So...we suspect Babs is one of the bugs I'm left to deal with. I've been having mild night sweats about ever 5-8 days.
on a hunch, I started Artemisinin last night. Took my second dose today at lunch time and right now my brain is very "foggy".
Seems like I'm having a herx.
Have others experienced this? I'm on no other Babs medicine.
Posted by n2themystic (Member # 27315) on :
I have. I pulse it. When I am on it I tend to get more brain fog, more headaches, and just general malaise feeling.
Posted by Lauralyme (Member # 15021) on :
Yes
Posted by Haley (Member # 22008) on :
YES. This was one of the first things I took when I was diagnosed. I was given 500 mg pills. I thought, this stuff is natural what can it do? I had the worst herx ever. I actually felt stuff move in my brain. Scared heck out of me. It took me a while before I tried it again.
Posted by anjiell (Member # 28322) on :
i tried artemisinin and biaxin at different times within 3 days the room was spinning and nausea,i still do not know if herx or reaction.good luck
Posted by chiquita incognita (Member # 30381) on :
I think this goes to say that herbs are pretty powerful (Can be, if given the right ones for the right condition) and that one needs to treat them respectfully.
I don't recommend mixing herbs with mainstream medications that duplicate same or similar functions. Can put a person "Over the top" in some cases.
Check with your doctor.
Posted by daniel (Member # 22201) on :
hey,
from that what i've read, artemisia only protect the new erythrocytes to be not infected with babesia, it is not killing the bug.. the bug will be killed itself when the erythrocyte will die (3-4 months).
i know that some ppl here are saying that you herx from artemesia.. i think it isnt like that..
i've read it in a study based on the "riamet" "abx"... it was explained that artemisin only PROTECT the cell but dont kill the bug..
gretz
Posted by chiquita incognita (Member # 30381) on :
Hi Daniel That is very interesting information. Thank you. And for the large part, it makes sense. The cool thing with herbs is that they don't cause the bacteria to mutate and become stronger. The way they do this (generically speaking, because each herb works a bit differently) is to protect cells from penetration by bugs/viruses as you say. Then they either wash them away, preventing them from clinging to cell walls and finally excreting them from the body. Or, they melt down the cell wall of the bacterium/virus (Whichever the case may be) without scrambling the DNA of the bug as antibiotics do, as I was taught when studying herbalism. Other herbs also bring the body's own immune defenses up to literally eat up the bug, or for different types of immune cells to tackle the bug in whatever different way each immune cell type happens to work. They all work a bit differently, and there are many different types of immune cells. And each herb "asks" different types to go to work, again each immune cell in its own different way.
What you said makes sense. I haven't read up about the mechanics in artemisin, and am commenting a bit blind, a dangerous thing to do. However, that said the bitter element of the herb artemisia (a clear distinction from the isolated constituent artemisin) would change the body's PH environment. This in turn causes unfavorable conditions for the survival of unfriendly bacteria, which generally speaking require an alkaline environment to survive. In general, friendly bacteria need an acidic environment to thrive, and unfriendly ones require an alkaline environment. That's a bit of a simplified statement, and there are some exceptions, but generally speaking that can be said to be true.
So while I believe what you are writing about artemisin protecting the blood cell wall from penetration by the bugs---a lot of herbs work similarly (Even if not always on the blood cells, but on other cells in the body, but artemesin happens to target the red blood cells)--- I don't believe that means that the herbal constituent does not necessarily *also* kill the bugs too.
Again I would have to read more and am commenting a bit generically, but this is educated information (I have formal training as herbalist).
Posted by chiquita incognita (Member # 30381) on :
PS What I was "driving at" is that the bugs mutate and get stronger with antibiotics because the DNA is scrambled by the drugs.
The herbs don't do that. And if they protect membranes from penetration, then that explains why herx's are so much less dramatic with herbal lyme therapy, yet progress can be dramatic (as has been my own experience. I have also read about this elsewhere on the web with regard to herbal lyme therapy).
Again I think the posts here will indicate that the herb is pretty powerful. People may not realize how powerful herbs are, and how effective they can be. Can they work for lyme? I believe yes, if they are properly formulated to target the correct bugs and body systems, and if the formula is a well balanced one.
Posted by daniel (Member # 22201) on :
Oh sry i forgot to say:
you say you're sweating every 5-8 days, please think about bartonella.
bartonella is an intracellular bug which is also aiming at erythrocytes.
bartonella is "spreading" every 3-5 days, usually 5 days. that means.. that the erythrocyte will die and new bartonella organisms will enter new erythrocytes. this is causing some fever, sweating etc too
Chiquita, I had always understood the opposite about bad bactera -- that we need to alkalize our blood so that the bacteria are not as happy in their living environment. That's why so many nutritionists recommend that we drink lemon water and eat an alkalizing diet.
Posted by chiquita incognita (Member # 30381) on :
Hi Sunny Days An acidic environment will contribute to inflammatory conditions and reduce immunity. That, in turn, also fosters bacterial overgrowth. Most Americans tend to be overly acidic due to sugar and meat dominating the diet (not that I don't enjoy both myself on occasion, by the way. I am not a purist but I do believe in finding a happy medium between maintaining health and just plain enjoying fun eating. I think the healthiest of food should not "taste healthy', if you know what I mean, it should all be fun to eat).
An acidic digestive tract is inhospitable to such bugs as candida albicans et al> Consider that the digestive lining, its secretions and its activity account for 80% of immunity, according to Dr Joseph Mercola and Dr Mark Hyman! That being hte case, to maintain a slighly acidic environment in the digestive tract is key to good health. That's not the same as acidic blood, that comes from digestive byproducts and the improper nutritional balance.
I also stress "slightly" acidic because nobody should think that a hyperacidic digestive system is healthy or desireable. It's the happy medium that we are after.
Posted by Paul Mall (Member # 27581) on :
Oh Yea! I can't take Artemisinin
it messed up my liver
I took it for one week and herxed
Paul
Posted by canefan17 (Member # 22149) on :
Paul,
How did you notice it messin with liver? Became inflamed?
Posted by nell (Member # 18134) on :
I took artemisinin for two months, MWF 2 wks on/1 wk off. At that point my heart started doing backflips and the cardiologist said something is irritating your heart. LLMD said it's likely the artemisinin and I went off it.
I will say that every time I had to take it (ten little capsules), I had to steel myself to gag them down. Nasty! Bad herx too but I was also taking Mepron, doxy, and zith at the same time so I can't blame it all on the artemisinin.
And...I was improving on that protocol, so it would have been worth it if it hadn't been for the heart stuff.
Posted by Paul Mall (Member # 27581) on :
well I had gotton tested shortly after and it was through the roof
plus when I started on it I had abdominal pains.
so I am not 100 percent sure but me and LLMD both believe that was the cause.
but yes it can make you herx for sure. I was using the Drops very powerful