OK guys. So, while I wait on my bloodwork to come back, I'm starting to anticipate my impending treatment. I am curious about herxing.
It sounds like my LLMD doc will definitely be starting me out on oral antibiotics and some supplements if and when I am offically diagnosed.
I am wondering if you all can tell me what herxing is like? Does it start immediately or after a couple weeks? Does it usually occur shortly after taking your pills?
I already feel horrible and hurt all over badly a lot of the time, so I'm wondering how I'm going to tollerate hurting even worse. Does anybody's doc give them pain meds to help with the worst of it?
Thanks in advance for any advice/stories you can give me to help me prepare myself.
Posted by TF (Member # 14183) on :
"Several days after the onset of appropriate antibiotic therapy, symptoms often flare due to lysis of the spirochetes with release of increased amount of antigenic material and possibly bacterial toxins. This is referred to as a Jarisch Herxheimer-like reaction. Because it takes 48 to 72 hours of therapy to initiate bacterial killing, the Herxheimer reaction is therefore delayed. This is unlike syphilis, in which these reactions can occur within hours.
It has been observed that symptoms will flare in cycles every four weeks. It is thought that this reflects the organism�s cell cycle, with the growth phase occurring once per month (intermittent growth is common in Borrelia species). As antibiotics will only kill bacteria during their growth phase, therapy is designed to bracket at least one whole generation cycle. This is why the minimum treatment duration should be at least four weeks. If the antibiotics are working, over time these flares will lessen in severity and duration. The very occurrence of ongoing monthly cycles indicates that living organisms are still present and that antibiotics should be continued.
With treatment, these monthly symptom flares are exaggerated and presumably represent recurrent Herxheimer-like reactions as Bb enters its vulnerable growth phase and then are lysed. For unknown reasons, the worst occurs at the fourth week of treatment. Observation suggest that the more severe this reaction, the higher the germ load, and the more ill the patient. In those with long-standing highly symptomatic disease who are on I.V. therapy, the week-four flare can be very severe...."
So, the herx will start 2-3 days after starting the meds and it will worsen your current symptoms and may also cause new ones.
Drink lots of water to clear out the dead germs and squeeze fresh lemon juice into the water as it is a natural cleanser of the body.
If you are not on high doses and combinations of antibiotics, you may not herx. My first herx lasted a week. The first 3 days were half bad and the next 4 days were not so bad.
Everyone is different. I was apprehensive also. I never herxed on lousy lyme treatment. Only on the combination of antibiotics did I herx.
Posted by js8 (Member # 37715) on :
Thank you TF! That was very helpful and informative!
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- Start the support methods FIRST. Now, if possible.
And start PROBIOTICS now.
Begin food plan changes now, too, so it becomes second nature if it's not already.
Many LLMDs suggest going gluten-free. That's another whole thread of itself but a web search can help, too, just still avoid processed foods.
Go for lots of veggies, even for breakfast. Good protein and good fats.
You are probably already clear of additives but, just to be sure:
�� Nutritional Supplements in Disseminated Lyme Disease ��
J.J. Burrascano, Jr., MD (2008) - Four pages
==============================
It's very important to have this book as a reference tool for self-care and support measures. It answers so many questions in detail that is impossible here on the forum.
Integrative / Holistic M.D., etc. (Be aware that those in this category can have various levels of formal herbal &/or nutritional education, perhaps even just a short course. Do ask first.)
Links to many articles and books by holistic-minded LL doctors of various degrees . . . -
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- You ask about pain medication prescriptions.
The thing with many of those is they can be very hard on the liver &/or kidneys and many pain meds don't address the reason for the pain, very often a stressed liver.
If the liver is better supported, the pain is usually less. Same with nerve fiber support, adrenal support, etc. Nutrients can make a world of difference - especially MAGNESIUM & FISH OIL.
However, each doctor and each patient is unique. How your LLMD handles that is hard to know.
There are many ways to manage and even get ahead of the pain. The support methods in links above are all about that. More detail here:
If you do a search on any of these topics within lymenet, you will get the specifics of each method.
Posted by js8 (Member # 37715) on :
Wow Keebler - thanks for all the wonderful information and links! I've got a lot of reading to do and I know it will be extremely helpful! Thank you!
YinYang - Thank you for those suggestions! I love baths, so now I have a great excuse to take them - LOL!
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- js,
about those baths: WARM, not hot. Twenty minutes max if fatigue and "payback" for exertion are elements of your current life. If you don't experience "payback" you might go longer but not HOT, most with lyme can really crash from heat.
Cozy warm to nearly hot is great and enough to produce sweat and increase circulation and help epsom salts get absorbed.
Play in the water, too, "swim" and splash about. A rubber ducky can make it fun if you have one around (but a new one would off-gas).
If you have a vinyl shower curtain, best to get that out of the house, though. They off-gas forever. Fabric curtains (without a teflon coating) are good. Many polyester and nylon weaves are naturally water resistant and require no vinyl liners.
Enjoy what you can. Breathe through the rest with whatever joys you can bring around yourself. -
Posted by js8 (Member # 37715) on :
Thank you Keebler <3
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
The short version:
You will feel worse! Posted by js8 (Member # 37715) on :
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)