Anyone ever think there is a connection with your illness and a past root canal procedure?
I have had nothing but problems with one of my molars since having root canal. I have been especially bad this week with lyme, babesia and bartonella symptoms but noticed my molar and that whole area is acting up.
-Rich
Posted by seekhelp (Member # 15067) on :
GiGi will probably.
Posted by NanaDubo (Member # 14794) on :
My (biological) Dentist says root canals are not recommended procedures for Lyme patients.
Posted by Haley (Member # 22008) on :
I had several root canals and re-treated root canals after being infected (didn't know I was infected at the time). I'm am afraid that I will probably need to pull a few teeth.
If anyone knows a good biological dentist in southern Ca. let me know.
[ 06-12-2010, 02:22 PM: Message edited by: Haley ]
Posted by GiGi (Member # 259) on :
quote:Originally posted by mojo: My (biological) Dentist says root canals are not recommended procedures for Lyme patients.
Too late for that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I HAD THIS DONE LOOOOONG BEFORE I HAD ANY SYMPTOMS!
So, for someone like me who has had root canal in the past and still has pain in that area....what to do? Have it extracted? That can in itself lead to other problems. Plus it must be done correctly.
Posted by NanaDubo (Member # 14794) on :
I had some root canals years before I got lyme and one tooth ALWAYS bothered me. I had that root canal tooth extracted by biological dentist and he had to go into my sinus to clean up the mess. There, he removed a cyst!! I had all root canal teeth removed as they all tested as being infected.
Yes, it must be done correctly.
Posted by Dawn in VA (Member # 9693) on :
What are the options? Just pulling out teeth? I understand the dangers of root canals and are certainly not FOR them; what do to in lieu of?
Posted by randibear (Member # 11290) on :
i had a root canal years ago, must have been 10 or more, that got infected.
i went on vacation anyway!!! dumb me.
had to go to a dentist in albuquerque. i was really a mess and all he could do ws give me abx until i got back.
i went to my normal dentist and i ended up going to a surgeon who had to redo the entire thing, and scrape the bone and everything.
man, was i sick....
Posted by berneck1 (Member # 24803) on :
Interesting discussion... Can someone explain to me what a "biological dentist" is? How do they differ from a regular dentist....
I'm curious because a little over a year ago my symptoms of Lyme came on like a freight train. It was shortly after an old root canal failed and got infected... It took a year to get diagnosed, and I always felt the infection had something to do with it... My LLMD suspects I've had Lyme for a long time, but never really experienced any symptoms until the infected tooth pushed my immune system over the edge!
Posted by Brussels (Member # 13480) on :
I had 2 old root canals (about 20 year old). One had bothered me too for years, about 10 years, a sort of dull pain. The other felt nothing.
My two practioners pushed me to pull the 2 off BECAUSE my lyme disease kept coming back. It took me one whole year to decide as none of the dentists I kept visiting recommended to pull them out. They said, they saw NOTHING in the X-rays, so why pull?
Well, after one year pondering, I decided to pull both off. The surgeon could not believe HOW infected my roots were, my jawbone... It was VERY visible to the naked eye, full of pus. But no single dentist I visited before had seen it, not even the surgeon who pulled them out.
My bones were affected, so I had 2 full blown cavitations that went undetected for years. The other tooth, I felt nothing and it had also a 'cyst' with pus inside.
So, the day I had them pulled off and my bone cleaned by a normal surgeon (but who was guiding the surgeon was my lyme doctor), the dull pain DISAPPEARED never to return. Until today. the 10 year dull pain simply vanished. And it felt good!!
But even the one that never felt pain, I was glad to have it pulled.
the problem is what to do after? Implants are not recommended. So I had to do a partial. But then, what materials? So once you pull the teeth, it's a lot of energetic tests that have to go on to find out the right combination of materials to build your partial.
when a dentist tell me about root canal, I freeze. I went recently to a dentist and he said, root canal treatment! I said, 'no'. Just open, clean any leak, and close it, please. The guy got angry at me!
I'm treating this tooth by myself (so far I found 3 different strains of infections through energetic tests), and will try to save the tooth with ozone or other treatments, because I fear root canals more than anything.
Just look at your lyme friends. They will probably have bad teeth, at least one root canal, maybe had amalgams (or still have) etc.
