Hi. Has anyone here ever had electroshock therapy for depression secondary to Lyme?
Thanks in advance for any responses.
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- Jess,
You may be told that this is just very minor shocks, much better than in years past. But, still, ANY shock to the brain can spell danger for someone with lyme (and, IMO, this is not a good technique for anyone, ever).
I know you are reaching for help but, please, please, please, do not go for shocks. They can make spirochete burrow more deeping into the body and your adrenal system can be clobbered from the stress hormones.
They also may inject a drug at the same time that messes with blood sugar. Another shock to your body in many ways.
Spirochetes HATE heat. And the hate VIBRATION. Either can make them borrow more deeply and also go into the cyst form.
There are so many better avenues to take. Really. FAR BETTER WAYS. If you can, look back to some of the suggestions posted for you before. Just click onto your name to see your posting history.
Do you still have a LLMD? Could you also find a LL ND (naturopathic doctor) who could best address your nutrition?
Are you able to eat yet? I know for a long time that was not possible. I strongly suspect that nutrition can be the key to a balanced mood but also a LL doctor can best address how to approach other causes. Likely, there are various ones.
There are other ways that are nurturing in nature. Really. -
Posted by jessicabooklover (Member # 39427) on :
Keebler, just asking cuz Dr is suggesting it. Thank you very much. I will try to seek another alternative.
I have tried 4 antidepressants though and they made me too ill with side effects to continue. So that is why Dr suggested electroshock.
Thanks so much.
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- I don't care if Santa Claus is suggesting it. There are other ways. So many better ways.
I assure that, unless this psychiatrist is ILADS educated, lyme literate and know all about nutrition, that he is not able to adequately advise anyone with lyme on this matter.
What does your LL doctor say?
Are you able to eat solid food now?
There are many other things you can do even if psychiatric drugs are not working. Just not likely with that particular doctor.
There are better doctors out there, but find one with the qualifications that you require. -
Posted by OtterJ (Member # 30701) on :
Keebler, I don't know the answer to this one, but I'll ask the question, does jessica have access to
a lyme literate psychologist/psychiatrist in her area? I agree, jessica, the shock therapy does not
sound like a good idea. Too bad your meds didn't work. I think some of the co-infections can prevent
treatment of psych disorders. I also agree with the naturopath consult. persevere and always ask for support.
Posted by lax mom (Member # 38743) on :
DON'T DO IT.
If you value having a brain, with some working memory, I wouldn't do it.
A research Psychiatrist at Vanderbilt told me once: unless you are on the highest dose of Effexor, combined with the highest dose of Wellbutrin, combined with the highest dose of something else and are suicidal...then yes, the benefits outweigh the risks.
I am soooo sensitive to meds. My Dr literally had to RX the liquid form of an anti-depressant for me to wean up 1ml at a time.
Maybe that's what you need. The teeniest of doses.
Also, things like a SAD light help.
Finally, if self harm in the form of cutting, etc (among other issues) is a problem, (I can't remember), then DBT can work wonders. It's Dialectical Behavioral Therapy...a form of therapy that's focused on Emotion Regulation, Distress Tolerance, Interpersonal Effectiveness and Mindfulness.
Although the books you will find mention it for Borderline Personality Disorder, it also helps people with Complex PTSD...which I have (C-PTSD).
Look up the work of Marsha Linehan about DBT.
I am currently looking into research about Complex PTSD by Courtrois and Ford, as well as Judith Herman.
I was amazed to find that with C-PTSD, there is a phenomenon called "Metabolic freeze"...which is exactly the same as the post-exertional malaise many of us experience. This is interesting because many of us have some form of trauma in our backgrounds.
Another good book is "The Borderline and the Buddha". Again, It's just a good book about a girl's journey through DBT therapy. Ignore the Borderline part (it gets a horrible rap in our society) and just focus on the therapy and coping mechanism part.
Posted by lax mom (Member # 38743) on :
P.S. The first 5 days of any new anti-depressant or any dose change, all you will feel are side effects. You won't feel the positive effects at first.
