Ive been wondering lately..I have primarily Neuro Lyme and also widespread pain ..but mostly concentrated in my neck/jaw area, shoulders..etc. I have terribly TMJ so much so that now my Jaw is completely out of alignment.
I have been on vicodin for 3 years now..and Im starting to wonder if that not a good thing..
Anyone have any suggestions on long term pain management that doesnt hurt the body??
Does vicodin hurt the body??
I take acetaminophen daily.
Im 24 and had lyme since 15..then again 3 years ago..relapse and reinfection within 3 mos of eachother..
what do you think??
Im also on a bunch of herbs and supps..eat a good diet with fruits veggies and fiber.
[ 05-11-2009, 05:42 PM: Message edited by: Thyme2heal ]
Posted by bettyg (Member # 6147) on :
anyone? on page 2
Posted by tickedoffjan (Member # 15944) on :
I wish that I had an answer for you. I do know that some people have had luck with lyrica and neurontin. Neither of these are opiates and thus not habit forming. I tried them but I did not notice a difference in my pain level.
I know that tylenol/acetominophen is hard on your liver and ironically the codeine is not nearly as harmful.
The one issue that you might have is that your body becomes tolerant to the amount that you use and then you might need to up the amount.
I wish you nothing but the best. Pain really sucks.
Posted by minneapolismom (Member # 16810) on :
My 27 year old daughter also has chronic pain issues. She is on vicodin and lyrica, but sought more relief.
We found (after many dead ends) a pain clinic, which put her on Fentanyl (not sure of spelling). It helps, but it is a narcotic, and therefore carefully monitored.
Helps some, hoping the dr. will put her on a higher dosage.
I cry for all of you lymies who are in this situation.
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
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Pain can be horrible. Sorry to not address that in a more cordial manner but I have only energy enough to cut and paste some information that I've collected over time. I do hope you can feel better soon, everyone.
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Acetaminophen (Tylenol) can be very damaging to the liver. Many lyme patients already have liver damage from lyme, itself. So, acetaminophen can stress the liver even further. And, that can perpetuate the pain.
Vicodin, itself, is ototoxic (causing damage to the ears &/or balance system). And, one problem is that damage can build up and may not be apparent for a while.
Lyme produces a lot of problems with the inner ear, so adding anything else can make it worse.
Of the herbs you are taking, are some of those liver support supplements? While that may not help a lot, it might help some.
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Do you have any ringing in your ears, sensitivity to sound or light, trouble hearing . . . any kind of vertigo or dizziness?
The LA Times is reporting that prolonged use of high dosages of Vicodin and similar prescription painkillers has been linked to hearing loss in at least 48 cases.
Doctors at the House Ear Institute (HEI) and other medical centers have verified that exceptionally high dosages of these medications for several months have caused sudden hearing loss.
One of the most commonly prescribed painkillers, Vicodin is effective against many different kinds of pains.
. . .
HEI doctors now believe that they saw their first case of Vicodin-induced hearing loss in 1993, although they didn't identify the cause at that time. They first reported Vicodin-related hearing loss incidents to the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) in 1999, and again last month.
Knoll Pharmaceutical Co., the makers of Vicodin, added a hearing loss warning to the drug's label in 2000, but it seems to have gone largely unnoticed. The FDA worked with the manufacturer on the wording of the warning.
They plan no additional action, because hearing loss seems to be a very rare side effect that occurs only when the drug is used inappropriately.
. . .
Doctors report that sudden and rapid hearing loss is normally the result of either autoimmune disease or medications like antibiotics or diuretics.
Steroids are often effective in stopping or reversing hearing loss related to autoimmune disease; terminating the offending medication is often similarly effective. Cases that don't fit either of these classic patterns should be examined for a possible Vicodin connection.
Vicodin is a combination of acetaminophen and hydrocodone and is also sold under the brand names Lorcet, Lortab and Hydrocet.
