Holy Cow!!!! You win the prize today! Thanks for sharing. We are all in this weird twilight zone together and it's an odd comfort to have a place to come and share.... and be supported.
Hope you figure out what it was. Feel better.
Tammy
Posted by lymetwister (Member # 19590) on :
I will never figure out what it is as it's now sitting in my septic tank. I don't want to save these things, but rather keep photos to document my journey.
I'll tell you one thing... I feel a little better symptom wise after this latest dose and of course expelling these things.
Yuk !
Posted by lymetwister (Member # 19590) on :
Perhaps, this has been why I have been so sick !!
Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
It's so tempting to say "duh" to the thought that these things might be making you feel sick, but being a moderator and all, I will try to control myself.
I'm glad it's working AND more importantly, that you are feeling better!!
Posted by lymetwister (Member # 19590) on :
Six, please tell you me you saw similar. I don't remember swallowing a Fly ever in my life. If this disease kills me, the Medical Examiner who does my Autopsy will have a big surprise waiting for him.
But I'm not gonna let this kill me, so thats out of the question. I'm still kinda mortified.
This certainly is no pencil stool !
Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
I think you *might* be fishing more than I did. I can't say I saw something just like that, but I didn't look very closely.
I was always mortified when I saw something. I would be nauseous for hours afterward, not from the parasite, but from the thought of it.
Posted by Tammy N. (Member # 26835) on :
Maybe put it in a small glass jar with alcohol. So if you ever want to show it to a future doc or inspect it further to figure it out, you'll have it.
So glad you do feel better. Keep at it and keep us posted.
Posted by Wolfed Out (Member # 23727) on :
Gary,
Are you taking ABX while doing the Salt/C protocol? Asking for myself...
Posted by lymetwister (Member # 19590) on :
I was on IV Rocephin, but put it on hold as I'm just Herxing too hard from the Salt/C and Parastroy. I honestly don't even think I need the Rocephin the way I'm going.
Still have a way to go. Perhaps this is related to the Flank Pain I've been having on the left side.
CT showed nothing when I thought I might have a Kidney stone. Maybe it's all working it's way down. Boy, that would be nice.
Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
Being off the abx may be part of the reason for feeling better. You will feel better getting rid of the parasites, but the die off is tough.
I had left sided pain under my rib. My bottom rib is even detached from where they are normally attached in the center of the body (confirmed by a doctor). When I did the Pekana spleen detox along with the other two detox items Pekana recommends when doing the spleen detox, that pain went away.
Posted by lymetwister (Member # 19590) on :
I only skipped 2 day now of the Rocephin.
Posted by map1131 (Member # 2022) on :
Thanks, lymetwister. Now for the last 15 minutes I've had that rhyme going over and over in my head. The only problem is I can't remember all of it. So I just keep doing the parts I know again and again.
You're welcome. Posted by lymetwister (Member # 19590) on :
Between the Worms and Flies I should be living in a Swamp :-)
Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
I bet you're starting to feel like Edgar in Men In Black!!
Posted by lymetwister (Member # 19590) on :
Jan. 14, 2009 I was on the Protocol and made this video. Click Here.
I abandoned the Protocol for big pharma when I got my medicare and found an LLMD who took my insurance.
I went downhill from there. I decided to go back on it about 3 or 4 weeks ago now and it's no coincidence that this stuff is once again coming out of me.
Just wanted to point this out to some of you that never saw or remember the old post from here.
Here is what came out of me in the 100's back then: P.S. You can see the same exact ones on http://lymephotos.com under Borellia even though they are not Borellia.
Posted by Hambone (Member # 29535) on :
OMG...That's what I saw 2 months ago! But there was just one little lonely "thing". I was on no treatment but abx and Nystatin.
It was solid white and about/not quite 2 inches.
Posted by glm1111 (Member # 16556) on :
Gary,
HOLY FREAKIN MOLY!!! That is sooo creepy. I had EVERTHING pictured on lymephotos come pouring out of me and was in absokute shock.
