If you walk around with your hand in the area you can feel the muscle moving, right?
I know I can avoid hitting a bone. But are there ligaments/tendons in the area I could accidently hit?
BTW the needles are 22ga 1".
Thanks. To add: How can you locate the "sweet spot" when sitting and looking down?
[ 09-01-2012, 08:41 PM: Message edited by: susank ]
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
I can't help you, but you MUST be aware of the location of the sciatic nerve.
Posted by YinYang (Member # 36358) on :
Would you rather try to do it yourself in the thigh? It likely hurts more but your chances of endangering yourself go down exponentially. I didn't get instruction on using the thigh, but I know it is an option.
Posted by Melanie Reber (Member # 3707) on :
VERY few patients can tolerate the pain associated with injecting in the thigh. Please think twice before trying that!
Self-injecting has its own issues that you need to be aware of too. It is very difficult to see the syringe in order to inspect it for blood when aspirating.
Also, it is imperative that you know exactly where to inject in the upper, outer hip. Yes, the sciatic is there but also IF you should hit a blood vessel, you can go into instant anaphalactic (sp) shock. Do you have an eppipen? Are you versed in using it? Do you have someone that you can count on to make sure you are OK after each self-injection?
If you are going that route, please make sure that you are supervised the first few times.
Posted by Ellen101 (Member # 35432) on :
I use the ventrogluteal site for bicillin. I could not handle the dorsogluteal site due to severe pain in that area. There are alot of good sites on the internet explaining how to locate it.
As long as you aspirate you will know if you are in a vein or not. In the beginning I traced my hand on a piece of paper and used the cutout to help me locate the proper location.
Posted by sammy (Member # 13952) on :
You never want to give Bicillin LA in the thigh because the thigh muscle is not large enough to accommodate the amount of medicine you need to inject. You will injure your thigh muscle.
You can only inject Bicillin LA in the dorsogluteal and ventrogluteal sites. And yes, you can learn to give these to yourself
OK, here's what I did. I would stand in a full length mirror to help me visualize the areas. For ventrogluteal, put your hand on your hip. Rest your first pointer finger on your front hip bone and thumb on your back butt dimple, your thumb and first finger form a V, the rest of your hand drops down.
The injection area will be in the V. Firmly press a finger (kinda dig in) in the V area, feel for a nice soft muscle spot. You don't want a hard bone spot or a tender sore spot. Move your leg up and down. You should feel nice muscle. That is your spot!
Take a pen or marker and circle that spot. Always mark the spot to make it easier to administer the injection.
You can apply EMLA cream to help numb the area. Let it sit for at least 30 min. You could also use ice for 20min prior to the injection for more numbness.
When you are ready gather your supplies and sit down somewhere comfortable. Feel your site again and make sure that it is still good. Because you have more flesh pooled when you sit you don't have to pinch. Remove the EMLA cream with alcohol. Then scrub the site good with alcohol. Spread the skin with one hand, hold the syringe with another hand, dart the syringe into your circle site.
Now rest the pinky edge of your syringe hand down on the skin, use it to hold the skin and take your other hand to pull back on the plunger for a couple seconds. This is how you will aspirate. If you see no blood, go ahead and slowly inject the Bicillin. If your muscle tenses, pause and relax for a couple seconds. You have time to give this at your own pace.
When you are done, pull the needle out, put a band-aid at the site. Gently massage and put pressure at the site. Then apply a warm compress. The heat helps disperse the medicine and helps to prevent bumps. You can also continue to massage with the heat. This also helps. I found that walking in place while my heat pack was warming up helped to prevent stiffness in my muscle.
So there you go, that's what I did. If you have any questions, ask away. I may have forgotten to specify something.
As Ellen said, there are lots of good sites to help you understand and visualize the ventrogluteal site. Then you will at least see the landmarks that i am talking about and know that you are in the right place.
Posted by Dogsandcats (Member # 28544) on :
I am so grateful my neighbor was a retired nurse....
Can you find anyone that has been a nurse....or is a nurse?
It took so long for the liquid to go in, be very still.
Good luck!
