My LLMD recently told me something that confused me a ton. I was told my hypercoagulation panel through HEMIX which was reported as normal was actually abnormal.
Apprently, the lab was bought out by another firm and they decided to change reference ranges. Wish i would've known before I dumped $400, but I guess it doesn't matter as the result is the result. I don't think it's too bad, but the LLMD said heparin may help.
I feel like I'm throwing endless treatment options out there and need to make decisions. There are 100 'could try this' things available, but I need to make my own reasonable decisions.
My fibrin levels through Quest were at the very high end of normal in Jul-08.
which products do you use that you feel yields the most benefit (outside of Heparin which my doc says is leaps and bounds more effective than any other options)? I know of Nanok### and Butak####.
I am particularly interested in the doses and manufactuters of these supplements. How much do you spend on them monthly? Are they truly worth the expense? Anyone with mildly abnormal hypercoagulation panels notice miraculous results on these types of prodcuts?
Bringing fatigue levels down and increasing exercise abilities is top priority.
Posted by Carol in PA (Member # 5338) on :
Dr. C. found that 90% of his patients with Lyme also had hypercoagulation.
I decided to try systemic enzyme therapy, which reduces fibrin. After trying a couple things, I found Wobenzym.
This must be taken on an empty stomach, so I took it first thing in the morning. I worked up to 12 tablets, once daily.
I wasn't sure what would happen, but within two weeks I realised that my neverending splitting headache was reduced.
I had tried so many things to stop that stupid headache. I still get migraines, but the pain level is much lower.
There are many vendors that carry it, but I found VitaminShoppe.com to have the best price. Taking 12 tablets daily works out to $9.16 per week.
Systemic enzymes reduce the biofilms that protect bacteria. Taking them with antibiotics helps the antibiotics to work better.
Carol
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
I would go with Bulouke ( lumbrokinase ) if you're not interested in the heparin therapy.
Either way, you have two abnormal test results now. It probably needs to be addressed.
I found the most help with pain, fatigue and brain fog.
It will also help the abx get deeper into the cells which are right now being blocked by the fibrin.
Lyme is a complex disease to say the least!!
Posted by Cold Feet (Member # 9882) on :
Yikes?! Thanks for this weird news!
"...Apprently, the lab was bought out by another firm and they decided to change reference ranges..."
This is alarming to me for many other reasons I won't go into here.
You asked about blood thinning and there's a lot you can do. I like serrapeptase, as it is powerful and inexpensive. You can get it at vitamin shop.
I bought other (much) more expensive enzymes, like Rechts Regulat, but I don't think it's necessarily worth that, given the trouble & expense. If you rotate through the other available enzymes, you may get good results. IMHO, enzyme therapy rocks!
Posted by MorningSong (Member # 19989) on :
Vit E is a natural blood thinner. I have started taking it to help with this condition. Here is a quality Vitamin E -- cost a little extra, but it is very good quality.
On the link below, 1/2 way down the page it talks about it as a natural blood thinner.
Something to investigate. Im not a doctor, but it has been stated to be a natural blood thinner.
Posted by VB (Member # 16824) on :
does anyone know if low dose aspirin would work?
Posted by D Bergy (Member # 9984) on :
Turmeric, Fish or the better alternative Krill Oil thin the blood slightly. Since they have many other properties useful for Lyme, you may want to consider using these.
Dan
Posted by Abxnomore (Member # 18936) on :
low dose aspirin is a blood thinner but there are much better natural supplements as mentioned above without the side affects of aspirin:
Fish oils/omega 3's Nattokinase wobenzym neprinol Turmeric lumbrokinase Vitimen E Bromelain ginkgo ginger
Posted by Lymeorsomething (Member # 16359) on :
I've seen one study that suggested aspirin helps the effectiveness of antibiotics on the gut level (in relation to H Pylori treatment)...can't say it would help in terms of a lyme protocol...
Aspirin increases susceptibility of Helicobacter pylori to metronidazole by augmenting endocellular concentrations of antimicrobials. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19248190
The danger of course is Reyes Syndrome....but I have taken some aspirin along with Vit C during my treatment for H pylori....
Posted by Cass A (Member # 11134) on :
For me, Rechts Regulat definitely WORKED! After a while, you can cut down the daily dose to a very small amount, so it doesn't cost so much overall.
This is a specific for hypercoagulation.
For cleaning out the fibrin in blood vessels, lumbrokinase works specifically on the brain, according to my LLMD, and in high doses can reverse a stroke.
A less expensive alternative for fibrin stripping is Vitalzyme. Wobenzyme, etc., are also mainly for fibrin-eating.
Have a look at Dr. K's article on Lyme Disease where he talks about Rechts-Regulat.
