A few weeks ago i ordered Artemisia 2 (Zhang) just because i felt horrible. I just thought, well maybe i give it a try. Let me tell you the last months were pure hell. I sleep 10-14 hours a day and i feel so fatigued with burning nerves. I think you all know what i mean. I was not getting any better.
I also started low doses of sub B12. It's a bit hard to take because it contains histamine... But it helps because i have elevated homocysteine
I took two of em yesterday. When i woke up, i had intensive joint pain. But not like the usual joint pain. It jumping nerve pain and stuff like that and i had aching muscels all over the body. I also had pain in my knees and my legs, which i normally don't have. And my neck was soooo stiff...
When i took another pill in the evening, i felt so much better for hours. When i took a shower i thought when did i feel so well... Now i have constant pain and a very stiff neck but i feel better, mentally. Despite all the symptoms.
What does it hit??? I assume it could hit babesia. But i also had a positive MELISA(LTT) here in germany, several times for chlamydia P.
So it could be both, or one of them i guess. I never thought that coinfections might play such a huge role in my case. I had no idea...
It's not possible for me, i felt super awful the last months and now it's bad but a lot more tolerable! I guess it won't heal me but it's a sign.
What do you think? Babesia or chlaymdia? Maybe Mycoplasma (I had raised IGG's !)
My CD57 is 30. I suspect either lyme or chlamydia is surpressing it.
I don't even know what the zhang artemisia contains...LOL! But it's so clear that it works that i'm stunned. No herb used to work like this before.
This is the first time where i finally think i'm on the right path and i have a chance to get better!!!
Posted by kday (Member # 22234) on :
I believe Zhang Artemisia = Artesunate. Artesunate is powerful stuff. It's a prescription drug in China. Some doctors also use it as an antiviral for CFS treatment.
Have you had HHV-6 or Herpes family viruses antibodies checked?
Posted by Wolfed Out (Member # 23727) on :
Energyman,
Is this your first try with this herb, or have you tried any variation of Artemesia before? Like Artemisinin?
Curious because I'm taking Artemisinin from Allergy Research Group myself.
Posted by Energyman (Member # 29178) on :
It is an antiviral too? Interesting. NO i was never checked for HHV-6.
I tried artemisin before, of another brand and it wasn't working like that. Arte2 works better!!! i tried zhangs original arte, but art2 works just better!
[ 02-19-2011, 01:14 PM: Message edited by: Energyman ]
Posted by viva (Member # 8183) on :
Energyman,
I am wondering the same thing! My husband started Pure Encapsulations Artemesia the other other night, and there was a noticeable increase in his morning alertness (he's usually toxic and foggy), and overall energy within 24 hours!
This was his first time taking any oral art, although he's used the topical form before with positive effects.
He's got Lyme, and has had clinical diagnoses of bart and babs. Also positive for several viruses (including XMRV).
Right now, we're trying to figure out what is causing his remaining symptoms (mostly fatigue, also lingering cognitive).
For me, the big question is babs versus viruses.
Will be following this thread with interest. Thanks for bringing up the question. Hoping for answers for all of us!
Viva
Posted by Energyman (Member # 29178) on :
hey viva... i have the excat same thing!!! i also feel very toxic and foggy...
it also could be chlamydia pneumonie. did he treat babs or barts?
i'm not sure if the arte hit's the babs. i don't think it hits the barts.
maybe someone else will join in... we need ideas!
Posted by randibear (Member # 11290) on :
hmm, i can't remember but i think i was told that artemes...was not for chronic lyme.
or did i get that wrong??
Posted by viva (Member # 8183) on :
Energyman,
You mentioned a stiff neck...that is also something that my husband gets. I believe a number of posts have linked that to babs, although it's such an individual thing.
He has treated for both babs and bart. Currently more aggressive on the babs front.
My understanding is that Art does hit babs, but I'm wondering about its anti-viral properties, based on Kday's post. And you're making me wonder about the chlamydia pneum. connection. It's just so difficult to sort out, isn't it???
Not to sidetrack, but I'm wondering what you've used to treat the chlamydia p., and how effective that's been.
My gut is saying that the Art is hitting babs, but of course, I'm not at all sure!
Viva
Posted by beths (Member # 18864) on :
Art is used for babs alot
Posted by BoxerMom (Member # 25251) on :
randibear - It's Astragalus that Buehner does not recommend for chronic Lyme.
Artemisinin is commonly used for Babesia.
Posted by randibear (Member # 11290) on :
oh thanks.
Posted by Energyman (Member # 29178) on :
Is the astragalus a problem? I don't know if it's a problem here. I'm confused now
quote: You mentioned a stiff neck...that is also something that my husband gets. I believe a number of posts have linked that to babs, although it's such an individual thing.
He has treated for both babs and bart. Currently more aggressive on the babs front.
My understanding is that Art does hit babs, but I'm wondering about its anti-viral properties, based on Kday's post. And you're making me wonder about the chlamydia pneum. connection. It's just so difficult to sort out, isn't it???
Not to sidetrack, but I'm wondering what you've used to treat the chlamydia p., and how effective that's been.
My gut is saying that the Art is hitting babs, but of course, I'm not at all sure!
Yeah i get a super stiff neck. It returns. Also headache, which i never have. Strange!
I have chlamydia in the melisa ltt test, it could be hitting chlamydia. Chlamydia must be treated for 18 months with ABX, with doxy, mino, azi and metro. Pretty similar to a proper lyme treatment.
But it could also hit viruses or babs.... I don't know thats kinda hard to figure out, isn't it?
Posted by migs (Member # 16496) on :
Well your description of flaring pains and superstiff neck but lighter head and increased energy is EXACTLY what used to happen to me the day after I started Flagyl.
