My dr who diagnosed me with lyme did the tests at MDL who are a lab in NJ that ILADS of SE PA uses. My llmd says their tests aren't reliable. Does anyone know if Ingenex takes insurance and if MDL isn't reliable why does South Eastern PA Lyme Assoc. refer you to them in the back of their booklet?
Posted by fourwinds (Member # 14114) on :
I, last month, had MDL labs done by my PCP and they came back negative.
MDL's "fine print" states: "Bands presented must have an intensity of 90% greater or equal to the cut off control band."
I had quite a few bands that were dark to very dark, but did not hit their "requirement".
In reviewing my explanation of benefits these tests cost my insurance company approx. $650.00.
IMO a waste of money, but that's just my opinion.
I also then had Igenex tests done by my new LLMD and they were positive.
I paid $596.00 out of pocket for Igenex. (Bart and Bab's FISH, plus Western Blot's)
I will know more tomorrow after my first visit with him.
My personal opinion is that my current PCP may not have a clue in how to correctly interpret an Igenex test....but that may be why he ordered MDL... just my experience.
But I am curious too... why do these doctors bother using MDL labs?
My new LLMD said they weren't reliable either.
Posted by Kramberry (Member # 34032) on :
You guys might be seeing the same practitioner?
My practitioner uses igenex my test for coinfection show positive bartonella.
Is mdl cheaper than igenex?
Posted by ChuckG (Member # 19093) on :
fourwinds,
I've never seen MDL results. Post every detail of your MDL results.
Also post your IGeneX results. Band #, IND, +, ++, +++, ++++. Most of the bands will be - so you can ignore them.
Posted by amk33 (Member # 13206) on :
MDL is horrible. Might as well use Quest or LabCorp, then. I have never been positive by MDL, but always positive on Igenex, and had a positive flow cytometry test, which detects the actual bacteria, so which lab would I go with? Igenex for sure!
Also, MDL always says I have no bands present, yet, I had the vaccine, which should show 31 as positive. More proof that they suck.
Posted by fourwinds (Member # 14114) on :
ChuckG
The MDL test results are not in format like Igenex...
It has an actual picture of the bands with the numbers.
My bands which were quite dark (but did not hit "their 90%" were
MDL: IgG: 45, 41, 39,28, 23
IgM: 45,41,39,28,23,18
My Igenex Test (which I just got a copy of today)
IgM = Negative
IgG 31 kDa IND 39 kDa IND 41 kDa ++ 58 kDa +
Hopefully I have conveyed these correctly.
(I might add this Igenex test has been done after I have been on combination abx for 4 years...
but only at bacteriostatic levels for Lyme as I was treating for CPN... (was told I didn't have Lyme 4 yrs ago)
I also had bio-energenic testing done which indicated I have high levels of Babesia Nosodes, Bartonella Henselae, Mycoplasma Fermentens and high candida albicans.
[ 10-27-2011, 11:38 PM: Message edited by: fourwinds ]
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
quote:Originally posted by amk33: Also, MDL always says I have no bands present, yet, I had the vaccine, which should show 31 as positive. More proof that they suck.
- I don't think they even test for band 31 .. same with Quest and LabCorp.
the basic Igenex test is around $200 .. Test #188 and 189
Tincup's link is also found there .. same place.
Posted by amk33 (Member # 13206) on :
Lymetoo, Fourwinds, I didn't know MDL didn't include those bands. That explains it! So, they are just like LabCorp and Quest, afterall. Strange, cuz the llmd that I used to see, used MDL primarily. I had to request Igenex. And, she's a very prominent Llmd!
I'm seeing a doctor now who is learning about lyme (and takes my insurance). She also uses MDL. I'm going to have to enlighten her! Thanks. Posted by susank (Member # 22150) on :
I find it interesting that MDL provides a picture of band reactions. Igenex does not. I think they should.
Posted by ChuckG (Member # 19093) on :
quote:Originally posted by fourwinds: ChuckG
The MDL test results are not in format like Igenex...
It has an actual picture of the bands with the numbers.
My bands which were quite dark (but did not hit "their 90%" were
MDL: IgG: 45, 41, 39,28, 23
IgM: 45,41,39,28,23,18
My Igenex Test (which I just got a copy of today)
IgM = Negative
IgG 31 kDa IND 39 kDa IND 41 kDa ++ 58 kDa +
Hopefully I have conveyed these correctly.
I also had bio-energenic testing done which indicated I have high levels of Babesia Nosodes, Bartonella Henselae, Mycoplasma Fermentens and high candida albicans.
Thank you.
To possibly turn your IGeneX IgG indeterminate into an IGeneX positive, have IGeneX run test #489 31 kDa Epitope Test IgG $108. If it is positive then IgG 31 kDa IND is lyme.
Does the "their 90%" apply to all bands? Do they list values for each band? Any? All?
Are their band markers at 31, 34, 58, 60, 66 etc? Do you see weak bands at any of them?
Wish I could see the report.
Posted by ChuckG (Member # 19093) on :
quote:Originally posted by fourwinds: Lymetoo
You are right... Igenex adds 3 specific bands (31,34 and 83) and 3 non-specific bands (22,37,73)
MDL doesn't include these
Any tips for getting reimbursed??
Everybody tests for band 83. It frequently is listed as 93 or 94.
I have yet to find a single + for IGeneX bands 22 and 73.
IGeneX doesn't test for 37.
Posted by susank (Member # 22150) on :
Has anyone else tested with MDL and received a picture copy of their band reactions? Could post the image here?
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
I think some LLMDs use MDL because insurance will pay. Same with Q and LC.
Posted by ChuckG (Member # 19093) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lymetoo: I just kept calling them .. I really don't remember how I did it. That was 11 yrs ago!!
Band 83-93 is "just" the DNA of the Bb... though ChuckG says it's not.
It isn't.
Interesting thing is that it has a "corkscrew" structure and has been associated with the flagellin/flagella.
And like the flagellar proteins, it isn't normally surface exposed.
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
Do you consider it to be a strong indication of Lyme and/or Lyme specific?
Posted by ChuckG (Member # 19093) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lymetoo: Do you consider it to be a strong indication of Lyme and/or Lyme specific?
IGeneX considers it specific. I have only seen one report of a false positive on 83-93.
I did a BLASTP search for cross reactions last year but have forgotten the results and can't find them.
It only shows up at low levels in Normal Controls just behind 39.
EDIT: I found another source. It does cross react. With syph, flu, RA, SLE whatever that is, but only 3 of 291 normal controls.
[ 10-27-2011, 09:35 PM: Message edited by: ChuckG ]
Posted by WPinVA (Member # 33581) on :
I think some LLMDs use MDL because insurance will pay. Same with Q and LC.
----
Yup, that's what mine did. She said that if we can get a positive with LC then no need to pay for Igenex. And Igenex is always a second option.
Posted by JAC (Member # 34240) on :
Susank, MDL sent back the bands with a picture of how stong the indicators are on it. My idicators were high. They still post on their report that if its under 5 bands you are not positive for lyme.
I can't post that chart in here though. Hard enough figuring out how to chat! Posted by 8man12 (Member # 7664) on :
I could never figure why Igenex does not accept insurance. They get there money either way.
I know patients who never made it to LLMDs because they knew the cost of testing at Igenex.
I believe 1 band of BB is lyme disease if the symptoms fit.
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