I have tried all of these, and Rechts-Regulat was the one that worked for me for hypercoagulation. The rest did not.
Best,
Cass A
Posted by GiGi (Member # 259) on :
Rechtsregulat works almost instantly. I saw it work within five minutes in the blood drawn before Rechtsregulat and 3 minutes after drawing.
You can reduce it to a few drops as Cass said within possibly a week, instead of spoons full.
It addresses a lot more than fibrin. It addresses everything from cardio disorders to warts and wrinkles, wounds, eyes, colitis, rheum....
My house is never without it and a bottle lasts us for a very long time. I call it my 10,000 enzymes.
In many cases, it can be used diluted. I have the manufacturers book in English called Accessible Enzymes put out by www.enzymfit.com Have not been able to find another copy. Write Scott Forsgren- he may still have it in English. The German booklet (100 pages) is available from the manufacturer. Don't know if they now have it in English. I got their German one many years ago when I first discovered Rechtsregulat. It is available in any German pharmacy - in smaller and larger sizes. That's how popular it is. I introduced Dr. K. to it and it became one of his favorites. He went overthere during one of his teaching tours and inspected how R. is made and has used it in his practice ever since.
Take care.
Posted by Buster (Member # 19472) on :
I am on heparin and bolouke.
Posted by painted turtle (Member # 7801) on :
I tried heparin trouche therapy and really, it wasn't much effective. This is possibly because I had soooooooooo much going on at the time.
I was told by my dr office that aspirin does not specifically address the FIBRIN problem.
Haven't tried any of the natural remedies (yet) for hypercoagulation,
Posted by D Bergy (Member # 9984) on :
Serrapeptase is supposed to dissolve Fibrin.
Dan
Posted by Pinelady (Member # 18524) on :
Is the new synthetic heparin available yet?
Posted by seekhelp (Member # 15067) on :
Yes, I am, but I'm not sure what parasites have to do with this.
quote:Originally posted by TO LIFE: Have you treated for parasites?
Posted by peacemama (Member # 17666) on :
I take nattokinase, the enzyme and it works really well.
In fact, the paramedics can attest to the fact that it works as well as cumadin for me. I cut my finger and they had a heck of a time getting it stopped.
And in the past, my blood ran very, very slow.
Same with my 13 year old. He put a knife through the pad of his thumb. Blood, blood, blood. Before he started taking the natto he was super clot boy.
I take one tab. Red bottle. Can't find it right now, but if you want details, PM me.
Posted by fifi25 (Member # 16675) on :
i tried to order Rechtsregulat and i couldn't , they do not sell to USA due to FDA and custom.
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
quote:Originally posted by VB: does anyone know if low dose aspirin would work? [/QB]
No, it doesn't work on fibrin.
Posted by Cold Feet (Member # 9882) on :
Rechtsregulat is like the future version of American healthcare: it's expensive, hard to get and may not help everyone!
Posted by Cass A (Member # 11134) on :
Dear Friends,
Rechts Regulat can be gotten from Dr. K's supplement business, that also carries the oils he recommends, etc.
Sometimes they don't have it either, however.
As for the American health care scene, I just got a report from someone who is actually READING THE BILL the House of Representatives passed! He's at page 600 or so, of over 1000 pages. You can bet that YOUR REPRESENTATIVE DID NOT READ THE BILL before voting on it!!
If you'd like to see what this report had to say, PM me.
Best,
Cass A
Posted by gemofnj (Member # 15551) on :
seek,
carol thank you for the great information regarding hypo-coagulation.
this was in one of carols articles regarding hypo-coagulation:
'There are at least three possible causes or contributing factors:
1) Virii, bacteria, mycoplasmas, and/or parasites activate certain antibodies in the immune system that trigger the production of thrombin, generate SFM and result in fibrin deposits.
2) Genetic coagulation defects can lead to hypercoagulation. White people are susceptible to this and black people have a resistance to it.
3) Chemical exposure can result in changes that trigger the coagulation process.'
maybe that is why someone suggested parasites as a trigger.
hope you can find the right course of treatment that is right for you.
Posted by seekhelp (Member # 15067) on :
Thanks Gemofnj. I had no idea parasites can do this. Wow, these are some mean critters. They cause more havoc than I imagined.
Posted by MorningSong (Member # 19989) on :
Thank you for this thread. Really learning a lot from it.
My LLMD stated I had hypercoagulation. The only test that was slightly elevated was D-Dimer.
How do you test to verify the supplement is working?
