I know someone who has "mystery" heart problems. The cardio is confused and testing continues.
As with all "mystery" sx I suspect lyme, especially with some other sx thrown in. But I haven't been aware of lyme and heart issues.
So, I call on all our collective research and experience: does anyone know of a connection with lyme and the heart? And if so, what effect does lyme have on it?
(Meaning specifically, what kind of damage or change).
Thank you
James
[ 09-10-2009, 07:07 PM: Message edited by: JamesNYC ]
Posted by TF (Member # 14183) on :
Burrascano lists the following heart symptoms:
Heart murmur or valve prolapse Heart palpitations or skips "Heart block" on EKG
My girlfriend had what they decided to call a "heart attack" which cannot be explained by her cardio or any other doctor. She did not have any heart damage from it.
She was later diagnosed with lyme disease by one of the best. She had had lyme at that time and prior to that time.
She had a fibromyalgia diagnosis that turned out to be lyme, babesiosis, and bartonella.
So, lyme can definitely affect the heart.
Many posts about people treating babesiosis with mepron and zith and getting terrible heart problems such as skipping beats during the treatment. Scares them a lot.
Posted by JamesNYC (Member # 15793) on :
Thank you TF and Grandma.
But I want to know if anyone has physcal specifics on how lyme may effect the heart. Weaken it? Damage valves? etc.
TF, how can they say your friend had a "heart attack" but have no damage? Like, what would have caused it? Nothing? So typical! I'm glad she's okay.
James
Posted by nomoremuscles (Member # 9560) on :
Lyme broke my heart.
Posted by feelfit (Member # 12770) on :
James,
Lyme can damage heart valves. There is one member here who had to have open heart surgery to have a valve replaced.
Lyme can also cause heart block as another poster stated. In this case, the HR will remain the same even when it should be increasing. Sometimes a pacemaker becomes necessary.
EKG changes can also be seen at times, esp. with babs and tx.. Tachacardia, which they call benign, but feels anything but, is also common.
Some of this is a result of nerve involvement and some actually infection in the heart.
Feelfit
Posted by Melanie Reber (Member # 3707) on :
Borrelia burgdorferi myositis: report of eight patients. Reimers CD, de Koning J, Neubert U, Preac-Mursic V, Koster JG, M�ller-Felber W, Pongratz DE, Duray PH. J Neuro, 240(5):278-83. 1993.
Myositis is a rare manifestation of Lyme disease of unknown pathogenesis... One patient died from cardiac arrest caused by myocarditis and Guillain-Barre syndrome.
Fatal Lyme carditis and endodermal heterotopia of the atrioventricular node. Cary NR, Fox B, Wright DJ, Cutler SJ, Shapiro LM, Grace AA. Postgrad Med J, 66(773):258. 1990.
A fatal case of Lyme carditis occurring in a Suffolk farmworker is reported. Post-mortem examination of the heart showed pericarditis, focal myocarditis and prominent endocardial and interstitial fibrosis. The additional finding of endodermal heterotopia ('mesothelioma') of the atrioventricular node raises the possibility that this could also be related to Lyme infection and account for the relatively frequent occurrence of atrioventricular block in this condition. Lyme disease should always be considered in a case of atrioventricular block, particularly in a young patient from a rural area. The heart block tends to improve and therefore only temporary pacing may be required.
Postmortem confirmation of Lyme carditis with polymerase chain reaction. Tavora F, Burke A, Li L, Franks TJ, Virmani R. Cardiovasc Pathol. 2008 Mar-Apr;17(2):103-7.
We describe the case of a 37-year-old Caucasian man with a 1-month history of fevers, rash, and malaise who died unexpectedly on the day after he underwent medical evaluation. The only clinical cardiac abnormality found was that of second-degree atrioventricular block. At autopsy, a diffuse carditis, characterized by infiltrates of macrophages, lymphocytes, and eosinophils and primarily in an interstitial, endocardial, and perivascular distribution, was found. Serologic testing from blood drawn on the day before his death demonstrated IgG and IgM antibodies against B. burgdorferi, confirmed by Western blot. Postmortem polymerase chain reaction (PCR) performed in myocardial tissue amplified B. burgdorferi DNA encoding outer-surface protein A.