I kust kept say "No wonder I've been so sick" I am sure you can now relate.
I really think that the combo of the antiparasitics and salt/c is invaluable in getting well.
So Glad you are feeling better and better yet, maybe you should think of a career in movie producing!
Gael
Posted by MichaelTampa (Member # 24868) on :
I was amused at the "Spanish Salt Cod Fritters" Recipe that was shown after I watched the video, showing a picture of it in the pan, a similar color. Uhhhh, gee, not really hungry right now.
Seriously, though, thanks for posting. Amazing stuff to see!
Posted by glm1111 (Member # 16556) on :
Michael,
That's hilarious I just went back to look at the video to see what you were talking about.
And yep, it was right there in the upper right hand corner above Garys video, "Spanish Salt Cod Fritters"
I am sure when Gary sees that, he will get a big laugh.
Gael
Posted by lymetwister (Member # 19590) on :
Ok, did another 2.5gm of Salt/C and my PM Parastroy together.
This is absolutely incredible what is coming out of me. I feel like an Alien.
This came 30 min. after dosing on an empty stomach.
I poke fun of it in the video, but how else should I react ?
I'd say since you were a nurse you are predisposed to have more variety of these things since you were exposed to so much...
This is DISGUSTING but I am glad you are getting them out and feeling some better.
If you keep expelling things of these sort, I would stay on anti-parasitics, anti-fungals, and things of that sort as abx will do nothing for these things.
ACV works wells for me as well as the NM herbs seem to help w/ these issues.
Keep keeping on.
Best
Derek
Posted by djf2005 (Member # 11449) on :
The other possibility is that your bowels have not been functioning at capacity for some time and now they are finally getting things moving...although this thing looks like it was alive recently so that may or may not be totally plausible.
I would get that bugger out of the toilet and have it examined. Having small intestinal parasites and worms is one thing, this is something altogether different.
Flagyl may be helpful as it works well on this type of microbe as well as what DK recommends which is called Alinia.
Posted by lymetwister (Member # 19590) on :
I'm getting relief and thats all that matters. My Lyme symptoms have been terrible all along.
I assure you, my bowels have never been an issue. I have kept them clean with lots of Tap Water enemas and Coffee Enemas.
Derek, are you hearing Six and some of the others. Apparently many are probably having this issue and perhaps could be the reason they arn't getting well as they too are probably loaded with these kinds of things and abx arn't getting at them.
Since IV abx weren't working, I decided to go back to what was in the very beginning of all of this for me.
Being an RN is a plus b/c I always took extra precautions to gown/glove/mask, etc. which went further than working in a hospital including washing my hands properly at fast food restaurants, etc.
Posted by glm1111 (Member # 16556) on :
The other HUGE possibility is because these ticks are carrying a whole dish of swamp critters which has nothing to do with picking them up when eating out,or having sex or working in the medical field.
and you will understand what I am referring to. These clearly are not from any hospital or restaurant.
Gael
Posted by lymetwister (Member # 19590) on :
All I know is that I'm getting these suckers. I honestly believe the combo of the Salt/C and Parastroy is killing them off. Perhaps they adhere to the bowel wall and thats why they don't come out until they are forced out by killing them.
BTW, my Blood Pressure has been fine. My Bun/Creatinine and electrolytes were fine as of 3 days ago.
Posted by Blackstone (Member # 9453) on :
I know this is an unpopular opinion, but as "nasty" as these things look there is absolutely nothing to confirm they are actually "parasites". Especially considering the size of the mass, which is visible via the naked eye, in many cases.
I once inspected a sample from a patient that looked similar to the one posted by lymetwister which turned out to be under further inspection via microscopy to be a combination of intestinal mucosa, plant matter (ie. vegetable skin), feces, and the compounds from the cleanse itself (In that case it included oil, as well as black walnut and a few of the other common herbs, all shaped by passage through the colon.
