Throughout this illness, I've had rather sudden episodes of just crashing. There's a couple different types, there's the extreme-dizziness, dis-equilibrium, weak, severe-malaise type.
And there's another. It's like a very severe hypoglycemia type attack. And "attack" is the right word. Very weak, very ill-feeling, profuse sweating, and trembling (with weakness, not nervousness), and some dizziness. It can happen anytime, it seems, whether I've eaten recently or not. I usually do try to eat something as fast as I can, but I'm not sure it even really helps.
Now...I have actually had my blood sugar tested a couple of times when this happened, and it was fine.
Any others have this? And as always, anyone who HAD this and it resolved eventually?
I had a bad one last night, and honestly, I'm still freaked out a bit. I wonder if I did too much yesterday, and this is what happens if I do too much.
Thanks
Posted by btmb03 (Member # 18394) on :
Yes, I have this..badly with "perfect" blood sugar levels (???). I keep almonds on me just to be ready. "Overactivity" can definitely trigger it or make it worse.
I also believe some meds can exacerbate this sx so don't know if you've started a new one. Your sx sound exactly like mine..these hypoglycemic attacks come in clusters, and I can go for days/weeks where it's not as bad.
Hopefully someone will come along for whom treatment has helped. They can be very scary. Hang in there!
Posted by Vermont_Lymie (Member # 9780) on :
I had this too; best to carry food around to raise blood sugar in case it hits.
There seems to be a few triggers for me; some supplements and coffee. But sometimes it is idiopathic, and you just must deal with it.
It has gotten much better for me with long term abx for lyme, so probably there is a relationship.
Posted by LisaS (Member # 10581) on :
I get these weird dizziness attacks too. But when I was still working at the retirement home, I would check my blood sugar and my blood pressure. And both would be fine so I don't know what causes it. Probably different reasons in all of us.
Sometimes I wonder if it's not inflammation in the central nervous system getting worse, but I now it can come and go pretty quickly, so I don't know.
Posted by Annelet (Member # 13503) on :
I get actual Hypoglycemic attacks, when my blood sugar is measured to be very low, even an hour or so after eating. Flagyl and Biaxin definitely tend to prcipitae these attacks.
Thank I get times when i have almost identical symptoms, but my blood sugar is normal. I suspect that this is due to adrenal/cortisol dysfunction. I can't easily distinguish between the two. I have Glucose tabs with me for just in case.
Anne
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
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As mentioned above by Annelet, I also suspect adrenal exhaustion. What is your adrenal support?
Ashwaghanda, Siberian Ginseng, Cordyceps ? B-5? Any and all are excellent and should help if this is from overexertion. I mean taking them as a routine. I don't know about bringing you back from an episode.
You also need the nervous system support of B -vitamins, magnesium and calcium.
yes, I get the same way when my nervous system is over stimulated. I've test glucose at some of those times and it is fine, too. But it sure feels like a hypogly. attack and when this happens, it will take a whole day to set my system even back on any sort of tract.
Nuts, nut butters, berries . . . foods can still help as, you know, I think there are some things going on with our glucose levels that may not actually show up on a simple test.
While I usually avoid dairy, cheese will bring me back sometimes. FIsh oil and nuts may be the better way to go. You need fat, protein and good sugars at times like these. And rest to recover. Then pace yourself as best you can.
Hope this gets better.
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Posted by trigal2 (Member # 20578) on :
I get this as well during my major herx's. One thing I do know is that certain medications can cause reactive hypoglycemia. I forget which one but that happened to me a few years back after a PICC line infection and I had to be on some heavy duty abx and it caused this problem for about 3 months after I stopped the abx.
What helps for me is some Cytomax (sports electroyte drink) and a PowerGel - even though sugar is a no-no for lyme, in cases where I feel my blood sugar drops really fast adn I am going to "bagel", the gel gets into my system very quickly and does help to re-stablize me.
I do recall my Endo. Dr. back then telling me it is not just how low your sugar goes but how fast it drops. It may stay in the low normal range but if the drop is fast then the adrenaline kicks in and you feel all those odd symptoms.
