All of the people I know with Bartonella are congenital lymies.
Igenex told me that finding Bartonella when they test ticks is VERY rare.
My vet friend told me the same thing -- it just isn't found very often.
So. . .could it be that it was around more in the 50's and 60s and 70's and that is why so many of us and our kids have it?
Do you have Bart and are FOR SURE a first generation lymie?
Lots of things floating in my head since I've been hearing about the rarity.
Posted by Melanie Reber (Member # 3707) on :
Hi Peace,
Bart is certainly NOT a rare disease! The stats are rather staggering actually when ticks have been tested in certain areas of the country.
Although, most testing has been done on animals and humans. Many still seem to think that transmission of certain Bart species is non-existent. Such misinformation boggles the brain.
Here is some more info for you, and yes, it has been documented to transmit congenitally.
...
Bartonella
Bartonella is caused by several species of bacteria. It is known to be transmitted by vectors such as fleas, biting flies, body louse, mosquitoes and ticks (Argasidae Carios kelleyi, Ixodes pacificus, Ixodes ricinus, Ixodes scapularis and Rhipicephalus sanguineus).
Bartonella has also been associated with the saliva of dogs and cats, normally passed on through scratches, bites or everyday grooming. Congenital transmission is also documented.
Some species of Bartonella have a Fatality rate of 10-90%.
Transmission of Bartonella henselae by Ixodes ricinus. Cott� V, Bonnet S, Le Rhun D, et al. Emerg Infect Dis 2008 Jul; 14(7):1074-1080.
Experimental Transmission of Bartonella henselae by the Cat Flea. Chomel B, Kasten R, Floyd-Hawkins K, Chi B, Yamamoto K, Roberts-Wilson J, Nikos Gurfield A et al. Journal Of Clinical Microbiology, Aug. 1996, p. 1952-1956.
Bartonella spp. DNA associated with biting flies from California. Chung CY, Kasten RW, Paff SM, Van Horn BA, Vayssier-Taussat M, Boulouis H-J et al. Emerg Infect Dis. 2004 Jul.
Role of Hippoboscidae Flies as Potential Vectors of Bartonella spp. Infecting Wild and Domestic Ruminants. Halos L, Jamal T, Maillard R, Girard B, Guillot J, Chomel B, Vayssier-Taussat M, Boulouis HJ. Appl Environ Microbiol. 2004 Oct;70(10):6302-5.
Experimental Model of Human Body Louse Infection Using Green Fluorescent Protein-Expressing Bartonella quintana. Pierre-Edouard Fournier, Michael F. Minnick, Hubert Lepidi, Eric Salvo, and Didier Raoult Infect Immun. 2001 March; 69(3): 1876-1879.
Infection of Ixodes Ticks, Mosquitoes and Patients with Borrelia, Bartonella, Rickettsia, Anaplasma, Ehrlichia and Babesia in Western Siberia, Russia. Molecular Biology of Spirochetes FC Cabrello et al. IOS Press, 2006.
Isolation of Bartonella quintana from a Woman and a Cat following Putative Bite Transmission. Edward B. Breitschwerdt, Ricardo G. Maggi, Betsy Sigmon, and William L. Nicholson. J Clin Microbiol. 2007 January; 45(1): 270-272.
Bartonella DNA in dog saliva. Duncan AW, Maggi RG, Breitschwerdt EB. Emerg Infect Dis. 2007 Dec;13(12):1948-50.
Isolation or Molecular Detection of Bartonella henselae and Bartonella vinsonii subsp. berkhoffii from Dogs with Idiopathic Cavitary Effusions. Cherry NA, Diniz PP, Maggi RG, Hummel JB, Hardie EM, Behrend EN, Rozanski E, Defrancesco TC, Cadenas MB, Breitschwerdt EB Intracellular Pathogens Research Laboratory and the Veterinary Teaching Hospital, Department of Clinical Sciences, North Carolina State University, Raleigh, NC, USA. J Vet Intern Med 2009 Jan-Feb; 23(1):186-9.
Identification of Bartonella henselae in an Aborted Equine Fetus. Johnson R, Ramos-Vara J, Vemulapalli R Vet Pathol 2009 Mar; 46(2):277-81.
Kinetics of Bartonella birtlesii Infection in Experimentally Infected Mice and Pathogenic Effect on Reproductive Functions. Henri J. Boulouis et al. Infection and Immunity, September 2001, p. 5313-5317, Vol. 69, No. 9.
BARTONELLOSIS New and Old. C . Magui�a , E . Gotuzzo Infectious Disease Clinics of North America , Volume 14 , Issue 1 , Pages 1 - 22 (Fatality rate)
Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
First generation, have bart ... BUT I believe I've had bart for about 36 years.
Posted by peacemama (Member # 17666) on :
Melanie,
I didn't mean to imply that Bartonella is a rare disease at all.
Igenex doesn't see Bartonella in many of the TICKS they test.