It is the combination of acetaminophen and hydrocodone that seems to cause hearing loss, though scientists don't yet know how.
- full article at link above.
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Please check out some of the links here so that you can protect your hearing. It's best to wear ear plugs when around noise - even the hairdryer or vacuum.
And, it's best to not use headphones, especially the in-ear pods as they can damage ear nerves that are compromised. In addition to the action of vicodin on the ear nerves, antibiotics can also lower the threshold at which hearing damage can occur.
Be sure to avoid loud environments and use hearing protection when in moderately noisy situations. Your ears affect every phase of your life - if one's ears are compromised, it's even hard to THINK or walk.
Topic: TINNITUS: Ringing Between The Ears; Vestibular, Balance, Hearing with compiled links
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Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
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MAGNESIUM can help relieve TMJ. What dose and what kind are you taking?
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Full body massage can also be very helpful to relieve pain as can good liver support. But, I think you also need specific cranial-sacral therapy with an expert who will also work with your jaw.
Look up the website for the UPLEDGER INSTITUTE and find a practitioner near you. Verify FIRST that they to GENTLE techniques - absolutely no "snap and crack" stuff on your neck - ever.
(I assume you are treating lyme and other infections as if they are the root, you must deal with all that in addition to pain-relief along the way.)_
Sleep is vital to help, as well. Corydalis is one herb that has a great history of helping relieve pain while not harming the liver as many medicines can do.
If the liver is overwhelmed, pain will be a result. And, with lyme, B-vitamins also can help the nerve fibers. More later about that.
Shixiao San, Jin Lingzi San, Liang Fu Wan, and Baishao Gancao Tang
by Subhuti Dharmananda, Ph.D., Director, Institute for Traditional Medicine, Portland, Oregon
excerpt:
. . . Corydalis is added "to increase the pain-relieving effects of this prescription."
To compare Shixiao San and Jin Lingzi San, it is helpful to examine two of the main ingredients. Yang Yifan (9) compares corydalis to trogopterus (wulingzhi):
Corydalis and trogopterus enter the liver and spleen meridians. Both are able to promote blood circulation and remove congealed blood. They are very effective for relieving pain.
Ingredients; Corydalis root, jujube seeds and Schisandra fruit.
Jujube is also called zizyphus. Schisandra is also spelled schizandra. Both can be searched at PubMed and at The One Earth Herbal Sourcebook ( http://oneearthherbs.squarespace.com )
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Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
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This book, by an ILADS member LLMD, holds great information about treatments options and support measures:
If you do consider medical marijuana, see if you can use a water pipe so your lungs are not hit with so much smoke.
There are other ways to get it, too, by putting it in butter, etc.
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Posted by Toppers (Member # 20083) on :
Or a vaporizer.
Posted by jt345 (Member # 19638) on :
Hi
Make sure You take care of Your stomach and lower trac. Eat alot of fiber,and For Me I try too use the meds in as small of a dose I can.
Over time Your body will build up a tolerence to them.
I really don't have any gaums with the pot thing ,I have seen on the board as of late. The only things that bother Me are it is not federally legal anywhere,if smoked.And imo,it adds fuel too the flame,of the reality of chroinc lyme. (sorry toppers).
I really do think it would be tolerated if the use was advocated in a more medicial use manner.
Sometimes the use of street terms and the almost implied joy of using it,almost makes it sound that the pain is a good excuse too smoke. Even thou I do not think this is the case here.
appleseed
Posted by Thyme2heal (Member # 15767) on :
I didnt know about the med. marijuana in this state! Thats something to look into
I have done that in the past to get some relief but am hesitant to do that while having to work still.
Im just not sure about the pain pill issue cause it bothers me to not be able to deal without some form of pain medication.
I am already on wellbutrin Xl for depression motavation and such..
I just want to be healthy.. a friend of mine saw my pills and questioned me and now I have been questioning myself..
I dont know..it seems like a catch 22. Go without the pain meds..potentially not be able to function efficently to hold 2 jobs and support myself and loose everything.
or take these pills for an indefinate amount of time.