Posted by jessicabooklover (Member # 39427) on :
LAX mom, thanks. Yes, I am self-harming a lot.
Thanks for the suggestions. I so appreciate it.
Posted by lax mom (Member # 38743) on :
P.S. #2: My aunt had electroshock therapy and it took her a year to recover and become functional again.
On another note, if you still can't/won't eat and your life is at risk...then maybe it would help.
I would do a serious pros/cons list.
Posted by jessicabooklover (Member # 39427) on :
I don't eat or sleep and I cry all the time and cut every day.
I keep trying to stop it but I can't seem to.
Posted by lax mom (Member # 38743) on :
If you need to find an inpatient or intensive outpatient treatment center, I would find one that focuses on DBT.
Please call a center that's focused on DBT. The other forms of therapy are not gonna work with what you are dealing with.
If not, you should be inpatient as of this very moment. You could easily accidentally die when you only meant to diffuse the emotional pain by cutting.
Posted by jessicabooklover (Member # 39427) on :
Thanks. I wish I could be more articulate right now but I am too sad to type much. I appreciate it so much.
Posted by beaches (Member # 38251) on :
Jess, please get yourself to an inpatient facility ASAP. Everyone here has your best interest at heart.
Posted by jessicabooklover (Member # 39427) on :
I will tell the psych no electroshock. Thanks everyone.
Posted by Razzle (Member # 30398) on :
I agree with Beaches - you need to get help from those who can help you with this.
Posted by soccermama (Member # 35101) on :
Jessica, I have heard that magnetic therapy has worked for refractory depression. They do it at the clinic.
I am not good at cutting and pasting but there has been some studies done that it is effective like shock treatment.
Have someone in your family look it up. I also think you need a Lyme literate psychologist.
I know you don't believe in God but I do...I will pray that in God's love and mercy He will bring your suffering to a positive end.
Posted by pigwit (Member # 9059) on :
I think it is crazy that electroshock is used. It damages the brain and impairs memory. It is better to find something to look forward to, a reason to get up each day.
It does not mean we are crazy if lyme depresses our mood and we are not able to function independently. In my mind, thoughts of suicide are predictable with the pain and limitations of chronic Lyme disease. For me, after extensive antibiotics, I also had to have considerable mecury amalgam fillings and root canals removed to completely stop the feelings of hopelessness. My life is good now.
Jessicia, I would suggest you focus on your connections with other people (like you are doing on this forum). It is obvious you want to feel, to live. You are not alone.
Posted by dbpei (Member # 33574) on :
jess, I work in a psychiatric setting as an LICSW. I have seen ECT really help some people. If choosing ECT is the difference between suicide and living, I would opt for the ECT. I have seen amazing results with some people that meds could not help.
As far as safety with Lyme - I would strongly suggest you or your MD try to get in touch with Brian Fallon from Columbia University. He is more knowledgeable than any psychiatrist I know of with regards to Lyme and co-infections and all of the psychiatric problems that often go hand and hand with these diseases.
Until you have been able to get some information from him, I would not do anything. But please consider ECT if Dr. Fallon thinks it might help you. Please take good care. I am thinking of you...
Posted by MichaelTampa (Member # 24868) on :
I had very bad depression before my lyme treatment started. The SSRI I tried made me kind of bipolar. Really the only thing that helped the depression was lyme treatment, even when I just started on herbs before I could get an Rx, that helped a lot. Hopefully you can avoid something that is permanent damage to you. As dbpei said, whatever it takes, but really hope you can find a way to limit the depression via some lyme-related treatment. That will bring back the real you.
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- And, if you are unable to eat, please do whatever you can to get some nutrition in you. Our cells require nutrients. Our mood requires nutrients, too. -
Posted by jessicabooklover (Member # 39427) on :
Keebler, I was doing better with the eating for awhile and had put weight on. I have lost weight again the past 3 weeks.
I can physically eat, but I often throw it up. I think its a combo of the raw stomach from Lyme and stress. I've been eating one or two meals a day the past few weeks, but a lot of it comes back up.
