I need to differentiate Babesia from Brucella. I'm having a relapse that seems like Babesia, but with new features. (I've read Dr. H's observations on the similarities.)
Fever (never had with Babesia) Sweating - evenings and nights (more than with Babs) Rapidly alternating chills and fever (more than with Babs) Dizziness (new for me) Wet eyes in a.m. (new for me) Dry eyes in p.m. (new for me) Intense global pressure headaches (new for me) Joint pain (new for me) Hip and sacroiliac pain (like with Babs, but worse) Fatigue Brain fog Nausea (new for me) Afternoon energy drop (same as with Babs) Jaw and dental pain (same as with Babs, maybe worse) Cold feet (same as with Babs) Bone pain (same as with Bart)
I know! It all sounds like Babesia!!! But I'm lacking the air hunger, depression, and apathy that I associate with Babesia.
My symptoms are improving with Doxy/Rifampin, which is the standard of care for Brucella. At my last LLND appt, I said I wanted a break from the Mepron and Malarone combos. I wanted to go on Doxy, because I'd never been on it (Mino girl, here), and Rifampin, for Bart and other potential lurkers. I'm on Zith and Diflucan, too.
I really feel like I've uncovered a new infection. I thought it was Erlichia, because of the dry eyes, but now, with the other new symptoms, I'm beginning to think Brucella.
Of course, I've read links galore. Did I bookmark them? No. But my symptoms all fit Brucella.
I guess I could do the obvious and get tested, but I thought I'd check with Lymenet first.
Is this Brucella?
I was exposed in OK - no cows there. (Kidding. Moo.)
Posted by seekhelp (Member # 15067) on :
You got me wondering. This is the ONE thing I was never tested for. Hmmmmmm.... Got a lot of symptoms on that list. No ID doc or LLMD looked for it and I SAW Dr H's office.
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
We had a member here about 8-10 yrs ago who figured out this was her main problem and BOOM she got well within months of being treated for it. Haven't seen her here in that many years.
Go for it!
PS .. She had been exposed while in Europe.
Posted by BoxerMom (Member # 25251) on :
Brucella is the new kid on the block, so to speak. The LLMDs are just starting to test and treat for it.
It seems so obvious, with the cow/goat/deer/dog reservoirs and all. Geez, is there anything a tick doesn't carry?
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- Thanks so much for that important reminder about Brucella. We all need to learn so much, not just for ourselves but as the look-outs for those we know.
The animal connection brought this back into my mind today. Also important to know about this.
[ 01-18-2012, 01:59 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
Posted by bcb1200 (Member # 25745) on :
Yes..Dr. H now says all must be tested for Brucellosis as a differential diagnosis for those patients with continued sweats and who have failed to respond to Babesia protocols.
Posted by daystar1952 (Member # 3255) on :
It's interesting. Don Scott wrote a book...The Brucellosis Triangle. He talks about how the brucellosis toxin has been removed from the brucellosis germ and has been crystalized so that the toxin can be aerosolized or injected into other microorganisms.
This process can confuse diagnosis and treatment.You can also have symptoms of one disease combined with another, yet one of the culprits may not be able to be identified. I don't know if babesia and other germs have been genetically modified in this specific way but it's something we need to think about.
Posted by jackie51 (Member # 14233) on :
Can brucellosis be chronic? That is, could you get infected as a child and have symptoms later in life?
Posted by Lymebulldog (Member # 35068) on :
An acquaintance of mine has Brucellosis and she is not doing well. She became ill in 1998- and found out at that time that she had Lyme. When symptoms became much worse years later, she found out about her infection with Brucella.
Her Brucellosis symptoms seem to mimic Bartonellosis.
