I have been on the doxepin and soma for about 10 years. Slowly increased to current levels to maintain benefits. Melatonin and lunesta added about 6 months ago. Now, when I don't take lunesta, I feel like I have been at a rave party the night before
I like the "knock out" affect but something tells me I should switch things around a bit. If I continue to take the lunesta, I think I will decrease other night time meds....I don't know. I have gotten mixed opinions from various Dr's and for now, I'm my own Dr. Previous LLMD was aware of this combo and seemed to approve it...
Appreciate it!
Posted by psano2 (Member # 11711) on :
It doesn't sound good to me. I wouldn't want to take so many drugs just to get to sleep, but you've been on the Soma and doxepin so long that your body is probably addicted to it.
Any withdrawal from one should be done very slowly, not cold turkey.
Posted by KimDC (Member # 20699) on :
The only real sleep med you're on is Lunesta. Doxepin is an anti-depressant with the side effect of drowsiness. Soma is a muscle relaxer with the same side effect. The melatonin is completely natural.
Maybe that's why the drs. are O.K. with them all?
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
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Because of reactions I've had, I am never a fan of any pharmaceuticals for sleep as they are, to my system, kryptonite. Some people seem to do okay with some of them but I can't comment on dose - just that you always have to take into account the effect on the liver of every thing you take. Many sleep meds (and anti-depressants) are very hard on the liver and that actually can hamper good sleep in many ways, then. So, be sure you have good liver support.
The big question is how do you feel when you wake up and then through the day? If you feel at all "hung-over" that is a sign of liver stress. If you don't feel refreshed soon after awakening (as much as a lyme patient can), that is a sign that something could be too harsh on your liver or too much for your nervous system.
About melatonin: 6 mg is a lot. If I recall correctly for what I've read, that is way more than the body would normally make itself. There are some timed release ones at lower dose. Perhaps those might work better.
Are you taking magnesium and calcium? Liver support? Fish oil?
Topic: NATURAL SLEEP - Links to articles & supplements
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Posted by psano2 (Member # 11711) on :
KimDC is right about doxepin and Soma. However I've known some mD's in the past who would prescribe them (esp. doxepin) for sleep.
Posted by keltyl (Member # 14050) on :
Psano....Sleep has been a huge issue for me, and I take more drugs at bedtime than you do. I was only sleeping 2 hrs a night, and I just can't do that.
So to me, you are ok. It would be nice to be able to go all natural, but I tried everything and it didn't work.
Posted by psano2 (Member # 11711) on :
I'm not all natural, myself. I occasionally take an Ativan to help me sleep. I find that I often feel anxious when I'm trying to get to sleep, and this helps me stop thinking and relax.
If I really can't sleep, I take a Dalmane. It really works for me and seems to get me back on a regular sleeping track. I know it's too strong for some, but it's good for me. However, I rarely use it. I haven't used one in probably 6 months, if that.
Posted by Tracy9 (Member # 7521) on :
I take a lot of sleep meds too. I have had to give my 14 year old as much as 10 mg of Melatonin to get him to sleep, when he was younger, even. 3 mg doesn't touch him.
I have tolerance to meds, so I have to switch them around regularly; sometimes every week or two, or different days. Here is what I take:
150 mg Seroquel 3 mg Lunesta/alternated with 10 mg Ambien 30 mg Restoril/alternated with 30 mg Dalmane
I am in the process of switching the Seroquel over to Topamax due to the weight gain. My LLD insists Topamax won't help with sleep, but others here have said it will.
Posted by AliG (Member # 9734) on :
The only sleep med that ever helped me was Trazodone.
It's actually an old anti-depressant that isn't really used for that purpose anymore because it knocked people out and the newer ones didn't do that.
I was taking very, very small doses.
It was great to get some decent sleep.
It was the only med I was taking, other than ABX though, and I don't know if it might interact with any of the others that you're taking.
Posted by AliG (Member # 9734) on :
quote:Originally posted by tmmort: I'm my own Dr.