Something that large should be easily identifiable as either a full colony of organisms or have visible systems when dissected. I urge everyone to preserve what they find and show it to a parasitologist should there be one in your area. Even an experienced vet can help if there isn't a parasitologist in the area. I'm fully aware there are organisms out there that haven't been properly classified as of yet, but there are some relatively easy tests someone with access to standard labs can do to help determine the nature of a specimen.
Posted by lymetwister (Member # 19590) on :
Blackstone, I hear you, but how do you explain the relief in my Lyme symptoms as soon as these pass ?
I just took my son to Subway and I hadn't been out of the house in 2 weeks except when someone drove me to my Dr. and to the lab for a blood draw.
My head symptoms are notably better and my own family tells me how good I sound on the phone.
Still many symptoms lingering, but they are not so intense and much more livable.
Posted by GiGi (Member # 259) on :
We on average hold about 12 pounds of parasites. Some are beneficial and some are not.
Posted by bigstan (Member # 11699) on :
I had a few of these over the years but figured it out it was undigested oranges. Just saying you might not even eat oranges. Who knows get it looked at.
Posted by GiGi (Member # 259) on :
I agree that intestinal lining can look very similar to the photo Lymetwister showed. it is tough as wet shoe leather. However, some of the critters or eggs can be wrapped into these and because many are so tiny, it is difficult to see them with the bare eye. I passed a piece like this that looked like I had torn off a piece of my liver. I tried to cut it and couldn't - not even with a razor blade. Decade old gluten ---! I never had a digestion problem after that and no food allergies whatsoever -- after this cleanse. But I could have filled a five gallon drum with that.
So if you have food allergies, especially grains/gluten/gliadin, beware. This is what creates some of the leaky gut that eventually lets the toxins leak back into the blood stream and the neurotoxins into the brain.
Again, there is a potent reason why Dr. K. is so adamant about clearing parasites and reducing that burden that robs us of our health.
Google parasites brain - and see what you can come up with. That may convince you that it is a major disturbance and why we can't think straight any longer once they have taken over. It's not that silly little spirochete alone - it is the total toxic body load that we need to work on in order to get better. All the abx or meds in the world don't have a chance to get past all these barriers, all of it creating more biofilm for them to hide. They also pee and poo and die. They have a life cycle and we have to live with that also unless we put a stop to it.
Reduce the toxic load is often the first sentence in many of Dr. K.'s protocols. He never says go and kill the bb, because they automatically will not be able to survive if we work on the terrain.
Take care.
Posted by lymetwister (Member # 19590) on :
I'm being funny here, but I'll probably pull a Rabit out next. Lets hope not !
GiGi, thx for your input.
You know, I've taken Psylium Husk before and that stuff swells in the colon and is supposed to drag everything along with it. God knows when it comes out it looks like ruber.
This is much different though. I didn't try and cut it or even squeeze it, but again, with the amount of Enemas I do, both Coffee and 2-3L Tap Water enemas, I just don't see how anything could be left behind.
I will be sure to keep you all updated. A final word before I hit the hay. I feel relaxed and not a single symptom is Flairing and I will take that to bed and hope I continue in this direction. With that said, I do expect to Herx as I ramp up on the Protocol.
GN Everyone !
Posted by Wolfed Out (Member # 23727) on :
Gigi,
Just to clarify, you wrote:
"I never had a digestion problem after that and no food allergies whatsoever -- after this cleanse. But I could have filled a five gallon drum with that."
When you say this cleanse, you're referring to the Salt/C protocol? I'm struggling with food and mold allergies, and am a half step from pounding this protocol...with urgent and delicate care for my body. Posted by jpsmom (Member # 23895) on :
where can we order salt/c from any herbal store or ??? and parasrtoy??? I was muscle tested for black walnut & biofeedback for 12 microbes,I want these things out of me too!!!
Posted by canefan17 (Member # 22149) on :
Blackstone,
I respect your opinion & think outside the box attitude - but those of us who have been on anti-parasitic protocols have some of the strangest die-off reactions (before the remains come out) that could only indicate killing of SOMETHING.