She has severe uveitis with what appears as partial muscle contraction around one eye, she has terrible burning sensations in her body, she has issues with her heart that have had her on calcium channel blockers,
she has sensations of fluid building in her lungs and so has to take a diuretic, she has paper dry and thin skin (especially on her hands), she has terrible dryness in her throat
(lack of saliva and a hit in a salivary gland via a galium scan had several doctors believing that she had sarcoidosis- which was disproven),
she experiences thinning hair, severe fatigue, she has terrible nodules/lumps that run along her spine, and on, and on, and on.
She was treated with a particular drug for this disease (I'm sorry that I can't remember which at the time of this post)...but, in her opinion the disease has become deeply entrenched in her body.
I recall her telling me once that after learning that Brucella invades one's bone marrow, she "stopped reading about this pathogen because it was just too upsetting."
Like the other co-infections, not a pleasant experience at all. And as I'm sure that most of us here are, she is just the nicest woman you'd ever want to meet. So sad.
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(breaking up the post for easier reading for many here)
[ 09-03-2016, 03:13 AM: Message edited by: Robin123 ]
Posted by aperture (Member # 34822) on :
Brucella can be chronic. I was recently diagnosed IgM and IgG positive. I grew up on a farm and was around cows alot as a small child. I also drank unpasteurized milk at that time.
My LLMD and my (now former)ID both agree that my case is a chronic form of the disease. My immune system kept it at bay for decades, but now it cannot keep it under control anymore.
Although the ID agreed that my case was chronic, he still thought treatment would only be 6 weeks of Doxy/Rifampin. Thankfully, my LLMD knows to treat it long-term if necessary.
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
quote:Originally posted by jackie51: Can brucellosis be chronic? That is, could you get infected as a child and have symptoms later in life?
- Yes, my friend who had this had been exposed maybe 20 yrs prior to her diagnosis. She had been ill quite awhile.
Posted by GiGi (Member # 259) on :
I had all seven (Borrelia, Bartonella, Ehrlichia, Rickettsia, Mycoplasma - many different ones. Nanobacter, Babesia, Chlamydia, plus Brucella, and to this day I couldn't tell one infection from the other, even if I still had them.
Whether bit by a tick or by a horsefly, or by a mosquito, or infected via air, chances we get the whole mixture is very possible.
I got bit by whatever it was while sitting in a meadow (infested with ticks) in Hawaii, watching cows grazing next to me on the hillside, under a beautiful Hawaiian sky. It changed my life totally, forever.
Nothing, nothing whatsoever (several month of abx IV), got me well until I cleaned up my own terrain, my toxic body that had accumulated over many years with metals in my mouth, root canals, lifelong chemical exposure via foods and the other essentials in the bathroom, including the bleached toilet paper.
And since most of the metals that have contaminated our body, at that point we, our own body, is also growing fungi in order to assure our own survival, no matter how miserable we feel. Of course, if you add abx on top of that, fungi gets to be an even worse problem.
Only a total approach - years of detoxing the body - will eventually bring results.
Some of it will always be in hiding due to CCSVI, as I recently learned, when I did the intervention with angioblasty, etc. You would have to be on the ball and catch them right away, with abx, metal cleanup, and vascular support, etc. and in a few days all was done with for me.
These bugs are survivors - but so are we.
The only form of testing that worked for me is kinesiology --- ART, tensor, etc. The autonomic nervous system tells immediately what it is dealing with when this type of testing is done. This testing of my own and by Dr. K. reminded me that I had tested for brucellosis more than ten years ago. Had hardly ever tested positive for it again until I took action and did the angioblasty treatment.
We really need to work on the biofilm and work on general detox. Only that way are you able to evict the critters to where life can become normal again.
Bionic 880 photons, do not reduce the critters, i.e. they do not kill. They modulate the immune system. But it is important to be aware of all that is "mobilized" by them and to protect oneself.
For all the reasons above, I like the KLC a lot (Klinghardt Lyme Cocktail) which addresses the total problem, with slight alterations based on frequent muscle testing. Picking out one single organism is sort of useless. They all live together in the contaminated terrain. Clean up the body and then we have a chance.