Early disseminated Lyme disease: cardiac manifestations. Sigal LH. Am J Med Apr 24;98(4A):25S-28S; discussion 28S-29S 1995. PMID: 7726189
The cardiac features of Lyme disease usually occur within weeks to months of the infecting tick bite; the result may be disruption of the conduction system, leading to heart block and muscle dysfunction, causing a mild myopericarditis. Lyme carditis is usually mild, although permanent heart block and a few fatalities claimed to be due to Lyme carditis have been reported. Recent reports have suggested that Lyme disease may be a cause of chronic congestive cardiomyopathy. Lyme carditis should be considered in the proper clinical setting with appropriate use of diagnostic tests, recalling that patients with carditis early in Lyme disease may be seronegative.
The epidemiology of infectious myocarditis, lymphocytic myocarditis and dilated cardiomyopathy. Friman G, Wesslen L, Fohlman J, Karjalainen J, Rolf C Eur Heart J Dec;16 Suppl O:36-41. 1995.
Borrelia burgdorferi infection is accompanied by cardiac involvement in 1-8% of cases, where myocarditis with conduction disturbances is the most prominent feature. ...Borrelia burgdorferi may occasionally be implicated in DCM. In this contribution we focus also on sudden unexpected death (SUD) in young athletes, since, in Sweden, an increased frequency of SUD has recently been observed in young orienteers and myocarditis was a common feature.
Fatal pancarditis in a patient with co-existent Lyme disease and babesiosis: Demonstration of spirochetes in the heart. Marcus LC, Steere AC, Duray PH. Annals of Internal Medicine, 103:374-6. 1985.
The finding of spirochetes in the myocardium and the elevated antibody titers to Borrelia burgdorferi suggest that the patient died from cardiac involvement of Lyme disease.
Posted by IckyTicky (Member # 21466) on :
I've had a heart murmur since I was a teen. I've been told I had a heart murmur, then told it was gone and that I probably outgrew it. Then told I still have it. Then told it was gone again. I don't know how a heart murmur comes and goes... but mine does.
Other than that, just the usual Racing pulse & Heart Palps
Posted by disturbedme (Member # 12346) on :
Like IckyTicky, I've had a heart murmur heard off and on as well. Some days it will be heard and others it won't be.
The first heart issues I've had coincided during the time I was first bit and found the tick on me. I started having tachycardia (fast pulse), around the age of 12-13. That has NEVER went away. It's been chronic and continuous, even now more than 10 years later. I then had heart palpitations that at one time got very, very bad and had to have heart testing and wear a halter monitor, but nothing was ever found as the cause.
It only ever made sense and came together when I was diagnosed with lyme, that this could be the reason for the chronic tachycardia for years and years and the palpitations and other heart issues.
Posted by Pinelady (Member # 18524) on :
Lyme carditis is well documented in the medical
journals. Many require temporary pacing in
treatment to prevent death. Of which I believe
many is caused by antibiotic mass killing that
prevents cells from being able to conduct the
necessary electro conduction's to keep heart
normal. Which could lead to permanant damage. I
do believe I know a young man this happened to.
He developed heart blocks that would not convert
with drugs and he died.
Posted by RDaywillcome (Member # 21454) on :
This person I know has an unexplained reduction in heart pumping strength. A catheterization shows no blockages that explain the change.
The cardiologist said it's possible a virus or a parasite (not found in this country, and not one she could actually name) could have be weakening his heart. But not a bacteria (JAMA says a bacteria is more likely to cause problems than a virus).
So, I wonder if lyme or babs could be the possible culprit (now I wonder about lyme whenever a doc says "dunno").
Another cardio thinks it's natural effect of aging, contradicting the other 3 cardios. Do any Drs know what they're doing?
Topic: To everyone with CARDIAC symptoms please read!
Posted by btmb03
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Posted by Myco (Member # 9536) on :
Lyme or co-infections can also cause problems with the vagus nerve (Inflammation, irritation) which leads to irregular heartbeats upon swallowing, movement of the upper torso. I have this, along with trace regurgitation.
Posted by Lemon-Lyme (Member # 19229) on :
I was diagnosed with idiopathic cardiomyopathy four years ago. Idiopathic is just a fancy medical word for 'We don't know the cause'. Cardiomyopathy is sort of a general term for a disease of the heart muscle. Basically, my heart wasn't pumping hard enough, but no cause was discovered -- my arteries were clean, no heart scarring, etc.
