Ive read this statement alot. I'm wondering if it is true. and when they say it replicates everything three hours does that mean all the lyme bacteria in our bodies replicate every 12 hours?
Posted by lymegal23 (Member # 28573) on :
up
does anyone know the answer to this?
Everyone always says the way lyme grows is different than other bacterias. that its slow growing.
I'd like to better understand this concept
THANKS
I just watched this video to better understand about bacteria replication . Is what theyre saying in this video true about lyme bacteria as well? that it replicates into millions in one day?
Lymegal, did you get my PM? Please do not "up" a post until it appears on page two. Thank you.
Posted by TF (Member # 14183) on :
Here are a few statements by Burrascano on the subject:
"As the spirochete has a very long generation time (12 to 24 hours in vitro and possibly much longer in living systems) and may have periods of dormancy, during which time antibiotics will not kill the organism, treatment has to be continued for a long period of time to eradicate all the active symptoms and prevent a relapse, especially in late infections. If treatment is discontinued before all symptoms of active infection have cleared, the patient will remain ill and possibly relapse further. . .
It has been observed that symptoms will flare in cycles every four weeks. It is thought that this reflects the organism�s cell cycle, with the growth phase occurring once per month (intermittent growth is common in Borrelia species). As antibiotics will only kill bacteria during their growth phase, therapy is designed to bracket at least one whole generation cycle. This is why the minimum treatment duration should be at least four weeks.
If the antibiotics are working, over time these flares will lessen in severity and duration. The very occurrence of ongoing monthly cycles indicates that living organisms are still present and that antibiotics should be continued. With treatment, these monthly symptom flares are exaggerated and presumably represent recurrent Herxheimer-like reactions as Bb enters its vulnerable growth phase and then are lysed." (pages 16-17)
quote:Originally posted by TF: It has been observed that symptoms will flare in cycles every four weeks. It is thought that this reflects the organism�s cell cycle, with the growth phase occurring once per month (intermittent growth is common in Borrelia species).
That's interesting...I had seizures on December 19th, and then again yesterday, January 25, for the first time since.
Couldn't the monthly moon cycles have an effect on this, too, though?
Posted by Camp Other (Member # 29797) on :
A lot of women have noticed that symptoms tend to flare up while premenstrual. I don't know if that happens to every woman or just some women. It's something that would be great to survey if it hasn't been done already.
Posted by desertwind (Member # 25256) on :
Does that mean the abx.'s are a "waste" if we are taking them during a time when the lyme is not replicating?
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
quote:Originally posted by desertwind: [QB] Does that mean the abx.'s are a "waste" if we are taking them during a time when the lyme is not replicating?
Well, you're killing them at that time too!!! Not all spirochetes are on the same cycle.
Posted by desertwind (Member # 25256) on :
Okay...makes sense then.
Gosh if one were to have billions of spirochetes in them at any given time, then that is a whole lotta replicating going on.
Posted by TerryK (Member # 8552) on :
The division time of Borrelia burgdorferi is very long. Most other pathogens such as Streptococcus, or Staphylococcus, only take 20 minutes to double, the doubling time of Borrelia burgdorferi is usually estimated to be 12-24 hours.
Since most antibiotics are cell wall agent inhibitors, they can only kill bacteria when the bacteria begins to divide and form new cell wall.(35,59-62) This means: Since most antibiotics can only kill bacteria when they are dividing, a slow doubling time means less lethal exposure to antibiotics.
Most bacteria are killed in 10-14 days of antibiotic. To get the same amount of lethal exposure during new cell wall formation of a Lyme spirochete, the antibiotic would have to be present 24 hours a day for 1 year and six months! Posted by lymegal23 (Member # 28573) on :
^ WOW . Terry thats some great info. It really makes you realize how slow lyme disease reproduces
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- Yes, Terry,
Thanks for that excerpt. It's key. The better we can know the spirochete, the better prepared we will be. -
Posted by Camp Other (Member # 29797) on :
I agree, Keebler. This is something that scientists need to do more research on - we need to know more about their pathogenesis and some basic information about them before a group of people go around trying to make a vaccine.
Posted by agape (Member # 24519) on :
So, those of us with chonic/late term lyme have an expodental amount of replications to kill? I don't even want to think about do9ng the math for over 30 years with Lyme!
I think I'll go soak in an epsom salts bath instead, sigh.
Posted by lymegal23 (Member # 28573) on :
Is there literally MILLIONS of lyme spirochete bacteria in people with late stage lyme? you always hear people say that theres millions of bacterias present when someone has an infection.
thats a crazy thought....
Posted by BoxerMom (Member # 25251) on :
uummmm...I recently heard someone speculate trillions for the chronically infected.
I can't even think about it.
Posted by wgshuckers (Member # 27869) on :
If you could somehow have some sort of imaging scan on your body that would visualize areas of bacteria infection..
(think MRI or PET scan type)
What do you think the scan might look like? Would there be bacteria in every square inch of tissue? Or would there be areas of concentration in different body parts? Like joints.
That would be very interesting and helpful in understanding what the infection "looks like".
WG
Posted by lymegal23 (Member # 28573) on :
^ I totally agree with you. I always wondered if its centralized in one area of not
Although the lyme bacteria moves around our bodies. Thats why symptoms fluctuate. I assume the spirochetes just swim around and around.