I think Lyme puts such a stress on all parts of our system...Like Keebler said, the Adrenal Glands gets so taxed that they cannot do their job which can and does effect the autonomic nervous system so be sure to support the adrenals. Hope you feel better soon.
Posted by Al (Member # 9420) on :
Lyme Disease Educational Resources
Backwards Blood Pressure by Laura Zeller How many of you suffer from bizarre symptoms that nobody seems to understand? Many thousands of patients, myself included, have at some point been left completely puzzled at the mystery of our unexplained medical conditions. In my earlier article, ``Quest for a Diagnosis,'' I shared my tortured journey towards my diagnosis of Lyme disease. My story represents a small picture of how frustrating it can be to pinpoint the true cause of a medical problem.
Lacking intricate knowledge of complex emerging diseases such as Lyme disease, many physicians become overwhelmed and baffled, and simply give up. Rather than spend the time to accurately diagnose you, they instead label you with something like chronic fatigue syndrome (CFS). This jumbled diagnosis gets them off the hook, and as a result you are left dumbfounded and bewildered as to what the cause of your symptoms is. In my opinion, many physicians give up easily, and ``pass the buck'' on a patient without thoroughly investigating the true nature of the patient's problem.
Before I knew I had Lyme disease, I suffered for years from recurrent spells of lightheadedness and dizziness. ``Zombie mode'' is how I used to describe the mental fog I walked around with every day. Whenever I stood up after sitting for a while, I got a ``head rush,'' and felt woozy and off balance. Hot weather, hot showers, and standing in lines often brought about an increase in my symptoms.
I developed very uncomfortable feelings of anxiety and shakiness after my ``head rushes.'' The dizziness would often get markedly worse after I ate a full meal. This was very odd. I thought the shaky feeling might be stemming from low blood sugar (hypoglycemia). Exercise was impossible due to the exhaustion I experienced afterwards. At times, this post-exertional fatigue would last for 2-3 days. I figured my exhaustion was due to the earlier diagnosis of chronic fatigue syndrome (CFS) my flock of doctors had slapped me with.
Disoriented and exhausted, my mental confusion took on the forms of difficulty in concentrating, slurred speech, and panic attacks. As time went on, I became so weak I could no longer drive my car, and I required assistance with simple tasks. My plethora of doctors decided I had Addison's disease (another wrong diagnosis) and prescribed steroids for 3 years with no resolution. According to my endocrinologist, my adrenals had shut down for ``unexplained reasons.'' It was not until I was correctly diagnosed with Lyme disease that the cause of my strange symptoms was discovered.
Being a brilliant researcher, my Lyme Literate Medical Doctor (LLMD) sent me a cardiologist to have a tilt table test. Gently remarking that Lyme patients are ``backwards'' in nature, my LLMD suspected I might have a form of autonomic dysfunction. A tilt table test is designed to help diagnose neurally mediated hypotension (NMH), also known as vaso-vagal syncope, neurocardiogenic syncope and autonomic dysfunction. The medical terms for fainting and low blood pressure are syncope and hypotension respectively. Tilt table testing is a rather simple concept, but requires supervision by a cardiologist.
I was fortunate to have a very Lyme literate cardiologist administer my test. In fact, before my test began, one of the residents in the room griped that he had never heard of babesiosis, which I listed on my patient history form. My cardiologist gave the resident a look of disappointment while remarking that he should study harder if he wanted to make it in the medical profession. Babesia microti, a piroplasm similar to malaria, is one of the tick-borne diseases that complicated my condition.
My tilt table test began with me lying flat on my back, with blood pressure cuffs on both arms, and heart monitors attached to my chest. Measurements were taken at scheduled intervals as I was transitioned from lying flat into a standing position. To prevent me from fainting, I was secured to the table with safety straps. After being raised to an upright position, and remaining there for several minutes, I was returned to a lying down position. Phase two began with an injection of Isuprel, a drug that simulates a stressful situation, thought to mimic the symptoms I was experiencing. Once the drug took effect, I was again raised to an upright position. My heart rate reached 165, and then suddenly dropped to 65 in one beat, as my blood pressure plummeted from 130/70 to 50/0. I fainted and was out cold until they stopped the test and administered the antidote to the Isuprel. Normal blood pressure is typically 120/70.
