This is topic Friend Prescribed Amoxycillin for 2 Week Old Lyme - Is That a Good Med? in forum Medical Questions at LymeNet Flash.


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Posted by Paul M in MA (Member # 14630) on :
 
Hi All,

My friend was bitten by a tick 2 weeks ago but just got the bulls-eye rash and feels like she has flu-like symptoms and was run over by a truck. She felt she went downhill very quickly since the onset of symptoms yesterday morning.

She went to her primary care physician yesterday and was prescribed oral Amoxycillin twice a day.

Is amoxycillin a potent med for early lyme or would she be better off taking Doxycycline?

Thanks, Paul.
 

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Posted by Melanie Reber (Member # 3707) on :
 
My vote would be to take the Doxy because it covers a wider range of possible co-infections as well. And get her to a real LLMD.
 

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Posted by Marnie (Member # 773) on :
 
The following holds great promise IF given fast enough.

It is "a new formulation of doxycycline hyclate that is programmed to release the drug over a 20 day period is 100% effective." It is an injection! Slow release over many days.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/03/080319193029.htm
 

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Posted by liesandmorelies (Member # 15323) on :
 
Paul,

Doxy may be better, but some doctors like amox better especially because it's summertime and doxy can cause severe burns in some cases.

Amox is generally more gentle and some ppl have a hard time with doxy on the stomach.

Doxy is usually the first line of defense abx that is prescribed.


Marnie,

That sounds very interesting about the slow release doxy.
 

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Posted by liesandmorelies (Member # 15323) on :
 
Paul,

PS Amox is usually given 3x's daily not 2x's.
 

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Posted by Paul M in MA (Member # 14630) on :
 
Thank you all for the info. I'll contact my friend tomorrow and let her know.
 

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Posted by Cold Feet (Member # 9882) on :
 
Just to play devil's advocate:

- doxy is bacteriostatic and may not have the penetrating effect that other tetracyclines have; perhaps that's why some docs double up on the doxy dosing

- some antibiotics are said to actually "drive" Bb into other forms, making them deeper and harder to eliminate. I've read about this in several places but cannot say this is a "fact." Also, take a close look at biofilm research findings, as it's looking like that many types of bacteria (not just gram-negative) have a biofilm capability. Maybe biofilm will turn out to yet ANOTHER form!

Here's a good link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cephalosporin
 

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Posted by AliG (Member # 9734) on :
 
FWIW - I've been fighting tooth & nail to recover for 3 years after an initial 2 weeks of oral Amoxi.

Then again, I also had quite a few initially ignored co-infections so perhaps your friend might fare better if they truly ONLY have Lyme.

If I had it to do over again, knowing what I now know, I wouldn't accept that treatment from my PCP. I'd rather treat more agressively up front than end up with MS symptoms down the road.

Please make certain that your friend gets properly tested for co-infections. Doxy will address SOME co-infections, Amoxicillin will not.
 

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Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
 
I took amoxy at one point - 2500 mg three times daily plus probenecid to make it work better.
 

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Posted by Cold Feet (Member # 9882) on :
 
Ali, very good point -- thx for saying this for the rest of us! DO NOT forget about possible coinfections which are NOT effected by doxy!


 

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Posted by Paul M in MA (Member # 14630) on :
 
I spoke with my friend a little while ago and she said she is feeling better today but still has a long way to go.

She couldn't believe how fast the illness came on and how crushing the fatigue was. She said it felt like an elephant was standing on her shoulders when she tried to walk around.

AliG - thanks - while I was talking to her I asked her if her PCP had tested for co-infections and she said no. I told her how important it was to get tested. I'm shocked (not really) that her PCP wouldn't know to test for co's.

Thanks for all the great replies. Paul.
 

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Posted by lou (Member # 81) on :
 
Some people think that coinfections can be handled by the immune system if lyme is treated early and adequately. I don't know if this is true for everyone, though.

The sunburn with doxy is really important to remember if she changes meds. Suncreen won't work. Got to cover up and stay out of the sun entirely.

It is really important that she not stop treatment after two weeks. I personally would not be happy with less than six weeks for an early case, and being totally paranoid, would probably want more. Most docs will not do this.
 

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Posted by Marnie (Member # 773) on :
 
We DO have to impact Ca immediately (bind it). IMO...increasing extracellular Mg is the "ideal"...from not only a Ca aspect, but from many other aspects (acetylcholine release included).

Ca does indeed activate an enzyme of Bb's that helps "him" to metabolize arginine -> citrulline + AMMONIA (NH3)

Proof:

Bb has a gene to metabolize arginine and proline i.e., break them down:

Gene Name:
BB0841

EC Number:
3.5.3.6

Organism:
Borrelia burgdorferi B31

***Putative***Identity:
arginine deiminase

Arginine deiminase is a calcium dependent enzyme.

This enzyme participates in arginine and proline metabolism.

Metabolism = breakdown.

an arginine deiminase is an enzyme that catalyzes the chemical reaction:

L-arginine + H2O <-> L-citrulline + NH3 (NH3 = ammonia!)

NOtice it is bi-directional.

AND...

(glucosamine-6-phosphate deaminase from Borrelia burgdorferi; EC 3.5.99.6)

D-glucosamine 6-phosphate + H2O = D-fructose 6-phosphate + NH3

Is Bb "making" - via enzymes - and then using - a LOT of ammonia, NH3? That (ammonia) can be very very toxic to us.
 

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Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Melanie Reber:
[QB] My vote would be to take the Doxy because it covers a wider range of possible co-infections as well. And get her to a real LLMD.

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