Posted by gemofnj (Member # 15551) on :
seek,
yes i agree its overwhelming. who would ever believe some of this stuff could be possible ????
i do wish you well as i know how much you have been struggling. (hugs to you)
Posted by hope4sofia (Member # 20577) on :
Can I ask what the symptoms of hypercoagulation are?
Posted by seekhelp (Member # 15067) on :
To Life, I have had many episodes during this illness of luncg tightness, shortness of breath. Especially when it started.
I chalked it all up to anxiety, but this crap lasted DAYS at a time and got somewhat better w/treatment (Abx).
I can't do any exertion-type activities due to it. Hot weather REALLY aggravates symptoms.
I have clear X-rays, chest CT, etc. I'm about to start the Humaworm Lung Cleanse product tomorrow. I'm hoping maybe it helps a bit. I haven't seen any big benefits from Humaworm, but have felt a bit better since I did their liver/gallbladder cleanse for 15-days.
Never saw any of these 80 ft tapeworms or red bugs mentioned here by others during my cleanse. I guess that's a good thing! I'd probably faint.
Posted by Carol in PA (Member # 5338) on :
quote:Originally posted by hope4sofia: Can I ask what the symptoms of hypercoagulation are?
quote:Originally posted by MorningSong: How do you test to verify the supplement is working?
In my case, when I used Wobenzym, within two weeks I no longer woke up every morning with a splitting headache.
Headache is one of the symptoms of hypercoagulation.
Systemic enzymes are supposed to reduce fibrin and inflammation, so lab tests for those should go down.
Carol
Posted by seekhelp (Member # 15067) on :
Carol, I rarely get headaches. I get lots of fatigue, no exercise tolerance, muscle tightness, and some head pressure (can get bad at times).
I was shocked my LLMD said I had this issue as a lab can extract 15-20 vials of my blood at once effortlessly. Does this make sense?
Posted by Lymeorsomething (Member # 16359) on :
Are platelets low or high with this condition?
Posted by seekhelp (Member # 15067) on :
Mine are normal. I'm not sure of the correlation though.
Posted by Lymeorsomething (Member # 16359) on :
Thanks. You'd think platelets would be getting damaged more with this condition. My platelets are normal too but low-normal for a male...
Posted by Carol in PA (Member # 5338) on :
quote:Originally posted by seekhelp: I rarely get headaches. I was shocked my LLMD said I had this issue as a lab can extract 15-20 vials of my blood at once effortlessly.
I don't think lab techs have any difficulty getting my blood either, but I've heard so many people say that their blood came out thick and slow.
I did not get tested...with this fatigue, it was easier to order the systemic enzymes and try them.
It's remarkable that 90% of Lyme patients have hypercoagulation.
I wonder why more LLMD's don't use systemic enzyme therapy.
Carol
Posted by Truthfinder (Member # 8512) on :
Rechtsregulat is listed for sale at BioPure....
I almost ordered some the other day..... but it says in the product info that once opened, the contents should be consumed within 4 weeks.
But others here say that they use very little and keep the bottle around for a long time.
So, what should I assume is the 'shelf life' of Rechtsregulat once it is opened?
Posted by MorningSong (Member # 19989) on :
My blood comes out thick and slow. LLMD stated I had hypercoagulation. My only abnormal test was slightly elevated D-Dimer. Is this the test in which people are diagnosed?
I was wondering if the hypercoagulation also causes pain on the inside area of the thighs where main arteries are.
Posted by seekhelp (Member # 15067) on :
Hypercoagulation should be diagnosed by other lab tests. it's not a clincial Dx.
D-Dimer test for blod clots. Typically used in ER settings.
I'm not sure all the symptoms this condition causes, but tests such as fibrin levels, PTT, etc. are the right ones.
Was the LLMD able to back it up via lab tests? Did you have specific panels run?
Posted by ruggie100 (Member # 21415) on :
I would never never never go without lumbrokinase (bulouke-spelling?). Very expensive, but worth every penny. I forgot to take it for two days and was back to severe pain. It reduces all of my insane digestive issues and helps to clears my brain. I used to have terrible kidney, pancreatic and liver stress. I also had a "Pinching" sensation in my blood vessels (that is what is felt like). This blood thinner has saved me. One I don't go without.
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
quote:Originally posted by Cass A:
As for the American health care scene, I just got a report from someone who is actually READING THE BILL the House of Representatives passed! He's at page 600 or so, of over 1000 pages. You can bet that YOUR REPRESENTATIVE DID NOT READ THE BILL before voting on it!!
If you'd like to see what this report had to say, PM me.
Please post some of it over in General Support. There are two threads over there.
Posted by Lymeorsomething (Member # 16359) on :
Lumbrokinase sounds interesting. Thanks Ruggie. Who else has used this?
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They cause more havoc than I imagined.