It was an exhausting experience, however, this test turned out to be one of the most significant tests and discoveries of my health journey. I had a combined neurocardiogenic and vasopressor response, a double fail. This meant that the Lyme bacteria had inflamed my vagus nerve, which is the major communicator between the heart and brain.
My cardiologist graciously explained that when a healthy person stands up, blood normally pools in the legs due to gravity. To compensate for the lower quantity of blood returning to the heart after standing, the body releases adrenaline. The adrenaline surge makes the heart pump harder and faster, thus allowing the blood to pump quickly back from the extremities to the brain and vital organs.
In neurally mediated hypotension (NMH) there is a miscommunication between the heart and brain. As you stand up, and the heart needs to beat faster, the brain ``misfires'' and sends out the message that the heart rate should be slowed down, and that the blood vessels in the arms and legs should dilate. More blood is taken away from the central part of the circulation where it is needed, and lightheadedness and syncope (fainting) can result. These symptoms occur because the brain is not getting enough blood. Although frightening, fainting can actually help the patient by returning him/her to a flat position, removing the pooling effect of gravity in the extremities, and allowing more blood to return to the heart.
My cardiologist explained that because I had both low blood pressure and the rapid heart rate (tachycardia), I would need a combination of treatments to get my symptoms under control. He recommended Atenolol, a beta-blocker designed to regulate heart rate. I had what he called ``backwards blood pressure'' and he explained how beta-blockers are normally used to control high blood pressure (hypertension).
In addition to the beta-blocker, he recommended I take the antidepressant Zoloft, plus the mineralocorticoid Florinef to help regulate my blood pressure. Florinef works by acting on the kidneys to keep increase blood volume, thereby increasing blood pressure. Along with the Atenolol, Zoloft and Florinef, my cardiologist suggested I add more salt to my diet, avoid dairy products, alcohol, and caffeine. He also mentioned how essential it would be for me to drink at least 2 quarts of water per day, and double that amount in warmer weather.
I also learned some basic techniques to help me manage my NMH better. Simple posture, it turns out, had a lot to do with the degree of symptoms I felt. Crossing and elevating my legs would help stop blood pooling in my feet. Using cooler water while showering sitting in a chair would help prevent episodes of NMH brought on by the heat. The bizarre dizziness I experienced after eating was due to the blood moving to my digestive system. Eating smaller, more frequent meals helped resolve that uncomfortable symptom. Using a motorized scooter in the supermarket, or shopping during off hours would help prevent the standing in lines that brought about the blood pooling and anxiety/shakiness. The fainting reflex could be activated whenever I stood upright for a period of time. As my LLMD later explained, the Lyme bacteria were the cause of the NMH, and the cause of the inflammation of my vagus nerve.
Determined to always seek the cause, I was relieved to gain understanding of such a commonly misdiagnosed disorder. Just to be clear, some physicians will talk about NMH as if it is a disease. Actually, it is a functional disorder that clinically indicates something much greater. In my case, in order to treat the NMH, I first had to aggressively treat my Lyme disease with antibiotics. By reducing the inflammation caused by the infection, the symptoms of NMH would, in turn, resolve. The medications and dietary changes I had to make would help control the symptoms.
Different treatments for NMH are available, and there is no single course of treatment that will work for everybody. It took several years of antibiotic treatment to get my NMH under control. I tolerated the beta-blocker and the Zoloft well. The Florinef helped me for a short while, but I had to discontinue it due to side effects. As my condition improved, the medication doses were tapered down gradually. I discontinued Zoloft, and reduced the beta-blocker to half a pill in the morning. My tolerance to heat, exercise and prolonged standing improved greatly. Lowimpact exercise with weight training and yoga gave me back enough strength to walk on a hot Caribbean beach without symptoms.