I just struggle with being on meds as someone who has always preferred the natural approach and herbs and supps.
would i be considered a drug addict? or dependent? is that something to be ashamed of? would it be any different if i was using the mj instead daily??
Im just young and alone dealing with all these uncertainies with this disease and not having a lot of people to talk with about some sensitive issues for me.
Thanks to all! Much Love and respect to all who suffer with this illness.
Posted by soleil16 (Member # 16326) on :
I too am young and in a lot of pain. I waited until my pain was 10/10 before accepting that I need something to help manage it.
Not many paid meds work very well for me, but I take what I can that makes going to work tolerable but also so that I'm not too foggy.
I also would rather not take all this stuff, but for now it's how I survive. I can't stay home and not work- I would be even more depressed and in more pain.
So I figure I'll take my meds for now, and as I heal won't need as much. I consider it temporary.
Others might think your medicine cabinet looks like overkill, but given one hour in your body, they'd understand that you do what is necessary.
Posted by Tif (Member # 12701) on :
I have been through treatment for TMJ with a pretty renowned specialist. There are a few things you can do. If you don't have one, get or make a bite splint. You can make one out of those boil in bag mouthpieces.......wear it as often as you can, but expecially when you sleep.
The magnesium will help; take it.
Also, benzo's are proven to help a lot with jaw pain, the muscle relaxing properties do wonders for the facial muscles. Mine was severe enough I was on a liquid diet for well over 6 months, and although I did have an extensive treatment, these things were vital to my recovery.
Posted by Kreynolds (Member # 15117) on :
Many many doctors ago would not treat my Lyme and Co's and pushed it off as "Post Lyme Syndrome".
Needless to say he was always ready with his pad to write out a drug to MASK pain.
I have always felt that masking the problem will get you no where.
Yes, most everyone with Lyme needs some sort of relief from pain and get some pain meds, but should not be considered as the only alternative.
The PROBLEM has to be fixed ALONG with pain management.
There is an old saying about a village in the Amazon:
For many days they had noticed the stream was getting weaker and weaker....
They did everything they could do to make the stream faster, they dug deeper into the mud, they widened the stream, but soon the water from the mountain ran out and the stream stopped flowing.
The tribe FINALLY realized that by not looking at the bigger picture and fixing what was in front of them caused the water to stop flowing.
One of the tribes men looked up at the mountain, climbed it and found a large boulder in the middle of the stream.
One side was full of water smashing against the boulder, the other side was dry.
The boulder was moved and the water flowed as it did before....
Sorry to bore you with the story...... I always think of it when I am at the doctors.
I think long term pain management is very helpful, but the MAIN issues must be addressed and treated as well.
Hope you feel better!
Posted by Patti C. (Member # 14516) on :
Dearest Thyme, I too have been on Lortab (vicodin w/tylenol) for several years. For the last few months, I have also been on Fentanyl patches, 25 mcg. If it weren't for these pain meds, I wouldn't be able to function at all. The patches are on 24/7, but the oral meds I use only when I feel necessary.
Are they habit forming or addictive? Yes, they are. But you can titrate down and off these drugs when the time comes, unless you're a serious addict, and if you're abusing, you'd know that by now. Serious pain and the stress it puts on your body only contributes to the depression of the immune system and length of time it will take to recover from LD. This disease is horrible enough; if there's something you can do to make things more bearable while you're healing, I'm all over it.
As far as feeling like you'll be branded as a "drug addict," I wouldn't worry about it. You're fighting an illness as best you can, and it's nobody else's business. As I said, unless you're concerned about addiction issues, do what you can to make yourself more comfortable.
No drugs are great for your body, and we should limit our use of them, but if they're necessary, sometimes we must use them. It sounds like you're trying to live a healthy lifestyle, and that's fantastic. As soon as you beat this, you'll have a long, healthy drug-free life ahead of you. Best of luck to you.