The main thing is that ITT test does not distinguish between past and present immune response. It tells you weather you have been exposed at some time to Lyme. The cytokine test on the other hand (which they do after the ITT) helps detect ACTIVE immune response. If your cytokine test is positive then they do Western blot.
In your case I will assume that you was infected with Lyme in the past but now you are ok. I would recommend you ask your doctor for more clarification. I can give you only my personal opinion.
What was the reason you to get the Neuroscience test?
You always have to keep in mind that My Immune Response Test that Neuroscience offers is new and may be not as reliable as other labs. That is the reason why I am going to have another test done by IgeneX.
Hope I answered your question!
Posted by beths (Member # 18864) on :
My dr was trying to decide if I had Lyme & babs, or just Lyme, just babs.
Be nice if my Lyme was gone- *just* babs to go!
Can you have a positive ITT and not make cytokines?
Posted by meadow_1985 (Member # 38751) on :
Beths,
I am not knowledgeable enough to answer your question.
Did you talk with your doc?
What he says?
Posted by beths (Member # 18864) on :
He thinks Lyme is under control and I'm dealing with lingering babs. I heard (fingers crossed) its easier to get rid of babs once Lyme is gone......
Posted by TF (Member # 14183) on :
beths, the answer to your question is "Yes." You can have a positive ITT because you had lyme in the past.
You can have a negative cytokenes result because your body is not now making cytokenes (because there is no active infection).
This situation is pictured in the diagram at the far right on the website. The first diagram is the person who was never exposed to lyme, the second has an active lyme infection, and the third diagram is the person who had lyme in the past (ITT positive based on memory cells) but does not have lyme now (negative cytokenes).
Congratulations on getting rid of lyme disease!
And, I agree that it is easier to get rid of babs once lyme is gone.
Posted by beths (Member # 18864) on :
I wonder...because on another page it says
(shows a flow chart)
Positive ITT, negative cytokines-check WB If WB pos-it's positive for lyme Unfortunately, I didn't do the WB
Posted by TF (Member # 14183) on :
For those of us who have had lyme disease in the past, there is no sense in doing a Western Blot. It will remain positive for years.
A WB just indicates prior exposure. It cannot indicate active disease. It is a test to see if your body has made antibodies to lyme disease. Yours has since you had lyme before. These antibodies will remain in your blood stream for a long, long time--years.
I just had my lyme doc explain the MyLymeImmune ID test to me and he ordered it for me. He did not order a WB. I brought my WB with me and he laughed at it. And, we discussed the uselessness of a WB for a person like me--one who was treated for lyme in the past. See my post here:
I'm hoping I beat Lyme Posted by TF (Member # 14183) on :
beth, I just went to my lyme doctor a week ago and had the MyLymeImmune ID test and discussed with the lyme doctor the Western Blot for a person who had lyme in the past.
This all happened one week ago. Did you read my post about all this? I gave the link above.
So, I know what I am talking about.
What you have stated about IgG and IgM is what IDSA says. The lyme doctors know that things are not that cut and dried with lyme.
Read the description of the Western Blot test by a lyme doctor that is a sticky at the top of Medical Questions.
Any time you read a document, like the one you refer to above, you first have to find out if a lyme literate person has written it or an IDSA person or what.
The author is key.
You have a great lyme doctor and so do I, so they know what they are doing. They know how to interpret the test they gave us. My lyme doctor already told me how the test is done and what a positive for lyme will look like and what a negative result will look like. You have a negative result, per my lyme doctor. He doesn't think I have lyme back again either and neither do I.
Posted by jwall (Member # 22999) on :
What about if the first part is negative (I guess that was ITT) and the cytokines are "off the chart" positive. This was the case for my both my son and me. My Dr. was perplexed by those results.
Posted by beths (Member # 18864) on :
It seems there is a lot of uncertainty with the test, if ITT/and or the cytokines are either not positive or negative.
Perhaps our Dr's need to call!
Their previous flow chart contradicts their explanation.
Nothing is ever easy with lyme Posted by TF (Member # 14183) on :
jwall, from what I understand of the test, your results indicate that you were never exposed to lyme but that you have lots of inflammation going on for some reason.
Many types of illnesses cause the inflammation.
Posted by beths (Member # 18864) on :
jwall -did you ever have a positive lyme test?
It could be you just aren't making antibodies.
I'm upset I spent the $$$ on a test they doesn't tell us much!
Posted by jwall (Member # 22999) on :
I had a positive IGM Igenex test, but with only bands 31, 34, and 41 being positive, 39 and 83 as IND. My son has had a Labcorp positive test IGM 23 and 41 positive and at another time it was 39 and 41 positive. His Igenex IGM was negative recently, but the same bands showed up - IND 23 and 39 and positive 41...which my Dr. views as a positive test.
We had another test from Immunosciences in CA (I think that is the name) and my son was highly positive IGM for Lyme infection (to many different strains of borrelia), IGG negative. I was positive on the IGG portion for borrelia, but negative IGM. I also tested positive for babesia microti...but it was IGG positive...which my Dr. concluded is a long-standing chronic infection. I was borderline positive for bartonella.
So confusing!!!
Posted by jwall (Member # 22999) on :
I wanted to mention that my Dr. here in NC was going to run it by Dr. H who he learns everything from. I will see if he has come up with any answers at my next appt.
He felt that my Lyme bacterial load is significantly low (I have had 10 months of very high dose IV antibiotics, followed by another 1.5 years of oral antibiotics), but that the tiny amount of bacteria remaining is causing my immune system to continue to be overactive which is causing the extreme inflammation and high cytokine response.
It could be babesia remains a big problem for me. My LLMD in DC feels mycoplasma is my major issue at this point, but I haven't ever been tested for that. He says the same thing as my Dr. here...that LYme load is way down at this point.
Dr. here in NC feels babesia and mycoplasma remain an issue. Dr. in DC feels babesia does not remain an issue, but rather mycoplasma which is very hard to get rid of as well.
So TF, you could be right in that I'm dealing with a different infection altogether.
Posted by poppy (Member # 5355) on :
I am wondering if anyone really knows enough about the production of cytokines, etc in lyme disease, where they should be measured, when, and which ones. If you have cyst or L forms, will they cause immune stimulation? Seems like an area needing more research.
Posted by jwall (Member # 22999) on :
Well, as my Dr. in NC put it after seeing the results of all these tests, who really knows if these tests are even accurate (shrugging his shoulders)?!
Not sure why we are spending $$ on them if they aren't accurate. My LLMD in DC (one of the experts) doesn't advocate spending money on these tests.
It was my LLMD here in NC that ran them (which I don't really mind if they give more answers). I found out I was IGG positive for babesia, so at some point, I've been exposed to it. That was helpful for me to learn.
Other than that, I can see why my LLMD in DC doesn't care for all these tests and views them as money wasted.
Posted by TF (Member # 14183) on :
Here is a quote from Burrascano regarding testing for babesia:
"SEROLOGY- Unlike Lyme, Babesia titers can reflect infection status. Thus, persistently positive titers or western blots suggest persistent infection." (page 23)
So, according to this, you should be able to be tested to see if you still have a high babs titer.
Posted by jwall (Member # 22999) on :
Thank you, but wouldn't IGG indicate past exposure or does it not matter for babesia -- IGG or IGM positive = active infection?
Posted by beths (Member # 18864) on :
jwall -tried to PM you, but your mailbox is full
Posted by jwall (Member # 22999) on :
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