I see today a clear connection between teeth health / jaw health and overall health of a person. Bad teeth = more probability to fall sick with infections or even cardiac diseases!
My opinion, of course.
If you do energetic tests to find out what pathogens thrive in your teeth and roots, you'll be surprised. The list can be enormous. I usually find more in my mouth than in my GI tract! Even now, that I no longer have lyme for more than a year, I still find infections in my teeth, here and then.
Just see the dozens, hundreds of posts about dental problems here in LN. Once you get lyme, the teeth health collapse. What comes first, I guess it's like the chicken-egg story...
Posted by richedie (Member # 14689) on :
Brussels,
I am having another energetic testnext month. I am going to mention my tooth. I have had off and on dull pain in my muller or the gum around around where I had root canal....tonight it hurts so bad I need root canal to sleep. Dentists and Endodontists I see locally tell me the X-Rays look great and they won't touch it!!!
I can't afford to go to a dentist to have it pulled because insurance will not cover. Plus there is talk and proof that the other teeth can soon die after a tooth is pulled due to improper lymph drainage.
What to do.
Posted by mattnapa (Member # 26414) on :
If you have a root canal tooth extracted watch out. Mine was two hours of hell. Make sure you get an oral surgeon who knows what they are doing. If it does not go well you should probably leave the option for general anasthesia open. I think I got a good feel for torture from that one
Posted by NanaDubo (Member # 14794) on :
A good dentist makes all the difference. The biological dentist that pulled my root canal teeth, told me to take a few minutes to give thanks to those teeth for trying for so long and ask to them to let go now.
Those teeth almost came out effortlessly and they were not at all loose.
I had one tooth removed before that by my old dentist and it was torture - came out in a million pieces and he left it a mess. That one had to get cleaned up too.
Posted by richedie (Member # 14689) on :
I have the names of a few great oral surgeons for this procedure, but I would want to be knocked OUT for the procedure! I know it has to be packed in abx after removed.
But what about the thought that the surrounding teeth will die after a tooth is removed!?
Posted by steelbone (Member # 14014) on :
I had mine pulled after dr jernigan said they where harbouring the infection.
When my root canals where pulled the biological dentist said they where full of bacteria....
I actually remember her saying when she pulled them NO WONDER WHY YOUR SO SICK....
BTW- I went to he same dentist as nana. It was a piece of cake. I had two root canals pulled and 7 fillings replaced in one sitting. I was sedated. Woke up the next day with a slight headache since i was sedate for 7-8hrs. Overall it was so easy and i have only felt better since doing it
Posted by NanaDubo (Member # 14794) on :
None of my removals were packed in abx or I would not have done it. They gave me a homeopathic remedy if I had any pain and an herbal tincture to keep any infection out. I had no problem with infection or dry socket. I have not had a problem with surrounding teeth and have a partial.
Like Paul, I chose to be sedated as I was there two days in a row. One for amalgam removal and one for the root canals.
That's a long time in the chair and it is easier for them and was for me in the long run to not be all tensed up. Conscious sedation is not like be knocked out.
I opted to not have to keep going back and got it all done in those two days.
They are in MA, might be worth the trip.
HI PAUL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted by Brussels (Member # 13480) on :
X rays mean almost zero for cavitations. At least, in my case, after visiting 5 different dentists, that`s what they all told me, I got nothing there.
When the last one saw what was under the pulled teeth, he was really surprised with pockets of infection inside.
Very visible to the naked eye in both teeth.
I didn`t take any abx for the procedure either. Zero. The two teeth came out so easily. It was very fast, I guess the infection under made the bone like jelly.
It took longer to clean the teeth and smash them to prepare a homeopathic nosode for myself, with all infections that were present there in both teeth. Pulling took about 2 minutes or so.
I almost felt no pain after the procedure, just swelling on my face. No infection, nothing. But my lyme doctor was following me the whole way.
For people who don`t believe in homeopathy, I tell you, I was very sick with re-infection on top of my chronic lyme, herxing non-stop.
I was given two homeopathic substances before the surgery, then after it , continued with nosodes plus the same homeopathics. I asked my doctor to give me antibiotic, just in case. He prescribed me one, that I never used.