The biggest issue is the cutting, I think. I just need to exert willpower and I can stop it. It's a pathetic problem to have and it's also a very First World Problem to have.
I need to get it together. It's my responsibility to do so. I'm super mad at myself for letting this happen. I am trying to fix it. That's why when psych suggested electroshock I decided to solicit opinions.
But people here are sick with much worse problems than I am. I really have no right to be doing this to myself. I need to fix it and quickly.
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
Please go to the hospital.
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- Yes, please go to the hospital.
The guilt and blame tendency is not helping. It's what we tend to do but it's important to shake that off. Taking responsibity for your next steps will take all your focus.
I also don't think it's possible to know all the reasons why but best to work that out with talk therapy, over time. For now, find safe harbor.
If your home were blown off the foundation by a tornado, would you assume it was your fault and that you had to fix it all by yourself.
You need professional guidance getting back on your foundation. The idea of your doctor contacting Dr. Fallon is excellent. Please do that. But, first, get to a safe place. -
Posted by jessicabooklover (Member # 39427) on :
Thank you.
Posted by dogmom2 (Member # 23822) on :
I am so hoping things get better for you soon. Please know there are people here(and elsewhere) who care about you.
Posted by jessicabooklover (Member # 39427) on :
Thank you very much.
Posted by sutherngrl (Member # 16270) on :
The psych stuff is not your fault. It is a chemical inbalance. It is a physical illness just like being a diabetic is. A diabetic's pancreas doesn't produce insulin appropriately and therefore they need insulin. Same for depression. You need something to re-adjust the chemicals. To keep them balanced.
Believe me I have been in a very deep depression. I didn't think I would ever see a normal life again, but I am getting there. I have come a very long way. So hang in there and go for help.
Will be thinking about you!
Posted by jessicabooklover (Member # 39427) on :
Thanks. I've had people tell me I have no right to complain because I am not as sick physically as others with this illness. They make a damn fair point in a lot of ways. I am not in a wheelchair and I have some financial means and I do have a lot of good people around me, so I feel guilty at being so depressed over being chronically ill and having other personal trauma that effects me.
I really do have no right to complain but I truly DO NOT want to be a mess like this. I am being as proactive as possible with the psych and my dr as well.
I want to get better. No one wants to be a mess like this.
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- Don't allow yourself to become the victim for those who say you are not as ill as others. They do not have all the facts so I'm not sure why you put any effort out to react to them. That's energy you can't afford to spend. Disengage.
I'm not sure who is telling you that you have no right to complain but I would sure reassess how they are to be my life. They may not realize but that can have the same effect as bullying. Do not fall victim to that. How not to? Understand that they just don't have all the facts.
If professional, drop them. Find someone who is LL. You are in CT, I would think there would be a nice network from support group members near you of professionals who are at least moderately LL -- speaking of pyschologists, etc. here as that seems the main matter at hand.
As for others in your life who are discounting your symptoms, consider dropping them (not a formal "divorce" just don't make any more dates - or create boundaries and bubbles (so to speak) where your time with them is very well outlined and leave it at that.
And, that said, there is a way to explain and express without complaining but many can't hear the difference. And, even if more expressing than complaining, all this can be a lot for many people to take in. Most just can't handle it. And I can understand to a certain degree.
Sill, it sounds like you do not have professionals or friends around you who are lyme literate. So find some who are. You deserve that, especially for your treatment modalities.
For family & friends, of course, the talk can't be all about lyme or health issues and they are not your therapits - still, if they have the basic facts, then you will be better able to manage your needs while engaging in conversation or activies, etc. -
Posted by jessicabooklover (Member # 39427) on :
Hi Keebler. I do have a LLMD and a therapist who is very helpful and kind.
We are discussing now what facility might be best for me...i.e. a place that deals with general psych issues or a place that deals w trauma.
I think the place that deals with trauma would be best, as being ill has been traumatic and so have other life circumstances.
Thank you so much for the thoughtful response.