I've had nights where I've been in a half-sleep/half-awake(sleep coma) moment and could SEE images of a parasite attacking my stomach wall. Literally jabbing at it.
This was accompanied by sweats, tingling feelings all over my body (felt like microscopic worms crawling out of me), and a little bit of heart race.
There's simply nothing else I could attribute all of this too except the aggressive parasitic protocol I had started.
And in Gary's case - there seems to be no coincidence that just as he starts salt/c + parastroy all of this starts to come out.
So i do think it's more than just "plant matter and intestinal mucosa."
but that's jmo
Posted by canefan17 (Member # 22149) on :
jpsmom,
Lol so funny. love the enthusiasm!
Go to amazon and type in parastroy.
Salt C you just need GOOD salt (himalayan, www.realsalt.com + Vitamin C (with bioflavanoids, preferably)
Talk to Gael and gary before you even think of attempting the protocol. You need to understand it first.
Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
Blackstone, I passed things like you are talking about when I did Dr. Natura's cleanse. This was well after the parasite cleansing. It was amazing how much gunk had been in my intestines for who knows how long. I felt much better after getting rid of that.
But the parasites that came out with the parasite cleanse were much different.
The tapeworm was actually undeniable .... flat, whitish, broken into 4-6 inch segments, about a dozen of them in one bowel movement after having taken Humaworm for a few days. Then more pieces over the next few days. Then I started eating half as much and gained ten pounds.
Then the stuff that looked like what Gary posted in his other thread came out only when I took Enula, which is known to kill roundworms, it even mentions that it does on their information page on their site.
Gary, you might consider Dr. Natura at some point ..... but I don't think pictures are necessary, it makes these pics look like child's play, LOL! You can see what I'm talking about on their website, they do have pictures there.
Posted by Blackstone (Member # 9453) on :
A couple of points to address...
First of all, I don't doubt that the compounds used in many of the more powerful "cleanses" are able to have anti-pathogen activity. Artemesia, black walnut and many of these other compounds are detrimental to many of the core bacterial and protozoan pathogens we face - Lyme, Babesia and thee like - and thus I can totally understand if there is a herx reaction/flare of symptoms followed by an improvement. There are also other considerations such as patients with constant constipation will definitely feel relieved after the bowel stimulants/irritants in these compounds cause defecation.
The problem is relegating this improvement to "it killed parasites, and here are a bunch of large objects in the bowl that look rather gross" isn't necessarily scientifically accurate - there are plenty of other possibilities. Now, as sixgoofykids has mentioned I am sure there are some patients who have commonly identified worms - roundworms, tapeworms and the like, but these things are easy to identify and any trained professional would be able to do so.
However, there are lots of amorphous, unidentifiable (at first glance) or just plain erroneous suggestions that what people expel are "parasites", which serve to make the community lose credibility which is something we desperately need at the moment. I'm well aware there are yet-unnamed organisms, but I encourage everyone to submit any samples to trained professionals who can at least inspect and compare genetics to find out what, if any family of parasitic organisms it belongs to.
As a community looking through answers, the last thing we want to do is undermine our credibility and put forth hypothesis that have little basis in fact and aren't willing to allow the kind of testing that could help provide answers, even if they aren't necessary the ones we want to hear.
Posted by steve1906 (Member # 16206) on :
I have to say I totally agree with BLACKSTONE. I don't understand why anyone wouldn�t have something like this tested by a profestional in this area.
I have done many cleaners like a lot of people here, if I found something I truly believed was a parasite I would have it tested.
It could very well be a parasite but, why wouldn�t you have it tested. Having proof would help your recover with the proper treatment.
Posted by nefferdun (Member # 20157) on :
It is hard to kick me out of my denial about parasitic worms being inside me but this post may have done the trick. Just TOO GROSS!
So it is the day to worm my horses and while I am out there I will give myself some - ivermectrin, which kills damn near everything but tapeworm. If I am going to kill something it is going to be big time and not take months to accomplish. And it is going to be powerful enough to get it all. I just hope I don't "colic".