The surgery was easy. I just didn`t know I couldnt take cold water after. It caused me very strong pain. Eating for a few days after was pain. But the dull pain went out the moment the dentist took out the infected part during anesthetic. I could FEEL he was touching the affected area!!!
so everything I took were homeopathics and a local anesthetic.
I don`t think that letting infection there would be a better solution than halting procedure for fear of loosing other teeth.
I would try ozone injections, if I had no other way to treat the teeth. But one needs quite a few to get infection under control. And anyway, the tooth will need to be controlled every now and then.
Ozone injections in Switzerland cost about 2-3 dollars for a shot. The whole machine to give ozone injections in the teeth cost about 1,500 to 2,000 dollars if my memory is good.
then one needs a course to know where to apply injections and what to use in the shots. My doctor used procaine plus ozone. I`m sure any practioner could start doing that rather easily if they wanted to.
You pay the price of practioner, not of treatment that is very inexpensive, if you see what I mean.
Posted by JOLA (Member # 23498) on :
Two and 1/2 yrs. ago I had a bridge done. Had to have two good teeth crowned to make bridge. I told my dentist and hubby that I never felt the same afterward. Constant head pressure and stiff neck - diagnosed 1 year later w/Lyme. I have many x-rays that show nothing and yet I am on the verge of having the whole thing removed. Any thoughts?
Posted by berneck1 (Member # 24803) on :
I had an old root canal that failed and got massively infected. About a month later my symptoms came on like a freight train. It took several ER visits, and many doctors over the course of a year to finally figure out that it was Lyme. I got a very good LLMD about two months ago and he's convinced it was the tooth that triggered the Lyme, and that I've probably had it in my system for a while. I probably told 20 other doctors about that infected tooth, and they all dismissed it. The LLMD was the only one who took it seriously. So begins my journey to getting better, and getting my dental work redone...
Posted by mattnapa (Member # 26414) on :
Brussels- Thanks for the info on Ozone. I have heard some things about this. I have a cuple of problem teeth and am heading to a supposed holistic dentist to delt with these and have my amlgams removed startin in a couple of weeks, so I will be interested in his thoughts on this
Posted by hadlyme (Member # 6364) on :
Plain and simple. A good dentist or endodontist doing a good endo procedure will last your life time. If you go to a bad dentist and he doesn't get to the apex of the roots, then yes, you will, in time, have problems with that root canal therapy. Lyme has nothing to do with that...
And if you see a dentist that wants to extract perfectly good teeth, then we call them 'quacks' right along with med. dr.'s that do not treat lyme.
Arm yourself with knowledge in all aspects. Not all things in our bodies are related to Lyme. Always ask your LLMD, if he's a honest one too, what is his opinion is before you start extracting teeth. Your alternative will be to have plastic/acrylic in your mouth. Are you sure your not sensitive to that product too?
Just be smart with these types of decisions. Remember, there are dr's and dentists out there that would love to make money on your naivety.
Ok, I'm sure I'll get hammered for this post! ) Just be smart...
Posted by richedie (Member # 14689) on :
So what to do about my previous root canal that mow causes tons of pain? I called my biological dentists for a recommendation on someone to look at me and maybe pull my root canaled tooth that causes nothing but pain.....
Posted by hadlyme (Member # 6364) on :
When a dentist doesn't get all the nerve out of the root, this is when things blowup with pain. In dental terms, it needs to be retreated to get to the apex (end of the root tip) and clean the walls of each root properly.
If it's a molar, it could have an extra root that wasn't found, and that would be an 'oh opps' on that first dentist that didn't find that. If thats the case. A good endo will be able to clean it all out and seal it. Blood vessels in your jaw, upper and lower, fed the teeth when they were alive.
Once endodontic treated, if there is part of the nerve still in there, then yes, it can be like a plugged oil well and be painfully full of pressure and infection, whether you are a lymie or not.
I wouldn't extract a tooth if you don't have to. Treated right and sealed correctly, it will last you. Again, finding a good dr/dentist is everything. If anyone's root canals still hurt after having them done, its because of how it was treated... not correctly.
Posted by richedie (Member # 14689) on :
Mine is a molar. How do you know if it was treated correctly? I went to my regular dentist who does not do many root canals but did mine and said it was easy. I then went to another endo who took XRays and said it looks fine but said I was grinding my teeth so had a mouth guard made which I always wear.
Now, my endo and an oral surgeon said to me that bacteria can tend to become trapped under the dead tooth and proliferate and has removed teeth that were very infected causing systemic issues...so it can happen.
Posted by steelbone (Member # 14014) on :
I would go see a good biological dentist.
Mine is probably a 4-5 hr ride for you
Posted by richedie (Member # 14689) on :
I have a bio dentist up the street.
Posted by hadlyme (Member # 6364) on :
Richedie, It sounds like something needs to be retreated, and seeing this bio dentist might be what you are looking for. If something is still painful, something is not right. My 23yrs of dental tell me that it wasn't done correct the first time. IF a dentist perferates the apex, something like another type of infection can arise. But can't diagnoise over the internet, seeing someone will be your best bet. Try to save you teeth if you can. I have had lyme for over 20 years....I have endo treated teeth, done correcty, and no problems what so ever. Best wishes.
Posted by richedie (Member # 14689) on :
I have asked my biological dentist for a recomendation because the last guy I saw looked at XRays and said it is fine and fitted me for a mouth guard and sent me on my way....pain and all!
Posted by Haley (Member # 22008) on :
I have several root canals that have problems. It seems to me that the ones I have problems with are the ones that were done after I contracted Lyme (I didn't know it was Lyme at the time, thought I had a spider bite).
I have 3 teeth that were re-treated by a top endodontist and I still have problems with them. The pain has become facial pain it's not really tooth pain as all the nerves are gone.
I have always thought that people that pull their teeth are nuts but I am confident that these teeth are a problem.
Before the retreatment my endodontist told me it was psychological. I went to a facial pain expert that did a special type of x-ray. It showed that there was severe infection. When the endo opened the tooth he said the infection was coming from the outside of the tooth in (not sure what that meant).
I am the last person that wants to have teeth pulled but I don't think there are too many options for me.
Posted by 'Kete-tracker (Member # 17189) on :
I had a root canal done, on an upper 6-yr molar, over 35 years before I was infected w/ Lyme, at the end of Hi-school. The DDS had to re-open the tooth to fill a tiny 4th root he'd missed the 1st time in. (The cause of post-procedure gum swelling.)
I've never had a problem with the tooth since the '70s... and I made it thru the acute stage of my Lyme a few years back w/o it acting up. (Minor early-A.M. neuropathy now in the limbs, but Dr. R in NYC, thinks that's likely a co-infection that was never properly addressed.)
My question is: Is there any reason to extract this "dead tooth" if it never acted up while I was so sick (with Lyme) a few years back??
My only plan Now is to [eventually] replace all the silver/ mercury fillings I've amassed over the years... mostly in my youth. :-/~ (All this as part of a "de-tox" program I'm embarking on.)
Posted by hadlyme (Member # 6364) on :
Kete'tracker... I really wouldn't extract that tooth if it's not bothering you. There are some that might believe you're harboring bacteria in there. But with what I know about dental AND lyme, if it's not hurting you, please don't extract it.
Richie... the mouthguard thing has me wondering that they must have felt you were grinding to make you teeth hurt. Referred pain can happen with that. If you grind so hard that you impact your tooth in it's 'space' then it really can hurt. You have periodontal ligaments holding your tooth into the bone. When these ligaments are stressed from biting down or clenching, they get inflamed and really hurt. It will make it feel that when you chew, you hit that tooth first and want to scream. It's like it's come out of it's socket, so to speak and you hit it first when chewing. It will feel painful and will feel like a toothache. Maybe that's what they think is going on.... as they are seeing xrays and seeing nothing.. again, I am guessing as I haven't seen anything in person like they have.
Posted by richedie (Member # 14689) on :
Well, I have been using the mouth guard for grinding, now for years and still I have the pain off and on. What gives?
My biological dentist said that no mater what, in most cases an infection will grow unchecked under the dead tooth. It is a perfect breeding ground. A friend of mine went through the same thing. X-Rays showed nothing. He went and had the tooth pulled anyway and the oral surgeon said that even the jaw was infected!
Posted by Cass A (Member # 11134) on :
I got X-rays done of my one tooth with a root canal, and it was clear that the roots were not cleaned out clear to the ends. It was a molar, and two of the three roots in it had been incompletely cleaned out.