Years before this I had some weird symptoms and an iffy Western Blot. And after being diagnosed, odd symptoms progressed. Several months ago I tested positive via the Igenex WB, along with antibodies showing positive exposure to ehrlicia, spotted fever and typhus.
My ILADS doc thinks my cardiomyopathy was most likely caused by Lyme. Although there is also the possibility it was indirectly caused by Lyme: via immune dysfunction -- overreaction of immune system to coxsackie virus = cardiomyopathy.
So... it's possible Lyme caused your friend's heart problems. If your friend has other symptoms that match Lyme, it would certainly seem suspicious.
I assume he/she was tested for Lyme, and other possible causes too?
Posted by Pinelady (Member # 18524) on :
I believe the patients with heart blocks could get
the best treatment by transfusions and or dialysis
whereby cells could transport the necessary
electrolytes to provide the conduction. Why it is
not used I do not know. But it is well documented
the drug protocols don't.
Posted by PV (Member # 20436) on :
I have Lyme heart implications, mainly while in bed relaxing and trying to sleep! (palpitations, racing, pronounced beats, variable/randomly changing pulse rate, mitral valve prolapse/ lagging valves, three beats instead of two, the list is endless! Yet my blood pressure has always been ok. All brought on by Lyme in Nov 08. At the moment it's settled down some - anyway.
One thing to try...
If your friend has not had any antibiotics for more than a month (at least), then with the doctors ok try this:
1. Monitor the heart for a reference in a relaxed state at around 5-7am while still laid in bed. This is when the brain is sending reduced strength nerve signals to the peripheral and central nervous system including the hearts valves and muscles. It is in this condition where the borrelia bacteria can cause most disruption to heart nerves as the bodies nerve drive is reduced i.e. all limbs etc are uncontrolled etc. Thus the borrelia activity disrupts the bodies/brains weaker drive of motor control and sensory feedback nerve signals.
2. Take 1 x 500mg tablet of amoxicillin 3pm and another 500mg casual at 11pm (both without food). Drink 1 pint of water with each tablet. Go to bed at 12pm midnight. Food OK half hour after a tablet.
3. Repeat step 1 at the same time as the first ref was taken. If the heart has improved (mine goes completely back to normal but only for up to a day and then slowly degrades again over the next day back to how it was) then borrelia could be the cause of your heart problem. Further amoxi does not repeat the fix.
This effect is due to the SHOCK arrival of amoxi, making the bacteria change into the protective ball form. The borrelia subsequently analyses the threat and then comes back out knowing it can adapt and cope.
Go to youtube and search for `borrelia penicillin' and watch the 5 star'd Lyme bacteria Cyst formation with detail video. This shows the effect an antibiotic has on the bacteria and how it adapts to protect its self. Unfortunately it can re-form from the protective state.
If this doesn't work the condition could still be borrelia related as the strains of borrelia and the range of antibiotics to suite are immense.
Disclaimer: I am not a doctor and only try the above with doctors guidance and authority.
Hope this helps and anyone else with Lyme heart. Peter
Keep in mind the above was looking at OspA, not OspB or OspC...IMO...big mistake!
Specifics:
Bb binds to our norepinephrine and epinephrine to express its OspA.
"Blocking norepinephrine slows down the nerve impulses that travel through the heart. The heart then needs les oxygen and blood and starts to pump slower."
As a defense move during lyme, we upregulate melatonin which lowers dopamine (bad, but) dopamine is used to make norepinephrine...
Less dopamine = less norepinephrine.
epinephrine comes from norepinephrine.
Propranolol, a beta-adrenergic blocker decreases OspA.
Then all we have to try to deal with is OspB (big problem) and OspC (which is not problematic)
And then the CWD form...
[ 09-13-2009, 10:42 AM: Message edited by: Marnie ]
Posted by hcconn22 (Member # 5263) on :
Babesia will cause heat problems like you describe-- it also thickens the blood which again causes pumping problems.
Your friend should be tested for Lyme, Babesia and other co-infections such as mycoplasm pnomonia which can all cause heart problems.
Lyme also caused inflammation and will settle in the heart and damage heart valves.
Had all of the above but resolved greatly after several months of treatment.