Based on my experience, I know there are plenty of folks out there suffering from NMH without a clue as to what is going on with their bodies. If you are experiencing symptoms of lightheadedness, dizziness, shakiness, brain fog, and intolerance to exercise, ask your doctor about the possibility of NMH. It might be a good idea to see a cardiologist and have a tilt table test. It has been speculated that NMH may be the cause of chronic fatigue syndrome and fibromyalgia. Although I agree that NMH causes one to feel extremely fatigued, the cause of the dysfunction must be investigated.
NMH can be difficult to explain, even to medical professionals. In simple terms, although in reality it is more complicated, you can call it orthostatic intolerance, low blood pressure, or syncope. Most medical staff should understand that basic medical terminology.
Whenever I had to list my medications for a doctor visit for whatever reason, nurses always assumed I had high blood pressure because I was on a betablocker. Time after time I had to correct that inaccurate presumption, and explain the neurological technicalities of NMH. It is sadly entertaining because the paid professionals are supposed to be taking care of me, and there I was, educating them!
As I have mentioned in previous articles, I cannot stress enough the vital importance of educating yourself about your medical condition. Ask questions, take notes, research and arm yourself with as much detailed information as you possibly can. It is my hope that my story can help you on your journey towards perfect health.
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
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Al,
Thanks so much for posting that article. I was dx with NMH about 15 years ago but just sort of told to eat more salt. I fainted so many times I started wearing clothes that only would match the sidewalk.
Lyme dx 12 years ago but never had a doctor (no LLMD) who understood my inability to stand for long.
Even reading this now sets of many light bulbs. Thank you.
I was curious of the origin of the article and found it at Public Health Alert:
- lots of other great articles come from PHA. I was glad to see it again after forgetting about it.
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Posted by kareamber (Member # 20110) on :
These hypoglycemic "like" attacks have been torturing me for awhile now. I've been having a lot of them this past week. Sometimes several a day. They are super scary. I get super weak, dizzy, heavy, and can barely move. However, I don't sweat, or have an increased heart rate. I told my LLMd this and he told me to eat 6 small meals a day instead of the 3 larger ones. But it doesn't help. I think like Keebler says, it's something to do with the adrenals.
Anyone have ideas on how to support the adrenals??
Posted by trigal2 (Member # 20578) on :
There is a book that includes tx protocols based on individual symtoms called; From Fatigued to Fantastic by; Jacob Teitelbaum, MD. If you google it you will come across the website.
The book addresses CSF, Fibro., and Neuro-toxins. He talks alot about supporting the adrenals and recommends supplement etc.
While our primary dx may not be CFS, lyme certainly knocks the adrenals down and out. I have used his recommendations a number of times when the fatigue has gotten so bad and it does seem to help a bit.
Remember that the adrenals DO effect the way your bocy is metabolising food and blood sugar etc.. The adrenals are responsible for so many autonomic body responses and blood sugar is one of them. So it very well may be secondary to adrenal fatigue.
When needed, I take Adrenal Stress End made by Integrative Therapeutics but I start with a low dose and build over time. There are alot of good suggestions in the book, IMO. TG
Posted by DeniseNM (Member # 11182) on :
I think this might be what has been happening to me. The attacks are coming a few hours after eating, and if I eat, it seems to settle down some.
I think I'm having my first herx and that's what is setting it off. yuck.
Getting an EEG next week to rule out seizures.
Posted by Pinelady (Member # 18524) on :
I am having this now on f. It only happens when I eat. I feel ok and eat then I have to lay down. I feel like I need to quit eating all together. As it does not seem to matter what it is I eat.
Posted by trigal2 (Member # 20578) on :
DeniseNM; My Endo Doc told me that with reactive hypo. it usally happens within 2-3 hours after eating. So maybe that is what is going on with you???
My bloodsugar never dropped too low but it dropped fast and that was the problem. I was told to yes, eat smaller meals and no big carb meals all at once. If I did boy would I get into big trouble.
I am in the middle of a herx as well and am having some small issues with it again. I carry a Powergel with me and some CytomMax at all times -it helps to lessen the fear.
You might want to look at supporting your adreals in the meantime - any help they can get will help! TG
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
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This is also an important thread to study, especially the work by Dr. Paul Cheney, Lerner and Peckerman.
Great information here not just about what might be happening but what can be done to help: