Topic: How to find a LL ND (naturopathic doctor), acupuncturist, etc.
Includes how to find an ILADS-educated LL ND, an Acupuncturist, a doctor of Oriental Medicine (O.M.D.), or a doctor of Ayurvedic Medicine (D.Ay.), certified herbalists or nutritionists, etc.
Includes many articles and books on complementary / integrative methods - & RIFE links. -
Posted by rmsfnc (Member # 27539) on :
I've tried to take andrographis twice so far. Started every other day, ramping to daily, ramping to 2 every other day. Both times brought on nausea and diarrhea. Lated 3-4 days after I stopped. I believe he still recommends it just not as the #1 choice anymore.
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- It's best to ramp up one per week. It took me 4 months to get up to the full dose.
Nothing has worked as well to manage seizures for me as andrographis. Nothing. And nothing has worked as well to relieve a mouth full of apthous ulcers and "burning" mouth. Nothing.
However, it does increase fatigue and urinary frequncy, two aspects that I don't like but will put up with as it so helps me to not be thrown into a seizure at the slightest sound or flash. But, for another poster here, andrographis seemed to do the opposite. So, it's clearly not for everyone.
Regarding just regular bumps in the road, though, with whatever we take, we have to expect effects, regardless. Nothing about lyme is a picnic. Until we reach remission, I think it is unreasonable to expect ANY path that is going to be easy-breezy. But it empowers me to first learn about everything that I take. When I know the range of things to be mindful of, I am more prepared. I also then learn how to balance that.
I spent hours reading just about andrographis - over the course of weeks - even months - really (I'm a very slow reader and there are many good articles).
Ideally, it's best to consult a LL ND so that a balanced individualized formula can be employed by someone trained for years in this area. Herbs are intended to be used in balance with others. And two people with seemingly same symptoms may need a very different approach.
If you don't have a LL ND be sure to read from as many educated sources as possible for a rounded view of each supplement. And then discuss with your LLMD. -
[ 11-01-2010, 04:07 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- It's always best to hear a quote from the source, himself. From a search of Buhner's site:
. . . I no longer feel that andrographis is the most important herb for treating lyme. Knotweed, cat�s claw, and eleutherococcus are the most important in that order. . . .
CAUTION: To date, 3 people have reported allergic reactions to Andrographis. Primarily the reaction shows as a rather severe skin rash. -
Posted by Hoosiers51 (Member # 15759) on :
What is the #1 choice then, if not andrographis?
I think I do remember reading this on Lymenet at one point, but it would be hard to search without knowing what I'm looking for.
Posted by texanmom3 (Member # 28840) on :
We are trying to determine what is causing our son's diarrhea. I am weaning back on herbs to see if it improves. One of his herbs is andrographis.
Posted by Hoosiers51 (Member # 15759) on :
Okay well....hmmm. (just read Keebler's last post)
Seems strange to me. I wonder what he is suggesting to actually kill the spirochetes. My understanding is that those 3 herbs are not primarily intended as anti-spirochetal, though I could be wrong.
I thought cat's claw was for the immune system, eleuthero is for energy, knotweed is for detox.....is that enough for Lyme?
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- Q: Is that enough for Lyme?
It would be impossible to answer that question in just a post. It's way more complex than just four herbs.
Buhner's work delves into many herbs, not just four mentioned above. It's best to study the book, and the website - and look all around that forum.
And then study each herb from the work of other writers.
On the forum, you can search key words such as "spirochetes" or "infection" and also look over others' questions and post our own.
It would take several hours of study, at least - for each herb - to learn enough to decide if you wanted to proceed. There is no easy route and none of this fits into quick sound bytes. For each herb, he covers about 6 -10 pages of research.
The key is to read directly from the author. We can speculate until the cows come home about what he says, means, intends - but it's best to read directly from his work and recent postings.
His book covers 253 pages of text with references. That's nearly impossible to water down. -
[ 11-01-2010, 09:36 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
Posted by wgshuckers (Member # 27869) on :
I was reading about knotweed and it looks like it could aggrivate arthritis problems. I was about to order some but now I'm thinking I better not.
"Some caution should be exercised when consuming this plant because it contains oxalic acid, which may aggravate conditions such as rheumatism, arthritis, gout, kidney stones or hyperacidity"
Posted by canefan17 (Member # 22149) on :
Oxalic Acid is found in a lot of the foods you eat.
It's such a small amount in Knotweed that it's ok. Imo
Oxalic Acid is much higher in Cats Claw, btw.