Posted by steve1906 (Member # 16206) on :
I would like to warn everyone of the dangers of salt/C. I have done a lot of reading on this, and I believe it�s one of the most dangerous attempts to treat lyme disease.
I have read about many people ending up in the ER nearly died, and yes, I�ve also heard of people dying from (large amounts of Salt/C protocols.
This is only me opinion, be very careful and do your research.
Posted by glm1111 (Member # 16556) on :
Steve,
I would be very interested to read about the individual cases and FIRST HAND information of the people you are speaking about,not what you heard, especially of the ones that have died.
I never ever heard of anyone dying from salt/c,
We don't have many weapons against this disease, and it's important that we don't scare people away from a valuable protocol because of fear.
If this protocol is done correctly, it can be life saving. Please don't mix up the dangers of TABLE SALT with sea salt.
Gael
Posted by steve1906 (Member # 16206) on :
glm111, I did hear of at least one or two deaths caused by this protocol. I wish I saved it but I didn�t, I�ll try and find it. After reading the web-site below I�m sure I�ll agree that people can die, if they have other conditions they are not aware of! The death notice will not say salt/C, if they die from a heart attack.
I�m not trying to scare anyone from salt/C. What I wrote was (I BELIEVE it�s one of the most dangerous attempts to treat lyme disease). And I also wrote>(THIS IS ONLY MY OPINON).
You wrote> (If this protocol is done correctly, it can be life saving)> There are a lot of new people here everyday, and I do believe this is a dangerous protocol. If people don�t do there research they are going to try things that can make them sicker or even worse.
Here is a web-site for everyone to read. It�s goes both ways � (good and bad). PLEASE read the whole article from top to bottom. Some people with other conditions like (MS - hypertension, heart, kidney disease, or with CFS, those with ACE mutations) should probably skip Salt/C.
Keep in mind, you may not know you have any of these conditions at the time you use this protocol.
I just want to say that some of the Lyme meds made me so toxic and sick that if I continued I feared that I may too suffer a heart attack and die.
Mepron made me suicidal with just 7 days of it and another 7 days trying to get it out of my system.
I guess my point is all treatments have risks/benefits. What works for one, doesn't necessarily work for another.
I have never had my genes tested and I don't intend to. I can only say that ramping up slowly on the Salt/C appears to be safe for most. Obviously those with kidney disease and congestive heart failure, etc. are not candidates for this protocol. Everyone I spoken to that has done this protocol has Herxed on it, which equals killing.
When you Herx on abx, one never knows if it's from the toxins of the abx or the die off from the abx. With this protocol, when you Herx, it can only be from Toxin die off and nothing else.
I read the blog and the guy Kurt seems to be in favor of the protocol and does point out the dangers as he sees it in his opinion. But who is he ? And, who am I ? We are just people sick with Lyme doing what we feel comfortable doing.
It's a personal choice and one should check with their Dr. to make sure they don't have pre-existing conditions that would put them in any kind of danger prior to starting this or any protocol.
I was hoping this thread would not turn into a debate. I only wanted to share my experiences as I always have, whether they have been good or bad.
So, this time around, I have restarted what was working for me in the beginning and is once again working for me now. So upward and onward I go.
Gary
Posted by She R Lock (Member # 18823) on :
I have to agree with Steve1906 above. I have worked in hospitals and nursing homes and know first hand that TOO much SALT can be dangerous! This is why labels have the sodium content listed. The recommendation for sodium is less than 2400 mg. daily. Most of us consume more than double that from diet alone. Adding additional Sea Salt can increase your risk for heart disease, strokes, blood pressure, fluid retention, electrolyte imbalances, gastric cancer and osteoporosis. Anyone consuming excess sodium should be closely monitored by a health professional.This regimen is especially risky for the young and old... The Canadian Lymenet does not allow discussions about SALT/C because they don't want anyone hurting themselves and I was told that ILADS does not promote the use of SALT/C.
