When they tested me for inflamation, etc. ANA was detected, but the levels were normal. It was suggested I see a rheumatologist.
I understand that Lyme imitates lupus...so I'm wondering what ANA has to do with lyme disease.
Posted by Pinelady (Member # 18524) on :
Ana can mean anything. But they usually test upon
finding a titer the specific cell class it
reacted to. Smooth muscle, speckled could mean
Lupus, but
it can also mean Lyme. No any Ana is not normal.
Sounds like a duck told you this. Only one to
five percent of the population has Ana positive
so if it was detected a titer should have been
performed and then a analysis as to what kind. I
was checked for RA, Weggoners, Wilson's, and
Lupus. All neg. A year later I tested positive
for Lyme. Hope that helps.
Posted by Jasmin (Member # 19959) on :
That does help a lot.
ETA: I had what was called an "arthritis panel" done... for the 3rd time. Would that check for any of the things you were tested for?
Posted by Saskat (Member # 20273) on :
Lyme can raise the autoimmune numbers.
See roadback.org for information about infections causes of autoimmunity, with Lyme being one of the causes.
Posted by Jasmin (Member # 19959) on :
Thanks, I'm checking it out now. I came across a site that says ANA can cause false positive lyme tests.
If our own ANA binds to DNA, does this prevent Bb from binding to our DNA?
Given what our body has to work with (nutrients depleted) it is amazing how it will figure out ways to save us i.e., to prolong our life.
Posted by kelmo (Member # 8797) on :
Yes, and with treatment it can go to normal. Happened with my daughter.
Posted by bettyg (Member # 6147) on :
3 times my ANA was positive; 3 times diagnosed with LUPUS BUT NEVER TREATED!!
34.5 yrs. misdiagnosed before correct chronic lyme dx.
Posted by Pinelady (Member # 18524) on :
Yes Jasmin I was tested for R arthritis. A Lung
specialist did this for me when I developed the
Histoplasmosis symptoms. At the time I did not
think about Lyme as a cause I already had a neg.
test for that. HA. HA. But the hot burning numb toes made
her think I had RA for some reason or some kind
of autoimmune. These are diseases that pop up if
you have autoimmune. After the all clear, my
endo said do nothing till something else pops up.
He thought it was my thyroid since I had a huge
goiter but I tested neg. for autoimmune
antibodies like the ones that causes Hashimotos'
or Graves' so I did not know how that could be
and worried about cancers. It took another year
before I figured it out.
Posted by seekhelp (Member # 15067) on :
Any chance an elevated speckled borderline ANA (1:160) could've caused bands like 23-25, 31, 34, 58 and 83-93 to come up positive on a WB falsely?
Posted by Shosty (Member # 12232) on :
My daughter and I have had very high ANA's (like 1:5120), and positive Western Blots.
An ANA of 1:160 is the closest to normal you can have. The ANA goes up from 1:40 (normal) to 1:160 in one step.
My research a few years back- and it is very hard to find any information on this- was that the Elisa test could be a false positive for Lyme, if a person has autoimmune problems, and possible the 23 band (maybe another, I forget- will try to find it) can also be affected. You have a lot of bands that are positive.
People do not "have autoimmune," but have autoimmune disorders, or illnesses, or whatever. It means that the body is attacking itself, basically, and treatment is to suppress the immune system (not strengthen it. This treatment can be with Plaquenil, which is also used for Lyme, along with Biaxin or zithromax.
Infections can elevate ANA. But a perfectly healthy person could also have an ANA of 1:160, since some people have positive ANA's for genetic reasons, without illness.
Lyme can trigger autoimmune problems like lupus. It can also mimic lupus. Triggering lupus is totally different from mimicking.
If a person develops true autoimmune problems with Lyme (and has, for instance a positive anti-DS DNA or a positive skin biopsy for lupus, that kind of thing, which is definitive)the real question is whether the autoimmunity still accompanies Lyme bacteria, or whether the autoimmunity persisted after the Lyme bacteria were eradicated (or controlled).
The difference would be in treatment, although there are rheumatologists who are treating lupus and RA with antibiotics.
I think that anyone with a very positive Western Blot and a positive ANA should first try to lower or normalize the ANA with Lyme treatment (or co-infections perhaps). After a year and a half or so, I think we should then think about addressing the autoimmunity as a separate entity from the Lyme itself. The autoimmunity might be related to the Lyme or it might not.
These things take years to become clear and we have to be patient. For now, don't worry about labels anyway. And an ANA of 1:160 is not really much to worry about.
Posted by Pinelady (Member # 18524) on :
Seekhelp I would say the Kda bands caused the
speckled Ana like mine. I guess we won't know till
they pull the shades on all the research.
Posted by karenl (Member # 17753) on :
Shosty,did you get your very high ANA down with lyme treatment? Mine is very high as well but not going down after two years. I personally think ANA shows how much the immune system is fighting to get the bugs from the cells.
Posted by sutherngrl (Member # 16270) on :
I thought ANA represented "autoantibodies", meaning your own body is attacking itself.
Posted by karenl (Member # 17753) on :
The question is why a body is attacking the own cells. Probably there is something bad in the attacked cell, like babesia ( look at the pictures from Fry).
Posted by Shosty (Member # 12232) on :
No, my ANA has not come down that much. It's been 9 years since I first got Lyme diagnosed by Western Blot. It goes up and down of course, and my last one was, I think, 1:1280. It does not correlate with symptoms, all the time, which is what rheumatologists will say also. One of my daughters also has a high one. We both get sick in the sun and have other signs of lupus, and I had a positive lupus skin biopsy.
We don't care about labels anymore, but at this point, we think, and have been told, that we both have lupus, possibly triggered by Lyme. We are no longer on antibiotics, after many years on them. We just accept some level of illness, but continue to try to address each symptom as it arises, in the most prudent way that we can.
My youngest had a 1:160 and a very positive Lyme Western Blot. I actually had her tested for Lyme because of the positive ANA, even though it was so low. She had very minor symptoms (feeling like an eyelash in her eye all the time) and was completely cured of all symptoms w/2 months of tetracycline, years ago.
I don't know if her ANA came down. It would be interesting. It could also be a genetic thing: some people have low positive ANA's without any symptoms at all, and are perfectly healthy.
Many people say that their ANA's come down with treatment, and our LLMD expected this too, for us. But that is not what happened, and it would appear that our autoimmune illness is continuing, whether our Lyme is active or not.
Also, we have the HLA-DR4 genetic type, which shows a tendency toward autoimmunity.
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