When I had the tooth taken out, the oral surgeon needed to handle the cavitation in the bone, as there was infection under the tooth.
Hope this helps.
Cass A
Posted by richedie (Member # 14689) on :
So do I see an oral surgeon or endo? Posted by lymeboy (Member # 24769) on :
rehashing this post.....I have at least 5 root canals in my mouth. I have already lost one tooth. Is the removal of a root canal the same as removing a tooth? I am not removing 5 teeth. In fact I have been considering an implant....is this a definite, HAS to be done thing in treating Lyme?
Posted by GiGi (Member # 259) on :
You should not implant a tooth into a toxic mouth/jawbone. I had 12 root canals which over time ate my jawbone away - never had a symptom except more and more dead teeth. I think pathogens liked it in there - a perfect milieu. Only when you clean up your teeth, jawbone, etc. can the toxic metals be released from there and bugs leave and area can start to heal. I am now still detoxing the mercaptan produced by root canals, a carcinogen similar to Mustard Gas, that has moved all over in my body.
When Dr. K. gets a patient with breast cancer and even one root canal, his recommendation is removal. They are dead teeth.
If you want to get well, read all you can find on the subject. I am alive today and very well after a severe Lyme Disease because I no longer have root canals in my mouth and surgeries to remove what they left behind. By the way, I had the root canals long before I got the insect bite. Give it some thought! A lot of thought.
Take care, and I wish you the very best.
Posted by GiGi (Member # 259) on :
If you have to lose a tooth while you still are under the weather, get a good partial out of carbon-based material and get well first. If you have to lose another tooth due to the dental infections, add it to the partial if you can.
Bridges and more bridges to fill in lost teeth damage more teeth.
Make sure you are not allergic to the metals - most people are --- and therefore cannot detox these neurotoxin. Find out through Allergie Immun. www.allergie-immun.com Any attempt to detox will fail unless you correct the allergies correcting the DNA. Very easy to do and not expensive considering the money wasted on unsuccessful cleanups, and then you have a chance.
If your body cannot regulate certain metals any longer, it cannot detox many of the related toxins nor the metals.
Take care.
Posted by lymeboy (Member # 24769) on :
crap.
Posted by cordor (Member # 9449) on :
ditto that lymeboy.
Posted by GiGi (Member # 259) on :
Good health to you!
Posted by jeffinca11 (Member # 25584) on :
Hal Huggins states that if your going to get your root canal tooth pulled, tell the ORAL SURGEON (the person you need to see if your going to get a tooth extracted) to also take out:
the Periodontal Ligament. He says that this little piece of the root is like leaving in the afterbirth in the mother after she delivers. It harbors and will do a lot of damage if left behind.
I've had 2 root canals and regret it to this day.
If you want to find a metal free, biological dentist, try:
The Periodontal Ligaments are what hold the tooth in the socket. A dentist or oral surgeon always cleans the socket with instruments in which the little microscopic ligaments are taken out then. If a dentist doesn't do this, well, then, he/she shouldn't have a license on the wall.
I'm sorry that so many of you have had bad experiences with dentists.
I have endo treated (root canal) teeth and no problems.
Posted by Mrs.C (Member # 17775) on :
I have had lyme for over 10 yrs before my diagnosis 2 yrs. ago. About 4 mths. ago I had the worst pain in my jaw. It would start in the back and radiate to the front and cause that side of my face go numb. I had a root canal done on a tooth with a crown on it about 4 weeks ago. WOW did that kick up the spiroketes.
My LLMD said I should have told him (didn't think anything of it) because there a lots of spirokete in your mouth and I should have immediately started on another antibiotic besides the ones I'm already on. (because of the root canal)
Posted by lymeboy (Member # 24769) on :
is this to imply that I will need to pull my teethout? I could wind up with 10 teeth left in my head. Im really not into that idea. I think it is a lousy solution, and a little bit drastic. There must be options.....this is getting ridiculous.
Posted by pioneerlady (Member # 27554) on :
A very reliable LLMD once told me that this infection hides anyway there had been damage. It will go to a tooth after root canal or pulling. It will go to any spot of surgery or injury and take hold. It works best in our weaknesses. We just have to try not to have any weak spot for it to take hold. That...is the hard part!
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) Just be smart...
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