Keebler, What's your opinion on why Andrographis causes fatigue?
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- Q: why Andrographis causes fatigue?
It's just what it does. It has sedative properties.
That's why it's best with other herbs to help balance that out a bit. Andrographis has been tremendous for my sleep. Amazing, really.
Andrographis is detailed on pages 77 - 89 of Buhner's book. The "Actions" section on page 78 lists: ". . . sedative . . . ." This sedative action is also mentioned in other sources.
Book: Healing Lyme: Natural Healing And Prevention of Lyme Borreliosis And Its Coinfections - by Stephen Harrod Buhner -
[ 11-15-2010, 10:02 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
Posted by canefan17 (Member # 22149) on :
Keebler,
So hypothetically speaking could someone take it close to bed and kill 2 birds with 1 stone?
I've thought about taking Andrographis to hit any viruses my body may have stored away. But I definitely don't want to deal with fatigue during the day
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- I thought you've taken it before, or maybe that was just in a formula.
I would read all about it from as many different sources as you can. I would not suggest it just for sleep as it has other properties besides being calming. If used, it should be part of a carefully constructed formula.
I will say that if taken, during the day, by itself, it will cause drowsiness - more during the first couple of weeks, though. After more study, it's best to start slowly with a low dose.
It can also cause stomach upset so be prepared for that.
It's important to realize that infection, alone, causes fatigue. It's the body's way of telling us to rest because it's got all it can deal with. -
Posted by canefan17 (Member # 22149) on :
Ya I took it in Tim's formula but had to stop because of heart palps, dizziness, and light-headedness
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- Too bad. I got none of those symptoms with that formula, just tiredness with andrographis, alone. The full formula was just fine for me, other than maybe a slight increase in tinnitus (which I get from resveratrol, alone, too.)
Goes to show we all respond differently, and often differently at different times. -
Posted by canefan17 (Member # 22149) on :
keeb,
what are your thoughts on knotweed & oxalic acid?
do i need to be weary of this as i hit full dosage (4x4)?
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- my thoughts don't compare to all that has been written by those who are expert in the field. -
Posted by canefan17 (Member # 22149) on :
And what do those experts say? lol
Buhner doesn't really address it (maybe it's not a big deal - I'm just wonderin)
Posted by paulieinct (Member # 17514) on :
Perhaps many know this already, but Eva Sapi, PHD, Lyme Researcher at University of New Haven (CT), studied the effectiveness of herbal preparations Samento and Banderol vs Doxycycline against borrelia organisms.
In vitro, the Samento and Banderol killed off all forms of Borrelia, including cyst. Doxycycline killed off only the spirochete form and actually caused many borrelia to convert from spirochete to cyst. Dr. Sapi had Lyme herself, and recovered using mostly herbal protocols.
There is a video I believe on youtube where she discusses this.
I myself plan to start taking these soon. Until reading this study, I did not hold much credence in the efficacy of herbal compounds, and have relied on rx antibiotics for the past two and a half years. This study really caught my attention.
Posted by paulieinct (Member # 17514) on :
BTW, Japanese Knotweed is the source of much of the resveratrol on the market today. Previously, grape skins were the only source.
Japanese knotweed is an invasive alien species which has naturalized along roadsides in the US. I had it in my yard, and it took me years to kill it. Even 22 years later, it still puts up shoots that I have to whack back. There is an enormous stand of it across the street. It's kinda like the kudzu of the North. I was very surprised to learn reecently that it is a major source of resveratrol.
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- canefan,
Google and PubMed have lots of good literature. Days' worth of reading. Too much to put here, really. through Google, just be sure to look for professional articles, not just blurbs on sites that sell.
By searching through Bing.com you can often bypass sites that just sell and more easily find those that offer more of a research approach.
Also search out the site for Townsend Letter, naturopathic and ethno-pharmacy, herbalist kinds of professional journals, etc. Try to avoid the mass market stuff unless written by an expert. ---------------
Topic: How to find an ILADS-educated LL ND (naturopathic doctor), L.Ac. (acupuncturist), etc.
�� Includes many professional links, articles and books on complementary / integrative methods ��
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These are methods and sites to search and learn about so much. When I first hear or read of something, I start with PubMed and then get more specific. Remember to cross search with key terms as that often leads you right to the specifics. But it's also important to look at the wider picture. That is why PubMed is so valuable. It's good to check back to PubMed at least once a month. -