Posted by Ellen101 (Member # 35432) on :
Sammy I always do the injection standing, never tried it sitting down. Is that how you have done it?
Posted by Dogsandcats (Member # 28544) on :
There are several you tubes that show how to do it....
Posted by sammy (Member # 13952) on :
You could give the injection while standing, just lean all of your weight on the opposite leg. If you do it this way, stand somewhere near a counter or a bed frame or a wall so that you can rest your body and not fall if you get tired.
I just preferred to give the shots to myself while sitting. It was easier for me because I felt horrible and didn't tolerate standing long.
Posted by Bluesfatique (Member # 37432) on :
I thought these injections could be dangerous if injected into a blood vessel. I would never do it myself
Posted by Ellen101 (Member # 35432) on :
They can be dangerous if given in a blood vessel, that's why you need to aspirate.
Posted by YinYang (Member # 36358) on :
Wow, my LLMD said she would teach me how to do them in the thigh if I was planning to be giving them to myself. I feel like I need to clarify with her. I'm sorry, in no way intended to pass along bad info. Looks like many people have good advice, here. Good luck!
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
I know when you said that, Yin Yang, I was cringing. I have tried B12 shots there and it was painful. Those are not even CLOSE to the pain of a Bicillin shot.
Ouchy!
Posted by Ellen101 (Member # 35432) on :
Yin Yang, my LLNP told me I could also give them in my upper thigh. I did it once, can't say I'd want to do it again.
Posted by susank (Member # 22150) on :
OK - I just did it.
VentroGlut. This was a bit too up close and personal - as I would rather not see or hear anything. But obviously I had to be watching.
I could hear the blood pounding in my ears - and over that I could hear the air bubbles pop - seems like that happened twice. I had not previously heard the famous bubble noise. I think if my sister - my usual shot giver - had heard it - she would have said something. So why my first self-inject did this happen? I would prefer not to hear the bubble/s pop.
The sciatic nerve does not run/end anywhere close to the Ventro site, does it?
What about any "lesser" nerves there?
I guess I hit the correct spot. I know I hit a muscle somewhere between the trochanter end and the iliac crest. (I guess).
I did this with no numbing. I don't think the needle insertion is painful. And while being injected - not that painful. I start to feel a bit of a sting the latter part of the injection. And that is not that bad. I had feared the B-LA (from what I had read) was going to be extremely painful. As painful as a bone marrow biopsy. Thank goodness - nowhere near that kind of pain. I had that done in the doctors office with just Lidocaine.
To me the most painful part are the minutes after the injection has been given.
FWIW - if I can do this - weeny that I am - I think others could as well.
Now off to take my Doxy. I am sure I will feel Herxy tomorrow.
Thanks for all the help. Oh, I think the practice giving myself B12 injections over the years helped. I give those in my thigh.
Oh, and I had my Epipen ready and the house phone near by in case I needed to call 911. I also had had a friend that is a massage therapist show me the muscle. We circled the spot in pen. Of course the alcohol rub smeared that away.
Posted by Haley (Member # 22008) on :
I don't recommend doing these yourself. I think Sammy may have more experience than the average Lyme patient.
Definitely, not in the thigh.
Posted by Melanie Reber (Member # 3707) on :
I'm pleased to know that everything went well for you. I gave them to myself for a month or so, but then found that I got too dizzy and weak to do it properly.
Yes, the sciatic runs approx. right down the center of each cheek... so the closer to the upper, outer area you can get the better! Good luck!
Posted by Ellen101 (Member # 35432) on :
SusanK, Not sure about the air bubbles popping noise? I think I know what you mean, toward the end there is a slight noise??? I too still get a little bit of the heart pounding before hand. I also keep an epipen nearby.
Melanie, I think you are referring to the dorsogluteal site, she is doing the ventrogluteal site.
Posted by nonna05 (Member # 33557) on :
If your needle is 1 inch...You must be a skinny one??
Upper /outer area is the place for the least amount of accidents??
I just noticed Mine from yesterday is still a big lump...
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[lol]](graemlins/lol.gif)