Posted by MichaelTampa (Member # 24868) on :
quote:Originally posted by jessicabooklover: so I feel guilty at being so depressed over being chronically ill
Many do not understand this ... for some with lyme, the illness causes the depression, as simple as that. The infection causes headaches for some, fatigue for some, joint pain for some, and, for some, chemical changes that result in depression. It is as straightforward as that, it isn't caused by being disappointed about being chronically ill. If those thoughts/feelings occur, it is just fill-in that people create to make sense out of their emotions--it is not the cause of the emotions.
Posted by jessicabooklover (Member # 39427) on :
Thanks Michael. I had severe depression before Lyme, but the infection has def made it worse.
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- I would pick a place that had the best food. Really. Look at their nutrition, too, for that is a major ingredient to any successful protocol for brain health.
Some medical places have figured this out. Some have not.
Also see if any place has things like Yoga, Music Therapy, etc. Which surroundings are more healing? You need to be able to see a tree, at least.
It would be good to have a multi-faceted approach, not just drugs or even just drugs and talk (though talk is very important, too). -
Posted by jessicabooklover (Member # 39427) on :
There is an amazing place in New Canaan that they are trying to get me into. It has all the therapies that you described, Keebler. A really integrated approach.
Posted by lax mom (Member # 38743) on :
YAY!!!! Sounds great! Your healing is about to begin.
Posted by lax mom (Member # 38743) on :
quote:Originally posted by jessicabooklover: I think the place that deals with trauma would be best, as being ill has been traumatic and so have other life circumstances.
Amen to that. I have C-PTSD. I had worked through the past trauma, etc. However, dealing with my family's journey through Lyme treatment was enough to re-traumatize me.
I don't think many people realize that dealing with chronic illness in yourself, a loved one, or both, is very traumatic.
Posted by jessicabooklover (Member # 39427) on :
Thanks so much Lax mom. XOXO
Posted by Cass A (Member # 11134) on :
Dear Jessica,
As someone who worked with human rights violations by psychiatrists and psychiatric facilities for over 13 years, please find a place with quiet, nice spaces for walks, good food, music, and friendship.
Drugs or ECT are not the answers.
Neither is cutting yourself.
Lyme, like its closest relative, SYPHILIS, can cause many, many serious problems that psychiatry labels with impressive names (and that they then get paid for "treating").
Most facilities don't care about, look for, test for, or treat any underlying actual disease. You're ahead of the curve because you already have test results. Often, the door in leads to no door out, except to a morgue.
A residential facility may be what you need now, but really ask about their products----how many get out? In what condition? Do they need psychotropic drugs for the rest of their lives? Has the underlying actual disease been successfully tested for, found ant treated?
Best,
Cass A
Posted by Rumigirl (Member # 15091) on :
quote:Originally posted by jessicabooklover: Keebler, I was doing better with the eating for awhile and had put weight on. I have lost weight again the past 3 weeks.
I can physically eat, but I often throw it up. I think its a combo of the raw stomach from Lyme and stress. I've been eating one or two meals a day the past few weeks, but a lot of it comes back up.
The biggest issue is the cutting, I think. I just need to exert willpower and I can stop it. It's a pathetic problem to have and it's also a very First World Problem to have.
I need to get it together. It's my responsibility to do so. I'm super mad at myself for letting this happen. I am trying to fix it. That's why when psych suggested electroshock I decided to solicit opinions.
But people here are sick with much worse problems than I am. I really have no right to be doing this to myself. I need to fix it and quickly.
Yes, as everyone has said, go to the hospital!
Those words of blame are not your voice! They are from others, who have put this blame on your head, and it has become internalized. Yell back at those blasted voices (either internally, or in a safe place, where you can express your feelings)! ANd stay away from people who are blaming you in this way.
None of this "is your fault!" That's ridiculous. Would you say that to your child, if you had one in such circumstances? I think not.
Things like blame and cutting are often anger that is turned against oneself, instead of where it belongs---at those who make you feel this way. Not that it is always appropriate to express it to those people, sometimes it is, sometimes only in therapy.
Take care of YOU! And get all the support you need to do that.
Posted by jessicabooklover (Member # 39427) on :