Obviously many people test positive, but if they are seeing very little of it in ticks that are sent to them for testing (I think they told me just a couple of percent), then is it possible that it is dying out in the wild, but continuuing to be transmitted at an incredible rate?
I read recently that Dr. J. says that he can work with a pregnant woman and prevent the transmission of Bb, but not co-infections.
Still want to hear from others with Bartonella. I'm still assessing (not that it really matters) whether or not I am a congenital lymie as well, and that my tick bite was a reinfection.
Posted by peacemama (Member # 17666) on :
Melanie,
Can you direct me to the stats that say it is
"rather staggering actually when ticks have been tested in certain areas of the country".
I would be interested in seeing those.
Thanks!
Posted by Hoosiers51 (Member # 15759) on :
I believe I am a first generation lymie also (my mother is healthy and has no history of tick bites), and I have tested positive for bartonella henselae through Quest. It was a titer, so it was active at the time of the blood draw.
My LLMD thinks that I got it from my first tick bite as a child, but that I did not get Lyme until a later tick bite.
After my childhood tick bite, I had a fever of 102.5 while the tick was still attached. Lyme and babesia would take at least a week to produce that kind of fever, but bartonella is capable of producing high fever right after the infection.
Then, I developed migraines (which I am sure must have been related), OCD (could have either been childhood onset or related to the bite), and acheyness.
All of that happened in 1990. However, the symptoms then faded in intensity after awhile without treatment and I was then healthy until my next suspected bite (we think I was rebit in a trip to PA but never saw the tick, just got sick then later tested positive).
The positive bartonella test was much later in life, after I got really sick and was probably rebit, but my LLMD thinks I had it since childhood because of that fever following the bite.
Posted by peacemama (Member # 17666) on :
Thanks Hoosiers. Nice to see you again.
More. . more. . more. . .
Posted by Leelee (Member # 19112) on :
I think I got Lyme as a teenager in the 1970's so that would make me a first-generation infected person.
I definitely have Bartonella too and think I have probably had that since the 1970's as well. Although my Fry smear indicates I could have either Bartonella or mycoplasma, my LLMD and I feel certain it is Barts because of my skin issues.
Posted by lymer (Member # 16352) on :
I am a first-generation lymie, but my sone (who is now 21/2 got bartonella from me in utero or through breastfeeding.
Posted by Ocean (Member # 3496) on :
Hi Peace!
I was tested with Igenex for Bart and it was negative. Dr. H is CA told me that he still suspected, said it may not test positive until I got the Lyme under control.
I believe my mom has Bart. She complains of sore feet, sudden dizzy spells and had severe out of control/almost agoraphobic anxiety for 10 years when I was a kid. She almost seemed bi-polar at times, her mood could be so labile!
I am starting to think I may be congenital bartonella if I have it. I remember feeling really down sometimes as a kid, I was 'emotional and sensitive' according to my parents.
It's hard to say. My mom had lots of cats/kittens growing up.
It's definitely something to look into. My mom is slowly starting to see that something may be wrong with her. That it isn't normal to wake up feeling extremely dizzy that when you get to work you tell the teacher in the room beside you to check on your periodically in case you've passed out.
She used to blame everything on hormones. Then she went through menopause. still having symptoms.
Anyhow, take care!
Ocean
Posted by MY3BOYS (Member # 17830) on :
i have bart by clinical dx (only lyme was +, rmsf, myco on labs) cipro flared up symptoms- esp sore feet!!- so confirms it by LLMD
here's where gets interesting: made hubby get tested after mo. of nagging (only symptoms are insomnia he blames on job, backache) hubby- bart + on lab, lyme, rmsf, myco
then his mom got tested too. she has had health issues for yrs and had massive MI at only 48 yr old. her labs: bart, rmsf, myco, EBV, CMV. on lyme they did ELISA not western blot and was -. pcp wont do blot, wants her to go to ID dr. she tested allergic to ALL abt. except liquid omnicef few yrs ago...odd enough for me!! and told her dont get bart, rmsf without lyme.
her dad died very young from "odd" clotting disease. multiple amputations, then clot to brain. native american, 2nd gen. now research says very high incidence of rmsf in indians. untreated rmsf causes vascular necrosis. reporting low- use of western med. just is not there.
so i think: grandpa- mother inlaw- hubby-me
now worry about our 3 kids.
his 2 brothers also display some symptoms but refuse testing. worry about the one who just had twins via in-vitro after long infertility battle.
Posted by peacemama (Member # 17666) on :
lymer, how long have you been sick?
This is all really interesting to me.
People are congenital or have been sick for a long time.
Anyone out there with a new (last 5 years) bite that caused bartonella?
Posted by CD57 (Member # 11749) on :
Hoosier, I thought it was babesia and erlichia that cause the high fevers right after bite? I had never heard that it could be bartonella. I thought bartonella was rarely associated with fever?