Spirochete antigens persist near cartilage after murine Lyme borreliosis therapy
This is the first direct demonstration that inflammatory B. burgdorferi components can persist near cartilaginous tissue after treatment for Lyme disease.
In other words...we never fully chopped up ALL of Bb's proteins (esp. C2 and C4) and their presence/dead Bb keeps triggering an immune response.
Posted by Razzle (Member # 30398) on :
My personal suspicion is that this occurs when one is treated with TOO LOW a dose of abx. initially (e.g., 200mg/day doxy for 10 days instead of the Burrascano recommended 400mg/day for 6 weeks (or longer))...
Otherwise, how would one explain those of us getting better and having symptoms permanently disappear with higher dose & longer-term abx???
JMHO...
Posted by poppy (Member # 5355) on :
Yes, and infectious spirochetes may be producing those inflammatory remnants. This does not disprove chronic lyme exists and is caused by continuing infection. Autopsy and biopsy have found those spirochetes.
Posted by Marnie (Member # 773) on :
Live spirochetes found in an autopsy (when the person/animal is DEAD)?
It does appear Bb persists in live cells that are targeted to die.
I think we continue to respond to C1, C2 and C4 proteins that were failed to be "cleaved"...chopped apart and perhaps to dead spirochetes also.
The mistake is...immediately when infected we need to get the inflammation down (not via steroids) AND AT THE SAME TIME give abx.
"At the 1997 LDF conference, a study was presented using na�ve beagles as subjects.
In this study, three groups of six beagles were studied. One group of six was infected; using infected ticks, and treated with four weeks of amoxicillin. Another group was infected and treated with a double dose of doxycycline for four weeks.
The third group was the control. In the doxycycline treated group, at three months post-treatment, it *appeared* that 100% were cured.
(Me - finding/SEEING CWD pathogens capable of rebuilding cell walls is VERY hard.)
But, at two years at autopsy, five of the six (5/6) beagles were shown to have active infection, or complete relapse.
So...they gave the dogs lyme, looked for spirochetes and found none in the doxy treated group, figured they were cured, but 2 years later the dogs died (or were killed for research purposes) and and they found (immediately - or relatively quickly) live spirochetes.
Since Bb requires a constant supply of glucose and ***especially our amino acids - purines to make his RNA and DNA), I highly doubt Bb could survive long in a dead animal...nutrient supply runs out and our enzyme production likely shuts off. It slows down as we age.
Bb need our system "up and running" to help HIM survive.
At one time, some biologists argued that pathogens would tend to evolve toward ever decreasing virulence because
***the death of the host (or even serious disability) is ultimately harmful to the pathogen living inside.***
For example, if the host dies, the pathogen population inside may die out entirely.
Therefore, it was believed that less virulent pathogens that allowed the host to move around and interact with other hosts should have greater success reproducing and dispersing.
But this is not necessarily the case.
***Pathogen strains that kill the host can increase in frequency as long as the pathogen can transmit itself to a new host,***
The key word is "ultimately" ...sooner or later a live spirochete dies within a dead animal if it is not transmitted to another host likely within a short period of time.
[ 07-06-2012, 01:54 PM: Message edited by: Marnie ]
Posted by poppy (Member # 5355) on :
Autopsies find many bacteria, when they are looked for, and obviously they are not still alive. But dead spirochetes in an autopsy are not the same as remnants/antigens. And the people who did this study know that and are part of the IDSA cabal.