Posted by nefferdun (Member # 20157) on :
Took my wormier and now I know why the horses make such terrible faces when they get theirs. So far nothing interesting is happening.
Posted by seibertneurolyme (Member # 6416) on :
nefferdun,
Too late -- I was going to warn you to be very careful about dosing if you actually took ivermectin. The human dose is much different than the dose for horses or cows or for heartworm in dogs etc.
Anyway -- I have read a couple of reports where tickborne patients felt it might get rid of babesia. But that was taking a low dose over an extended period of time.
Bea Seibert
Posted by nefferdun (Member # 20157) on :
Nothing interesting to report here. No worms.
I measured it out according the weight on the tube and felt absolutely nothing. Didn't even have diarrhea which I expected. I have always been very easy on my horses after worming thinking they might have a little colic but that would probably only be the case with a heavy load of parasties.
If anyone had worms you would think it would be me. I have a lot of animals - muck manure every day for decades. I don't know how you guys got them but I would not suggest that they are a problem for everyone.
I am glad to know ivermetrin can help with babesia.
Posted by canefan17 (Member # 22149) on :
She R Lock,
Most of the information you listed is in regards to Table Salt.
There's a huge difference
Posted by glm1111 (Member # 16556) on :
nefferdun,
You need way more than i dose of antiparasitics for results. Dr. K. uses allopathic antiparasitics for 3-4 mos and also salt/c. It took me 6 mos to see results using herbs and salt/c
Gael
Posted by She R Lock (Member # 18823) on :
Canefan 17, I'm talking about Sodium. Sea Salt has 2350 mg of Sodium in 1 tsp. The daily recommendation for Sodium is less than 2400 mg. Check Sea Salt and any food label for Sodium content. Too much Sodium can be dangerous and anyone consuming excessive amounts of Sodium should be monitored by a health care professional.
Posted by just don (Member # 1129) on :
Nefferdun, there are different forms of ivormec for different animals, cows, pigs, horses,thinking humans and horses may be different.
I DO KNOW others have been given Ivormec by RX so what type,,,dont know,,,ask around
When I had cows we used pour on and no matter how hard you tried you got it on you,,or injectable spilled on skin by accident.
Next day I would always be sick a little. Good sick from a dieoff I hope
My LLMD, years ago said salt and c not so good,,his words,"everything in moderation"
His other concern with salt tabs was they lay on the stomach lining and eat holes like ulcers.
Here is a salt related question. What makes salt be a better sleeping pill than Ambien for 'me'???
You can call me weird,,,but its the truth. I eat salty food and I sleep like a baby.
A salt tablet like they fed us in the 60's make me sleep and dream so hard.
Docs all say limit salt,,why so I feel better with increased salt??? (moderate amounts)
PLEASE explain this to ME.
Posted by mojo (Member # 9309) on :
quote:Originally posted by lymetwister: Jan. 14, 2009 I was on the Protocol and made this video. Click Here.
Here is what came out of me in the 100's back then: P.S. You can see the same exact ones on http://lymephotos.com under Borellia even though they are not Borellia.
I have had these come out of me several times, too.
My LLMD sent them to Quest for testing and they said "not a parasite" Yeah, right!
There are tons of photos of these at curezone.com, too.
Posted by canefan17 (Member # 22149) on :
SheRLock,
Daily recommendation from who?
Posted by She R Lock (Member # 18823) on :
To answer your above ? Canefan17 the recommendations for Sodium are from The Dept of Health and Human Services,USDA,IOM, Am Heart Association and ADA.
Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
Just don, I have been told by THREE doctors over the last 20 years to increase my salt intake, and one of those three was my LLMD!!! I eat little junk food, make everything from scratch, so I get little of the salt used in food processing, so I wasn't getting enough.
Salt is good for your adrenal glands. If your adrenal glands are in bad shape, it makes it hard to fall asleep. Maybe you are like me and actually need MORE salt than we are eating.
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I just went back to look at the video to see what you were talking about.
