Thank you, Barb
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- Unless you need a tincture for some specific purpose, it's best to go with capsules to avoid the alcohol as that can be very hard on anyone's liver. There is on LLMD who doesn't want his patients taking any tinctures as he says the alcohol used is just too damaging to a patient's liver.
Mushroom are best not in tincture form, too.
Something like scullcap (skullcap) - used for relaxation - is only effective in tincture form.
It's a partial myth that boiling water can remove alcohol - as for some tinctures that use "aerial parts" such as leaves and flowers, the boiling water can ruin the medicinal value. For twigs, roots and rhizomes, hot water is okay and can help but it won't dissipate all the alcohol.
It can help a bit to put a tincture in a large mug with some slightly warm water and swirling it around so that the air gets to it. But, unless there is a specific reason to choose tincture, it's best to avoid the alcohol.
GAIA Herbs, Source Naturals, Planetary Formulas are just a few of the top brands you might search for capsule formulas at either www.vitacost.com or www.iherb.com
Also look to Rain-Tree at www.rain-tree.com - They are excellent in many ways.
If you do need a tincture, Herb Pharm is one of the best brands. -
Posted by eightybarb (Member # 24968) on :
Thank you Keebler.
What brand do you suggest. I think I have read one of your thread saying 'Tiger' something but I did not recall and not able to retrieve the link.
I want something to support my liver and kidneys. Barb
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- I don't use Milk Thistle but, rather, a Bupleurum formula (as I've found one that helps lessens seizures and it's redundant for me to then add milk thistle since bupleurum has similar properties for liver support).
"Tiger" rings no bell. Hmmmm. I'll have to give it some thought.
Ohhhh. White Tiger. Yes, part of ITM (and Pine Mountain). I'm not sure of their liver support ones with Pine Mountain but I'll look through my book. It could take me a while, though.
The one I'm most familiar with by White Tiger is Myrolea-B, an Olive Leaf Extract formula.
Topic: TINNITUS: Ringing Between The Ears; Vestibular, Balance, Hearing with compiled links - including HYPERACUSIS -
Posted by eightybarb (Member # 24968) on :
Oh yeah Myrolea-B, it is for Olive Leaf extract right I thouhgt it is for Milk Thistle.
Ok I am looking for Milk Thistle. Will read the link you have given. Thank you
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
From the library at Vitamin Research Products -- Many articles on Olive Leaf Extract with good 3rd party documentation and a list of sources at the end of each article.
You can also use this VRP site to search for many supplements and some herbs.
-------------- An Olive Leaf formula (that contains Terminalia chebula):
My ND (naturopathic doctor) recommended MYROLEA B. Most naturopathic doctors and acupuncturists know about the Seven Forest formulas. As this is a combination formula, there are ingredients included to help the body with "clearing heat" and metabolizing toxins.
Myrolea-B (White Tiger) is a simple formulation of highly concentrated extracts from four Chinese herbs and one Western herb.
The Chinese herbs include forsythia and lonicera, two of the key ingredients of Ilex 15 (and the main antiviral ingredients of Yin Qiao Jie Du Pian), thus boosting the dosage of these essential ingredients.
Myrolea-B also contains the antiviral agents scute (huangqin) and terminalia (hezi). The Western herb in this formulation is olive leaf, which is one of the primary anti-viral herbs derived from the European tradition.
SHUANGHUANGLIAN: Potent Anti-Infection Combination of Lonicera, Forsythia, and Scute - by Subhuti Dharmananda, Ph.D., Director, Institute for Traditional Medicine - 2003
Shuanghuanglian (SHL for short) is a modern formula that was devised in the 1960s to treat a variety of infections. It is comprised of the alcohol-water extracts of three herbs: lonicera (shuanghua, often called jinyinhua), scute (huangqin), and forsythia (lianqiao). . . .
. . . One of the early preparations of the SHL was a tablet made of equal proportions of the extracts of each herb. This was used to treat leptospirosis, a disorder caused by a spirochete bacteria, related to the organism that causes Lyme disease.
Leptospirosis causes initial symptoms of fever and chills, headache, and muscle ache (especially in the shoulders); these are consistent with "flu-like" symptoms described for the onset of many acute infections.
In a 1971 report, the formula was described as being made in 500 mg tablets derived from 3.7 grams of the crude herbs, and being administered in doses of 10-15 tablets (thus, equivalent to the extract of 37-55 grams of herbs) every 6 hours (1), a very high dosage.