Strange that a herb would do that.
The first time was the worst...looked like I had an invisible hard collar on for days and couldn't even bend over to tie my shoes. I remember I couldn't remember what I was saying either but my brain felt lighter.
Posted by annier1071 (Member # 28977) on :
when everyone takes these new things, does your Llmd tell you to take them?
I get confused and wind up buying half the things mentioned since they are working for you, but my LLMD said to stop wasting money. He said if really am interested in something, call him first to be sure.
If this helps viral I am interested since my EPV is very high
Posted by momlyme (Member # 27775) on :
Annie- I am just like you. I have boxes of herbs, supplements, bags of powders, bottles of oils....
Anything to feel better.
I calmed down a lot when I started to see a woman who does muscle testing. She let's us know what is working and what is not. Cut the supplements my son and I take in half.
A good book for herbs is "Healing Lyme" by Stephen Buhner... you can get it from the library. Not to say you won't want to buy all the herbs in there either... I know I do!
Posted by lpkayak (Member # 5230) on :
see my post on art or check out buhner bk "healing lyme" pg 183
all these yrs and i had no idea how much stuff it kills
best if up dosage tho to 300-600 a day...take it 3 diff times see book-don't trust what i say ---i am very sick right now
ps i always felt better without herxing whn i took it tho
Posted by Energyman (Member # 29178) on :
quote:It's Astragalus that Buehner does not recommend for chronic Lyme.
The Artemisiae-2 contains astragalus root. Is this the same as the astragalus that is contraindicated for chronic lyme?
Posted by Wolfed Out (Member # 23727) on :
I don't have any information about your Astragalus question, but what is chronic Lyme anyway?
I think most of us are finding out Bb is a small part of the picture. And so, if you're feeling better, then I would stick to it.
Posted by Energyman (Member # 29178) on :
I had a horrible herx last night. Breastpain, chills... flu like feelings Posted by 365SunnyDays (Member # 29969) on :
I also take the Artemisia from Zhang. Not sure it's been helpful to me yet. After 3 weeks I haven't noticed anything, except that I have a much easier time taking Doxy -- less stomach upset. (I don't take them at the same time). My LLMD says Doxy with Zhang Artemisia will kill Babs. He also says that it is different than Artemisinin because the latter starts to not work because the body builds enzymes that will inactivate it. Apparently, the same thing does not occur from the Zhang Artemisia.
Posted by lpkayak (Member # 5230) on :
hmmmm i'm getting mixed info or artemisiinin and artemesia...not sure what to do
i think it is the sinin that you can get rsistance problems from...so need to take it 3 weeks on 1 off...but no prob with mesia???
Posted by viva (Member # 8183) on :
lpkayak,
You're right about the difference between artemisinin and artemisia, at least according to Steven Buhner.
Quote from Buhner from the Planet Thrive website:
"One caveat: artemisinin is an isolated constituent, taken from Artemisia annua. Babesia will NOT develop resistance to Artemisia annua but it may to artemisinin due to the simple nature of the compound. For long term use I DO NOT recommend the use of artemisinin but DO RECOMMEND the use of Artemisia annua whole herb and/or cryptolepis tincture. If artemisinin does not work with 90 days it probably will not work."
Viva
Posted by Energyman (Member # 29178) on :
okay thanks
Posted by annxyzz (Member # 20404) on :
How do you acquire this herb? Is there a website or phone number to order?
Posted by Tammy N. (Member # 26835) on :
I'm starting to think artemisia may be better to take than artemisinin. I had always heard that artemisinin was the more potent and better one to take. But the more I think about it, I think it is better to get the full synergistic effects from the whole plant, rather than the lab separated version. I think the nature-created whole plant is better.
Thoughts?
Posted by annxyzz (Member # 20404) on :
Bump --- Those with lyme and babs may appreciate this... I prefer artemesia annua also . It has helped me a lot.
Posted by Mo (Member # 2863) on :
is there a preferred source or type of artemesia annua?
Posted by annxyzz (Member # 20404) on :
I take artemesia annua drops by Herb Pharm , because someone else advised it on this site .
Allergy Research also has been recommended many times as well as Zhang's at Hepapro .
Posted by cleo (Member # 6646) on :
I have been doing zang art for a few months now. I take three a day for 10 days a month. Is that enough or should I be taking 4 days on and three off? That seems to be the trend on here.
Also, zang art is expensive are there any other brangs similar but cheaper?
Posted by hammer (Member # 17201) on :
Thanks for bringing thread back up. Just what I needed at just the right time!
Posted by Mo (Member # 2863) on :
i love it when that happens.
Posted by WPinVA (Member # 33581) on :
I started art two weeks ago for suspected babesia so I've been finding this thread very interesting. I'm taking it M/W/F for three weeks on and one week off.
The first week I felt worse and had increased symptoms - tippy feeling, fatigue, headache. A Herx, I guess? But this week was much better.
Posted by WPinVA (Member # 33581) on :
I started art two weeks ago for suspected babesia so I've been finding this thread very interesting. I'm taking it M/W/F for three weeks on and one week off.
The first week I felt worse and had increased symptoms - tippy feeling, fatigue, headache. A Herx, I guess? But this week was much better.
Posted by Amanda (Member # 14107) on :
artemesia and its derivative (artensunate, artimisinin) will cause an enzyme to build up after several days which causes your body to break down the art, thus making the treatment far less effective.
Doctors get around that by pulsing the dose so that the enzyme doesn't build up.
I am reading my bottle of Byron White herb tincture for EBV/HHV6 virus, and it has Artemesea annua plant as an ingredient. So, some herbalists must think it also has anti-viral properties
![[Frown]](frown.gif)