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Originally posted by gryphon78:
yea I m wondering the same thing, just started with the samento and it seems like every morning now I wake up really shaky, anxious, dizzy.

All previous symptoms that had gone away with my regular ABX, not sure its a herx, or my lack of regular ABX is allowing it to return ?

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This looks like proof of Samento not killing the bacteria, but instead stimulating their growth.
Herxing would be with ABX too. Therefore it is recommended to use Samento only with regular ABX. Your observation seems right, its the latter.
Samento stimulates the immunesystem but also the growth of Borrelia.
 

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Posted by canaanbites (Member # 32852) on :
 
When I have one drop of Cat's Claw, I herx horribly. I can only take one drop every few days so far.
 

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Posted by Leonardjio (Member # 32906) on :
 
Why do you think this is herxing? This sounds more of an allergic reaction to me.
Do you really think one drop will kill so many bacteria that the toxins will burden you this much? Or boost your immunesystem in order to kill all of the sudden enough bacteria to make you feel this bad?
 

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Posted by Leonardjio (Member # 32906) on :
 
I was taking Cats Claw in the period that led to me crashing with Lyme borreliose, so I was wondering what the cause could be since it tested positive with energytesting. Before crashing I was doing relatively fine.

Later I found this remark in a German book on Lyme:
Petra Hopf-Seidel MD writer of the book 'Krank nach Zeckenstich'. (Sick after a tickbite):
"In vitro research of Prof Sievers, W�denswil has shown that Cats Claw not only works for the immunesystem, but it also stimulates Borrelia in its growth. Therefore I only recommend Cats Claw in combination with AB."

Maybe this could explain a few things.

The research by Prof. Martin Sievers was done with Samento, which is a Toa free Cats Claw.
The research in favor of Samento is done by Eva Sapi, who is figuring a lot in the publicity done by Nutramedix, the company that sells the stuff.
In the texts she claims succes with Samento, but only in vitro(testtube), in quantities corresponding to those that in vivo(body) would be impossible to support or afford.
The publications are clear and open on this matter.


Martin Sievers is the head of the Molecular Biology section of the Zurich University of Applied Sciences and director of the Culture Collection of Switzerland.
He studied biology at the Leibniz University of Hannover, focusing on microbiology and biochemistry. Martin Sievers received his PhD from the Christian-Albrechts-University of Kiel. In 1990 he joined the Swiss Federal Institute of Technology (ETH) Zurich, where he described Acetobacter europaeus, isolated from industrial vinegar fermentations, and Acetobacter intermedius, isolated from kombucha tea, as two new species.
In 1997 he moved to the Zurich University of Applied Sciences as a lecturer at the Institute of Biotechnology and was appointed Professor in 2002. He teaches Bachelors and Masters students in the fields of microbiology and molecular biology. Martin Sievers has also been involved in many research projects funded by the Innovation Promotion Agency CTI in Bern, Switzerland. Projects carried out with industrial partners include work on the identification of wine lactic acid bacteria, expression of membrane proteins, and diagnostics and therapy for Lyme disease.
 

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Posted by CherylSue (Member # 13077) on :
 
I had a terrible herx with banderol and samento. I've had long lasting relapse while taking 11 drops twice daily on banderol.

Everybody is different. Some it helps, but not I.
 

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Posted by canaanbites (Member # 32852) on :
 
Leonard, I think it's herxing because of the way I feel when I take it. I am not a doctor, I am only a lyme patient. But because of my experience with herxing, I am assuming that the incredibly similar feelings that I get while taking Cat's Claw may also be attributed to a herx reaction.

Maybe this is actually an allergic reaction to the Cat's Claw. But I assumed it was a herx because I have read so many people's experiences with Cat's Claw and herxing on even a drop or two.

Thanks for your post! It definately got me thinking. CB
 

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Posted by Brussels (Member # 13480) on :
 
It can be a herx, and LOADS of people here took cats claw and Samento for years or long enough to know how much this can be powerful. And it is!

Many still believe only drugs are powerful to kill, but TOO MANY people here in these last 6 years since the publication of Buhner book (and even before, as dr. C. was already using Samento and dr. K too at a REGULAR base to treat lyme) to know that this IS powerful.

Ignoring the experience of all these people, plus Dr. K, dr.C, and more recently, Buhner's followers, is to be blind.

For me, the best thing to know if someone has lyme is take cats claw. Most people react to cats claw, if they got active borrelia. Not all, but MOST, for what I've been reading here in the last 6 years.

so, recommendation is to start SLOW.

SO MANY people here in LN posted how they crashed on very low dose of cats claw or samento. I prefer cats claw (it took it for whole 2 years), but could never reach highest dose, too strong for me.

Go slow, and definitively, you are not the only one that took many abx to see that a herb could still kill after all those drugs.

Some people swear that no abx can kill as much as samento only (for them). Some are on only cats claw for maintenance, no more drugs.

It is powerful. And Japanese knotweed, sometimes even more powerful (for me, it was very strong!).

Check also threads on cumanda. Amazingly powerful too.
 

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