. . . Recently, Shuanghuanglian has been applied successfully to treatment of Coxsackie B3,
. . . The general indications for SHL . . . are "relieving the exterior syndrome, clearing away heat and toxic material," and its indications are "treatment of fever, cough, and sore throat that arise from wind-heat syndrome."
It is said to have "a good action in treating upper respiratory tract infection, tonsillitis, laryngopharyngitis, pneumonia, acute enteritis, viral dysentery, etc., when caused by virus or bacterial infection."
- full article at link above.
- Detail from two of the most reputable sources of OLE:
Die-off effects -- Olive leaf use causes the death of microbes. The liver, kidneys, intestines and skin are therefore tested to their limits, to deal with, and remove them. This causes Herxheimers Reaction, which can have a variety of symptoms, but basically makes one feel ill or under the weather due to a treatment's effect upon the body.
Thus, "die-off," referred to in medicine as the "Herxheimer reaction," occurs when the olive leaf components kills large numbers of harmful germs rather quickly. Then, the patient's membranes absorb toxic products from these dead microorganisms.
The large amount of foreign antigens triggers an increasing immune response, in addition to interfering with usual biochemical processes, and these immune effects can temporarily worsen a person's symptoms. . . .
Symptoms The symptoms include fatigue, diarrhea, muscle and joint pains, headaches, rashes, flu-like symptoms and even pimples.
These symptoms indicate that the herb is working and that a range of microbes and toxins have been eliminated and are in the process of being removed from your system. These symptoms can be reduced by increasing your fluid intake - but if they persist, reduce the dosage.
. . . . See details at link:
* Safety Precautions and * Known Drug Interactions
Side Effects: Olive leaves have been used safely for thousands of years. The only known side-effect is the possibility of a Herxheimer reaction, an allergic response caused by the rapid die-off of fungi that release toxins which may temporarily cause a brief allergic reaction, lasting for several days. -
Posted by eightybarb (Member # 24968) on :
Thank you very much Keebler. I got Nature's way OLE.
I am making notes from the Liver Support links that you have posted.
Do you suggest any particular brand of Milk Thistle. Barb
Posted by GiGi (Member # 259) on :
We have used LiverLife through all detox phases and prefer tinctures by a long shot - for absorption. I also prefer to alternate to avoid becoming allergic to any substance contained in any remedy or supplement, and we use Ayush Livit 2. All work very well to keep things moving.
Take care.
Posted by momlyme (Member # 27775) on :
Nice link GiGi! Your experience sounds positive too and I respect your opinion.
I just ordered the LiverLife and the NDF Plus on the advice of my LLMD.
Anyone else have experience with these?
Posted by sparkle7 (Member # 10397) on :
I took the liver life but I didn't really notice any overt improvement. I also bought the NDF plus but I haven't taken it. I dowse everything to see if I need it & it's been "no".
Too bad, it was expensive. I think I ordered it before I started dowsing everything.
I think their products are a bit expensive. I also tried Dr. Schulze's L-GB (liver - gall bladder, I suppose) which is similar but cheaper if I recall correctly.
I didn't notice any overt improvements from either product but I'm not sure if one would. I may be an individual thing.
Posted by NanaDubo (Member # 14794) on :
I've been using LiverLife for a long time. I like it a lot and it can help drain acid wastes and also works to decongest the liver and kidneys.
Posted by momlyme (Member # 27775) on :
sparkle - do you hold the bottle when you dowse or do you ask a question?
NanaDubo - I definitely think my liver and kidneys are congested.
Can't wait to start! UPS says they will be here Wednesday. SLOW!
Posted by NanaDubo (Member # 14794) on :
Bioray products are slightly less expensive there. They are in OH so shipping time would be quicker too.
Posted by momlyme (Member # 27775) on :
Hi NanaDubo - I checked out the link. I am happy to say, http://www.bioraynaturaldetox.com has better prices if you use the code AUTISMFILE
It was either 15% or 20% off the NDF Plus... sorry can't remember which.
Posted by NanaDubo (Member # 14794) on :
good news! Maybe I'll take advantage of their sale.
Posted by chiquita incognita (Member # 30381) on :
I second Keebler's post above about alchohol! Amen, and amen. I try to avoid it whenever I can.