I would ask your pharmacist.... that might be dangerous.
Suppose it IS and there was no one here would knew it?
That's not a chance I would personally take.
I wouldn't want to see you harmed by self-Tx. Posted by trigal2 (Member # 20578) on :
I would mostly be concerned about the drug interaction between Soma and Lunesta. The combined effects could be too much for some people.
Do you have a hx of sleep apena? If so be very cautious.... Contact your pharmacist or Dr. but I would be careful. Even though Soma is a muscle relaxer it does have effects on the CNS - I believe Soma is one that does act directly on the CNS and can cause a slowing of the resp. system as well. Best bet is to check with Pharm. or MD.
Posted by AliG (Member # 9734) on :
If you wanted to avoid some of the withdrawal effects you could try the herb "Holy Basil", aka - Tulsi or Tulsai.
It's an adaptogenic herb that helps balance out the brain chemicals.
I used it to get off of the stupid Effexor-XR that my PCP had put me on when she deemed me Fibromyalgic.
Posted by tmmort (Member # 14013) on :
My previous LLMD and pharmacist's were aware of the combination except I've added Lunesta.
The Lunesta is helping me sleep better than anything else I have tried. Of course my insurance won't cover it so I pay out of pocket.
It is actually the only real sleep med I'm taking. I think the Soma in combo is too much and I'm very slowly tappering down.
We'll see how it goes.....
I'm not sure about the doxepin, although my previous LLMD said I could interchange it with nortriptyline. Perhaps I'll cut that dose slightly when I make the change.
I also take 150 mg of zoloft in the am, which I know isn't working very well for me anymore. I want to change it to cymbalta. Any ideas on how I could make this change?
I'm serving as my own doc because every doctor in this state thinks I'm nuts with some crazy doc in CA just writing me prx's for the hell of it. I can't make the trips to CA anymore and I can't afford it. My LLMD in CA doesn't really want to treat me anymore since I left the state. Before I moved I was about to try I.V. antibiotics...but didn't.
As I have said, I've been treating Lyme & Babs for almost 6 years with some improvement that doesn't seem to last. I never thought this would be so hard. It's just plain freaking hard and we lymies should be applauded for all the sh*t we endure.
Anyway, I'm thankful to have a place to just be honest and open.
Thanks for your replies!
Posted by trigal2 (Member # 20578) on :
In regards to changing from Zoloft - you should consider tapering off slowly to give your body time to adjust before making the switch over.
It will take some time to see if and how your body reacts to the cymbalta. Be prepared for some side effects that you may not be having from the Zoloft and if you do suffer from depression be prepared for some of those feelings to emerge until the Cymbalta begins working.
While Soma is not a "real" sleeping med, many people do use it off label for sleeping and it does have a direct effect on the CNS - in a different way then sleeping meds but still has an effect. If the Lunesta is helping then stick with that. The Soma can cause alot of dependancy issues so be careful.
Posted by Tracy9 (Member # 7521) on :
I switched straight to Cymbalta with no tapering, therefore no discontinuation syndrome. With tapering you might experience some discomfort of the discontinuation. Going from one antidepressant to another is okay.
I have been on 90 mg Cymbalta for years, it has cut my pain in half and helped my depression immensely; but not until I got up to 90 mg.
Posted by trigal2 (Member # 20578) on :
Everyone is different but the general rule of thumb is to NEVER discontinue any antidepressant suddenly - even if you are switcing over to another one you may still go through a withdrawal syndrome.
If you have active lyme then a potential w/d syndrome would put additional stress on your body and can mirror some lyme/herx symptoms.
While both medications are anti-depressants they effect the brain a bit differently and most of the time ones body does need to adapt from going off of one and going onto another.
Some people are very sensitive to meds and it is possible to go through a w/d syndrome while at the same time experience side effects of a new med until your body is adjusted to it.
Your doctor should guide you in this process to ensure a smooth transition.
