how to ask there as well. If anyone has any other input from their experience of doctors that would be great.
Posted by kgarrett (Member # 17420) on :
just bumping this up to see if anyone knows of any herbs that are dangerous with antibiotics
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
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Of the herbs listed, I question cascara sagrada (if that what is used to move the bowels? If so, not good every day - I'm too tired to look it up but will come back later) and echinacea.
Echinacea may boost the immune system too much. There is Th1 and a Th2 split with immune system. In lyme, one of those is overworked and the other is not working too well. It's important not to further push the part that is already zapped out but rather to "feed" it gently. I have not learned yet all about that, though.
The other herbs all look good, but in a tea, you are not getting a standardized dose. And there are so many ingredients in that - some may be redundant. There is good general liver support but I don't know if that would specifically protect the liver during abx. NAC is best. Not an herb, but a supplement.
You also have some good adrenal support in the tea with licorice, but it can raise blood pressure and also actually push the adrenals for those who are fatigued. There are better adrenal herbs for lyme patients such as ashwagandha, Siberian Ginseng or Cordyceps. None of those will "wire" as licorice can do.
However, as soon as I say that I recall that one research says that licorice may be able to block the borrelia toxin. (The BioChemistry of Lyme - I'll post article in a post somewhere below). So, if licorice does "wire" one, there are some other things to include in the formula to balance that out.
This is where a LL ND is so very important to consult.
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Rather than this "14 day herbal detox" it would be much safer to follow the directions of some of the prominent LLMD/authors about how to best support the liver.
A "detox" can take out some of the medicines you are taking. And, it can be very harsh on the liver.
Fourteen days will be nothing as far as helping the liver. It's a day by day - hour by hour - thing that just goes along with lyme treatment but in a gentle fashion.
"Detox" is not an event. Support the liver so that it can best metabolize waste is the safest manner. It is best done specifically tailored for lyme patients.
In addition, avoiding tylenol or other things that are especially hard on the liver, is helpful, too.
If you can, it is best to work with a LL ND (naturopathic doctor) who is also a member of ILADS. There are a few around and here are two sites with some educational information just for lyme patients who are interested in incorporating herbal supplements - as part of their treatment. Acupuncture is also a fantastic tool.
She is an ILADS member and a ND (naturopathic physician), so she has knowledge of the unique nature of the spirochete and what is required but also knows all about supportive techniques.
. . . Individual variations in our cytochrome P40 enzymes help to demystify why there are so many variations in how we respond to drugs and herbs. . . .
- Full chapter at link above.
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There are hundreds of herbs that can help liver function. A couple dozen are discussed here:
The important thing to remember is that the liver is a hot (metabolically active) organ, and so tends to get congested and inflamed.
. . .
Protection
Turmeric root, wheat sprouts, schisandra berries, amla fruit, beet root and milk thistle seed are among the major sources of protective anti-oxidants for the liver cells, as are fruits that contain flavonoids, especially citrus fruits.
These should be used to prevent development of inflammatory disease, or for damage protection as in the case of persons taking strong chemical drugs or undergoing chemotherapy.
Deficiency
The liver can become weakened and deficient. If this is not corrected, it can lead to liver atrophy and depletion of glycogen stores, even hepatitis. Signs include fatigue, low blood pressure, hypoglycemia, dry eyes, headache, heat symptoms and irritability . . . .
Heat and Inflammation
To remove excess liver inflammation with heat signs or toxins . . . .
. . .
Pain
If there is liver inflammation with signs of pain and tension, use herbs that calm the liver and move the blood . . . .
If milk thistle is not on your plan, NAC might be considered:
This, from a protocol for Chlamydia Pneumonia (Cpn) which is a similar chronic stealth infection. This treatment protocol is also similar to that of chronic lyme.
This is what one of the protocol authors says about the power of NAC to help protet the liver:
. . . "Surprisingly, the only anti-chlamydial agent that did not cause hepatitis in some patients was NAC. In fact, NAC is recognized as being protective.
See attached references.
My conclusion is that NAC should be the first agent in an anti-chlamydial regimen and should be a constant part of the therapy for this protective effect, not to mention it's effect against elementary bodies.
BIOCHEMISTRY OF LYME DISEASE: BORRELIA BURGDORFERI SPIROCHETE / CYST
by Prof. Robert W. Bradford and Henry W. Allen
EXCERPT:
. . .
A discovery of great importance relating to a toxin produced by the causative agent of Lyme disease, Borrelia burgdorferi, has been linked to a similar toxin produced by the organism Clostridium botulinum (botulism).
. . . .
- Full article and great photos at link above.
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NOTE OF CAUTION: While this is an excellent article regarding the information about the spirochete/cyst, there is one serious caution with one of the treatments suggested: Bismuth.
Bismuth, in various forms or methods of use, can (and has been) fatal. So, cross that off your list. If you download the article, please copy and paste this note to top your page.
Reading - and learning - about the nature of this infection is invaluable. The authors offer much in that regard, I'd just wish they'd adequately cautioned bismuth.
Botulism (Latin, botulus, "sausage") also known as "Botulinus Intoxication," is a rare but serious paralytic illness caused by botulin toxin.
. . .
Paradoxically, antibiotics (especially aminoglycosides or clindamycin) may cause dramatic acceleration of paralysis as the affected bacteria release toxin.
. . . .
- Full article at link above
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Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
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A few links regarding SAFETY and INTERACTIONS with herbs and Rx:
Yes, cascara is a laxative. Personally, I don't think it's a good idea to use it unless just one day or two for near emergency. Certainly, it can pose problems to use every day.
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