Take care.
Posted by sparkle7 (Member # 10397) on :
I was kind of shocked to see this pop up... I read about it a long time ago.
I ditto daystar. There's this book, as well -
The Extremely Unfortunate Skull Valley Incident By Donald W. Scott
Not to be fear mongering but it's a pretty serious concern in my mind.
Posted by nefferdun (Member # 20157) on :
I could be infected with brucella. They are always testing the bison in yellowstone park and killing the infected ones so the disease does not spread to the cattle because it causes them to abort their babies.
I go to the doctor soon and i will ask to be tested. i know I have babesia duncani though because I tested positive and it is very resistant to treatment.
It is about that time of year when I am surprised with another infection I did not know I had!
Posted by blinkie (Member # 14470) on :
so, where is a good lab for this test?
Posted by Dogsandcats (Member # 28544) on :
I just tested positive for Brucella. Explains the relentless drenches.
Posted by seibertneurolyme (Member # 6416) on :
This is a link to an old thread on brucella that includes a few medical abstracts. It gets off track about halfway through and discusses mycoplasma and germ warfare etc.
But the first part is very informative. I remembered that brucella required 3 meds in combo -- not just the doxy and rifampin. I had thought the third med was flagyl but the thread mentioned IV streptomycin which could be replaced with oral zithromax.
The doses seem low compared to what the docs prescribe now, but remember it is the specific combo of meds sometimes which make them effective rather than high doses of a single med.
that explains why after 3 months on rifampin, mino and zith I felt sooooo good. Then I screwed it all up by switching to treat babs. Now I don't feel good anymore. I thought I had the brucella under control after a yr on rifampin.
Guess not. I wonder if I even have babs.
Posted by CD57 (Member # 11749) on :
I thought that brucella was a lot closer in symptomology to bartonella. It's also a gram negative bacteria. I don't see how it relates to babesia at all?
Posted by blinkie (Member # 14470) on :
which lab?
Posted by aperture (Member # 34822) on :
CD57: My LLMD originally thought I had Bartonella, but the Brucella test was very positive. So I think you are right.
Blinkie: My LLMD ordered the test on a regular prescription slip ("Brucella IgG and IgM") and the hospital lab did it. I think they send it off somewhere else. I also know that Labcorp does it as well.
(I can't figure out how to use quotes from previous posts and don't have the brain energy to find out. Sorry)
Posted by jlcd1 (Member # 18138) on :
blinkie: I had my test done at Albany Medical Center, a local hospital. All my co-infection tests were done there, except babs which igenex did.
babesia and brucella can be confused because they each cause sweats. Not sure which other symptoms are the same.
bart and brucella have similar treatments.
Posted by CD57 (Member # 11749) on :
Undoubtedly there can be a cross reaction on these tests, esp between bart and brucella. the tests still suck.
Posted by blinkie (Member # 14470) on :
Funny...I still have sweats and I'm on high dose malarone. All other babs symptoms are gone. Even the sweats are "different" not as frequent and pretty predictable. Thought it was hormones but now that I see this and I still have a few other symptoms, I think I could have brucella as well.
I'm going to get tested for this at my next apt.
Posted by lymeboy (Member # 24769) on :
is the test reliable?
Posted by aperture (Member # 34822) on :
lymeboy: My test came back with high IgG and IgM. My LLMD told me "this was not due to cross-reactivity, you have brucella".
Even the ID doc accepted the results (Shocking!), and they had to notify the health dept. So, I think you can count on the results.
Posted by aperture (Member # 34822) on :
Interestingly, since my LLMD has started testing for Brucella a couple of months ago, she already has 4 confirmed cases. My thought is, many people have it and Dr's don't realize it because they aren't testing for it.
I read some of "The Brucellosis Triangle" and it made me want to vomit. (I am NOT a conspiracy theorist, however, it is VERY disturbing to know I have a disease that had been weaponized) Posted by blinkie (Member # 14470) on :
I forgot to add that I grew up on a farm and we drank unpastarized goats milk....interesting.