Posted by AliG (Member # 9734) on :
quote: I'm serving as my own doc because every doctor in this state thinks I'm nuts with some crazy doc in CA just writing me prx's for the hell of it. I can't make the trips to CA anymore and I can't afford it. My LLMD in CA doesn't really want to treat me anymore since I left the state. Before I moved I was about to try I.V. antibiotics...but didn't.
Can you not find a new LLMD closer to where you are now?
I would not change more than one med at a time.
quote: I've been treating Lyme & Babs for almost 6 years with some improvement that doesn't seem to last.
Perhaps a fresh perspective could be a good thing. I would think that you may have another co-infection such as Bart/BLO that would cause you to relapse.
I didn't actually test positive for Anaplasmosis until after I had been treating Babs & Lyme.
Perhaps it would be helpful to be re-tested.
Posted by MY3BOYS (Member # 17830) on :
ok, apologize for long post, but want to try to help ya here so:
1) cymbalta works as anti-depressant/neuropathic pain, pasted from rxlist.com :"in a group of drugs called selective serotonin and norepinephrine reuptake inhibitors (SSNRIs). Cymbalta affects chemicals in the brain that may become unbalanced and cause depression.
Cymbalta is used to treat major depressive disorder and general anxiety disorder. It is also used to treat a chronic pain disorder called fibromyalgia, and to treat pain caused by nerve damage in people with diabetes (diabetic neuropathy). Cymbalta may also be used for other purposes not listed in this medication guide."
vs. zoloft : Zoloft "belongs to a class of drugs called selective serotonin re-uptake inhibitors (SSRIs). Serotonin is one of the chemical messengers believed to govern moods. Ordinarily, it is quickly reabsorbed after its release at the junctures between nerves. Re-uptake inhibitors such as Zoloft slow this process, thereby boosting the levels of serotonin available in the brain."
so- to compare: cymbalta works on serotonin and norepinepherine where zoloft just serotonin
personally- neuro used cymbalta and neurontin for my neuopathy that has gotten progressivly worse.
over the last yr, i think/theory that while has helped has also caused other neruotransmitter to get "out of whack"
if you want natural alternative: neurorelief.com is section to "find a practitioner"...would do that FIRST, do the testing then let THAT practioner help you switch over....helping me. added "natural" product to incrase dopamine pre-cursor.
CHANGING YOUR OWN MEDS IN THIS CLASS OF MEDS IS VERY, VERY DANGEROUS....please do NOT do this yourself.
2) SOMA- 700mg is hefty dose. soma is highly addictive and have seen patients try to jump over pharmacy counter to attack pharmacist if not refilled !! I take it at night as well- 300mg cheaper bc is generic. no generic for 200 mg. So, dependant on the pain/muscle issues i take 1/2 or 1 tab....i was very reluctant to add this, but the muscle problems are horrible for me Soma has to be tapered VERY slowly....give the slow decrease at least week at a time.
am not knocking meds ur on..i am on cymbalta @ 60 mg, and truck load of other meds !!!
OK- now for trouble with LLMD. I have found acupuncture to be very helpful...i have a rx list that is crazy, and would prob. put a horse down !!!!!! but, still have pain...crazy..
so what about trying some alternative things one at a time to help. took me trying diff. acupuncturists to find "the one". she keeps pricing same no matter what she adds/does in the tx. uses reiki and a chinease med i forget what name is..but is working and helping !!!!
please do not mess with changing meds WITHOUT a medical professionals help...becoming SERVERLY depressed, and suicidal is a REAL possiblity. Have seen this happen.
Posted by lymeHerx001 (Member # 6215) on :
wow
Posted by lymeHerx001 (Member # 6215) on :
I would say that the doxcepin is a trycyclic antidepressant like Elavil.
The Soma is probablly closer to Klonopin so you can switch to those and maybee feel a little better?
Posted by Amanda (Member # 14107) on :
I takemore sleep meds than you do, and at higher doses, and I haven't had any problems.
I do this under the doctors guidance.
Posted by lymeHerx001 (Member # 6215) on :
yes of course, sleep is more improtant then the amount of meds you can take!
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