The last week i was on rocephin i began to herx which i know was normal, but i've been off rocephin since may 13th, i took a 3 day break before i started zithromax (yesterday)...
But now i just feel horrible & even worse then before... When i first started rocephin(april 14th) i started to feel great/better. Then the 4th week hit, started to herx real bad, then BAM my Dr took me off!
Will this feeling wear off? Am i stuck in the herx? im just so confused how i can feel so good then start feeling real bad Posted by bridge (Member # 30896) on :
aww.. )-: maybe you are just feeling the effects of just starting the zithromax??
Posted by Nicole2011 (Member # 30672) on :
No, i actually was feeling this when i stopped rocephin & on the last week of it
Posted by Deshi (Member # 30949) on :
you should be on for more than a month. i would ask to be put back on for another 2 months or so if you can. Wthout being able to tell when you got bit then you don't know how far it is in your body...I would also get something to combo with the zith. Amoxiiicillin is a good match. zith by itself doesnt do much for lyme.
Posted by jmb (Member # 18338) on :
So why the BAM? Why did the doctor take you off the IV? I understand if it is an insurance/financial issue. Otherwise, why not continue the IV?
Posted by Nicole2011 (Member # 30672) on :
insurance
Posted by TF (Member # 14183) on :
From page 17 of Burrascano:
"It has been observed that symptoms will flare in cycles every four weeks. It is thought that this reflects the organism�s cell cycle, with the growth phase occurring once per month (intermittent growth is common in Borrelia species). As antibiotics will only kill bacteria during their growth phase, therapy is designed to bracket at least one whole generation cycle. This is why the minimum treatment duration should be at least four weeks. If the antibiotics are working, over time these flares will lessen in severity and duration. The very occurrence of ongoing monthly cycles indicates that living organisms are still present and that antibiotics should be continued.
With treatment, these monthly symptom flares are exaggerated and presumably represent recurrent Herxheimer-like reactions as Bb enters its vulnerable growth phase and then are lysed. For unknown reasons, the worst occurs at the fourth week of treatment. Observation suggest that the more severe this reaction, the higher the germ load, and the more ill the patient. In those with long-standing highly symptomatic disease who are on I.V. therapy, the week-four flare can be very severe, similar to a serum sickness reaction, and be associated with transient leucopenia and/or elevations in liver enzymes. If this happens, decrease the dose temporarily, or interrupt treatment for several days, then resume with a lower dose. If you are able to continue or resume therapy, then patients continue to improve. Those whose treatment is stopped and not restarted at this point usually will need retreatment in the future due to ongoing or recurrent symptoms because the infection was not eradicated. Patients on I.V. therapy who have a strong reaction at the fourth week will need to continue parenteral antibiotics for several months, for when this monthly reaction finally lessens in severity, then oral or IM medications can be substituted. Indeed, it is just this observation that guides the clinician in determining the endpoint of I.V. treatment. In general, I.V. therapy is given until there is a clear positive response, and then treatment is changed to IM or po until free of signs of active infection for 4 to 8 weeks. Some patients, however, will not respond to IM or po treatment and I.V. therapy will have to be used throughout."
Insurance BAM sucks.
Posted by Nicole2011 (Member # 30672) on :
TF- thank you for that info ... So does that mean i relapsed because came off to early? i cant really read my vision is real bad
Posted by TF (Member # 14183) on :
The quote above says that lyme flares every 4 weeks.
The worst flare is on the 4th week of treatment, for some unknown reason.
If you get a really severe flare on the 4th week of IV treatment, it means you have a lot of lyme germs in your body--a lot.
"In those with long-standing highly symptomatic disease who are on I.V. therapy, the week-four flare can be very severe....
If this happens, decrease the dose temporarily, or interrupt treatment for several days, then resume with a lower dose."
So, forget relapse. Relapse means you were cured and got lyme again. That is not you.
You had the famous 4th week flare, and you had a severe one. So, you have a lot of lyme in your body. That's what it means.
It means you must treat lyme for a long time.
I am breaking up the quote so more people can hopefully read it:
"It has been observed that symptoms will flare in cycles every four weeks.
It is thought that this reflects the organism�s cell cycle, with the growth phase occurring once per month (intermittent growth is common in Borrelia species).
As antibiotics will only kill bacteria during their growth phase, therapy is designed to bracket at least one whole generation cycle.
This is why the minimum treatment duration should be at least four weeks.
If the antibiotics are working, over time these flares will lessen in severity and duration.
The very occurrence of ongoing monthly cycles indicates that living organisms are still present and that antibiotics should be continued.
With treatment, these monthly symptom flares are exaggerated and presumably represent recurrent Herxheimer-like reactions as Bb enters its vulnerable growth phase and then are lysed.
For unknown reasons, the worst occurs at the fourth week of treatment.
Observation suggest that the more severe this reaction, the higher the germ load, and the more ill the patient.
In those with long-standing highly symptomatic disease who are on I.V. therapy, the week-four flare can be very severe, similar to a serum sickness reaction, and be associated with transient leucopenia and/or elevations in liver enzymes.
If this happens, decrease the dose temporarily, or interrupt treatment for several days, then resume with a lower dose.
If you are able to continue or resume therapy, then patients continue to improve.
Those whose treatment is stopped and not restarted at this point usually will need retreatment in the future due to ongoing or recurrent symptoms because the infection was not eradicated.
Patients on I.V. therapy who have a strong reaction at the fourth week will need to continue parenteral antibiotics for several months, for when this monthly reaction finally lessens in severity, then oral or IM medications can be substituted.
Indeed, it is just this observation that guides the clinician in determining the endpoint of I.V. treatment.
In general, I.V. therapy is given until there is a clear positive response, and then treatment is changed to IM or po until free of signs of active infection for 4 to 8 weeks.
Some patients, however, will not respond to IM or po treatment and I.V. therapy will have to be used throughout."
Posted by Nicole2011 (Member # 30672) on :
TF- oh ok i see, thank you TF, Well i dont think ihopefully one of the lucky ones that doesnt have to tret lyme long since i caught it pretty early
Posted by clueless (Member # 30019) on :
hi nicole from pa!
sorry to hear about your neg reactions to whatever....... with only a 3-day break before starting the zith?? can anybody comment if that is recommended down-time???
when you say bad, like stuck in a herx.. what kind of pain are you talking about? can you be anymore specific??
my husband came off 3 months of Roc IV 3 weeks ago and now feels almost as bad as he did before starting any TX
he, too felt much better on it- but after 3 weeks now - he back in he--!!! and he's got some new stuff starting too ;-(
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... So does that mean i relapsed because came off to early? i cant really read my vision is real bad