Posted by aperture (Member # 34822) on :
OMG blinkie, same history as mine. Posted by ktkdommer (Member # 29020) on :
Got me wondering...
Raised in Wisconsin on a farm, best friend had dairy farm, grandfather had cattle on his farm n ND, spent time in 4-H barns etc...
I think I will be asking my doctor for Brucella IgG and IgM.
What is the treatment protocol for brucella?
I am wondering if this is the key to why my sister is not getting well. She literally has something wrong with every part of her body from head to toe.
I'd love to read more from those experienced with brucella.
Posted by aperture (Member # 34822) on :
ktkdommer: I'm on Doxy and Rifampin for the Brucella. I'm also on Plaquenil for Lyme (along w/Doxy and Rifampin).
lymeboy: I meant to say that I feel that a positive test is reliable. Like Lyme and co., I'm not sure if a negative test means that you don't have it. Confusing Posted by blinkie (Member # 14470) on :
Read The Extremely Unfortunate Skull Valley Incident, also by the Scotts (who wrote the other book mentioned above).
Posted by leetooke (Member # 36184) on :
Aperture- Recently Suspected I have Brucella. What lab is a good lab to get tested for it? Does Igenex test for it?
New to the idea of Brucella and trying to get to the bottom of things. I was told by a ND using an Bioenergetic machine that I had Brucella and it was my main problem right now along with candida. Thanks for your help.
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(breaking up the paragraph for easier reading for many here)
[ 09-03-2016, 03:16 AM: Message edited by: Robin123 ]
Posted by mlg (Member # 35383) on :
I was tested for it as I requested it. I had night sweats/fevers, chills and had done some research. My LLMD tested me for Brucella and it came back negative. But I tested positive for mycoplasma fermentes, babesia duncanti, lyme, etc.
I think you need to attack the parasites, biofilm, and detox as a priority. I only seem to take greater strides when I attack parasites base anti-biotic and major detox.
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(breaking up the paragraph for easier reading for many here)
[ 09-03-2016, 03:16 AM: Message edited by: Robin123 ]
Posted by anuta (Member # 22646) on :
Boxer mom, why you decided it was not Erlichia? I have had all of these symptoms when Erlichia surfaced and Doxy/ Rifampin is a standard care for Erlichia too. So I wouldnt rule it out.
I agree with Gigi energetic tests are the easiest and sometimes the only way to find out. The diagnosis made based on symptoms only is biased.
Posted by teragram (Member # 45011) on :
Just ran across this thread, bc I don't know if I have Babs (which I thought I had always had) or now Brucella (because now my flares have become much more extreme).
In the meantime, I can't do abx, bc I'm also having c. diff.
What to do?
Posted by bluelyme (Member # 47170) on :
Llmd said agricept and gse mix got rid of c diff with fmt ...i know a herbal guy is really pricey tho...can you afford rife , bvt ?
Posted by dbpei (Member # 33574) on :
My LLMD has used both herbs and ABX for brucellosis. The herbs we used to target it were Byron White A-BIO and also MC-CH from Beyond Balance. Over the course of a year, these herbs have taken down my IGG values (from Quest) quite a bit, but they still need to come down more.
Posted by teragram (Member # 45011) on :
That's interesting, I was just googling agricept a few minutes ago.
Meanwhile, dbpei, I just talked to my LLMD, and she said to use the A BIO and the MC-CH. Thanks for the confirmation.
I can't afford rife, but I have a FAR Infrared sauna. The problem is, it's located in a musty room, and I've tested positive for mold.
I might try just heating it on its own for awhile, and maybe that will at least kill the mold that's inside the unit (it's one of those tunnel units).
I could probably do bvt, but I'm on a beta blocker, which is contraindicated for BVT.
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(breaking up the post for easier reading for many here)
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