Glycerin is also a modified form of alchohol, very much related to it.
Powdered extracts are a solution. These are extracts which are done in alchohol to concentrate the herbal constituents, but from which the alchohol has finally been removed. This is done in several ways, one method is to spray a very fine mist of the extract down a lit-up tube. The mist evaporates in the light, leaving only the powdered, concentrated herb behind.
The end result is a concentrated herbal product without any alchohol or glycerin left in it.
The powdered extracts last about one year on the shelf, whereas the alchohol and glycerin extracts may last up to three years. That's part of the reason why most herbal companies use the liquid extracts. It takes a great deal of extra steps to make a powdered extract, so by definition it also has to be more expensive.
Paradise Herbs is one of my favorite brands, and they do almost nothing but powdered extracts. With zero binders, fillers, etc just the capsules and the concentrated ,powdered herb. That's it. So they are truly hypo-allergenic. Most of their herbs are sold singly, which is good for testing your responses to an herb.
Ultimately, studies have shown that blends work better than single herbs. However, with the concentrated single herb, you may very well get a good response.
GAIA, HerbPharm, Paradise Herbs, New Chapter Organics, WishGarden Herbs, Planetary Herbals, and other top brands are very conscientious about a) checking for heavy metal content b) growing their own herbs organically, or ethically hand-harvesting without destroying the herbal population c) not using chemicals in their processing methods
So all of the above brands are excellent quality.
This is not a complete list, and there are other brands which are just as good.
Orac Energy Greens by Paradise Herbs---contains mixed cereal grasses, medicinal mushrooms, adaptogens for the adrenals, goji/acai/blueberry/pomegranate as anti-oxidants, and more....I recommend this for people who are tired but *not* wired. Those who are wired, or who have lyme-related nerve agitation,electrical sensations, etc....I would caution to avoid the adaptogens and medicinal mushrooms.
GAIA makes an alchohol-based detox product which is very well formulated, called Milk Thistle Yellow Dock. (Note: There is a slim chance the oregon grape root in the formula, which contains berberine, may contribute mildly to some herxing). I wish it was not in an alchohol base, but the herbs are also best preserved in alchohol. Hence this practice.
Bupleurum and milk thistle work very differently from each other, to comment on Keebler's post above.
Bupleurum smoothes the sailing of the qi through the liver. So for those who have symptoms such as...eratic mood changes, neurological symptoms which come and go, digestive matters which also come and go....the key words here are "Come and go"...that would be called Liver Wind in Traditional Chinese Medicine terms. Bupleurum smoothes out liver wind, so that energy flows steadily through the liver and symptoms smoothe out accordingly. Such is the aim, anyway.
Milk thistle is very different from that. It has been studied and proven again and again, to block the liver's uptake of toxins from the poison aminita mushroom (and other toxins, heavy metals, etc) and thus is classified as a liver protectant. It aids the regeneration of new liver cells, and has been seen to smooth out enzymes in liver cirrhosis and hepatitis patients.
Other herbs detoxify the liver, such as dandelion root, burdock, artichoke leaf, fringe tree bark, oregon grape root, yarrow, coptis...
Those herbs in the above paragraph are also liver "Cooling" herbs in "heat" conditions, according to Traditional Chinese Medicine terms. Oregon grape root in particular is very, very cooling and so are coptis and fringe tree bark. Use cautiously in damp or sluggish conditions, and best used in inflammation, irritation, over-burdened or other "hot" conditions. Note that oregon grape root and coptis both contain berberine, which could possibly contribute to some herxing.
Coptis is very, very calming to agitated nerves, useful with anxiety related to lyme. Not for longterm use in sluggish conditions, but excellent for "cooling" a "hot" liver.
Mugwort, artemesia, wormwood other very bitter herbs may be more "warming" to the liver and are best suited to damp, sluggish conditions.
Sources for further reading:
Natural Therapy for your Liver (book) Foundations of Health (Book) Healing with Whole Foods (book)
Best wishes, CI
The above information has not been evaluated by the FDA and is not intended to diagnose, prevent or cure any disease. Drugs and herbs may interact, talk with your doctor. The word "Cure" is not being claimed in any of the text above. This is for adjunct support.
Posted by canefan17 (Member # 22149) on :
How did you guys dose this?
Posted by canefan17 (Member # 22149) on :