Artemisinin is part of my protocol, along with samento, banderol, and amygdalin foods (and of course detox, chlorella)
I had gotten a product called Tribiotics with artemisinin and other active ingredients from pureformulas.com, which has a Calif Prop 65 warning that it contains lead.
Apparently products in Calif have to have warning labels according to Prop65 if they contain one of about 800 chemicals and
"For chemicals that are listed as causing cancer, the "no significant risk level” is defined as the level of exposure that would result in not more than one excess case of cancer in 100,000 individuals exposed to the chemical over a 70-year lifetime."
In other words, a person exposed to the chemical at the “no significant risk level” for 70 years would not have more than a “one in 100,000” chance of developing cancer as a result of that exposure.)
It may be minimal risk for using Tribiotics source of artemisinin, and likely is in one of the other natural ingredients. But I am safety-conscious and may choose another artemisinin product.
pureformulas.com has about a dozen artemisinin products, and some definitely do not have the warning for lead. But Tribiotics has a great combination....
By the way, artemisinin does have a caution. It is that if you take it for more than 30 days straight (and it is pulsed in this protocol), that you should have a doc test liver levels as it can cause liver dysfunction if used long-term.
However, it is over-the-counter, not prescription, so I personally feel ok about it as long as I follow the caution.
Also, re my protocol. I thought I had to follow up for at least 8 months to kill the Bb which were located living in host cells (like red and white blood cells) until the cells died a natural death and then the Bb spilled out & became active again.
But I found out that some of my protocol creates a CN molecule, that it is taken in by the host cells and that it doesn't hurt the cell, but hurts the Bb.
So with samento & banderol killing spirochetes and other forms, artemisinin killing blebs and clearing out the brain capillaries, amygdalin foods (like apple seeds) killing some Bb too, and the host cells' Bb also getting targeted, perhaps most everything will be killed in a few months.
I plan to follow up with amygdalin foods and occasional artemisinin anyway, for safety.
My protocol is non-prescription, and although it may work more slowly than minocycline/tindamax and doxy (and amygdalin foods) that TBrown and others are trying, I hope it will work as well.
I have some research links if anyone is interested and PM me if you care for the dosages.
I'm just starting the protocol. I'll give feedback later on. Perhaps TBrown and others on the prescription protocol, you can give us feedback on your tindamax/mino & doxy protocol here and we can compare.
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
Allergy Research Group has a good artemisinin.
Posted by susank (Member # 22150) on :
I am kinda lost in regards to the cycles and forms of Bb.
In the presence of a threat - Abx and/or herbs - the 'chetes scurry and morph into other forms.
What forms spin off more 'chetes?
How anxious are the cysts et al to get back in the bloodstream? - or back into spirochete form?
I would think a few days at least. But its possibly hours?
Where in our bodies do the spirochetes prefer to be? Maybe not the bloodstream after all....
But when they are "out" of the other forms - where are they?
Posted by Lymedin2010 (Member # 34322) on :
ALL THE FORMS are in the blood stream & more specifically in the cells. Perhaps due to the ABX & herbs I take, they don't always appear outside the cells & it takes a while for conditions to change & for them to come bursting out of the cells.
There was one person's blood that I have seen & they were on liquid Zithro & liquid Amoxi and they had a high concentration of free swimming spirochetes in their plasma (outside of cell).
At times the cells don't die, like the red blood cells & they can be seen squirming out of the cells.
Posted by susank (Member # 22150) on :
Thanks.
I need to revisit all of this.
Here is a link to Dr Sapi's research on Abx and cyst form - which I am sure everyone has read - but now the info is sinking in for me:
Doxy causes twice the number of cysts formed than spirochetes it kills. Those cysts then revert back to spirochetes. Even more of them?
Posted by Nancy L (Member # 42733) on :
Regarding Artemisinin treatment, I have done research today and there is an extreme caution regarding this:
DO NOT TAKE ARTEMISININ WITHIN (2 references: 20days, other 2 months) OF RADIATION THERAPY!
There are recommendations for pulsing therapy and the mg/weight and the dosing. Will add these things in the next couple of days. These are all from experts and research papers.
Artemisinin from my research seems like an excellent herbal for lyme, and has some help with babesia, also cancer-killing of some kinds, and anti-malarial.
The general rule is not over 30 days straight. Some days off even within the 30, dosing, when best to take it and how, I will add soon. And quote my sources.
I have ordered SuperArtimisinin from Allergy Partners through pureformulas.com. This is pretty high strength and some people may need lower strength of 100mg or less artimisinin.
The samento & banderol dosages and protocol are part of the Cowden protocol online and also Dr.R of WA has his protocol with them, which I will share and links to his material.
The more research I do, the more hopeful I am about this protocol
**edited name of LLMD**
[ 03-02-2014, 11:59 PM: Message edited by: Lymetoo ]
Posted by Nancy L (Member # 42733) on :
Susan, there is a 3 part video series on the Lyme organism by Dr. Alan MacDonald which answered all my questions about how Bb operates in its many forms, and is on Utube.
I am not very Utube savvy, but you could do a search probably with Alan MacDonald and Lyme. Each of the 3 videos is about 30 min, but it is amazing and the latest research.
He also has a number of other videos, so you will have to figure it out. Well worth the trouble.
Of all the research and videos I have seen, his 3-part videos on Lyme are by far the best and latest knowledge.
Posted by Nancy L (Member # 42733) on :
Thanks Lymetoo,
I meant Allergy Research Group, not Allergy Partners Posted by susank (Member # 22150) on :
Thanks.
Will try to watch. But watching/listening to Utube hurts my eyes and ears.
So many times over the years I have just given up treating Lyme and Co's.
I stayed on 50-100mg Doxy/day as Rx'd for dry eyes. And hopefully to put a dent in MycoPn and Cpn - and ward off? resp. infections.
In doing that I guess I have inadvertently been breeding Lyme spirochetes.
Posted by Robin123 (Member # 9197) on :
Susan, my understanding is that the bacteria like to hide. They don't like oxygen so they hide where there is less oxygen available - in the brain, in the eyes, in scar tissue, in tight muscles that lack good circulation.
That's why one protocol strategy is to hit them in all those places.
One of my most successful eye remedies has been drinking the anti-inflammatory mangosteen juice - for me, no more Lyme eye symptoms.
We can stretch out tight muscles. Work out scar tissue and trigger points if possible. Take magnesium to relax muscles more. Etc.
Posted by ukcarry (Member # 18147) on :
Yes, I have read that preferred places are those Robin listed, especially collagen-rich places such as the eyes; also at the bottom of the oesophagus, around the gall bladder area.....lots of people with Lyme end up minus a gallbladder.
Posted by DaveNJ (Member # 17362) on :
Susan,
thnaks for the heads up. i used Artemisinin from Hopkington Drug which anecdotally is supposed to be the best out there.
They reccomend 5 days on 2 off and after the third week you get a week break which supports what you are saying.
Dave
Posted by Nancy L (Member # 42733) on :
Robin,
What brand of mangosteen juice, and where can I find it?
With the samento and banderol started, my eyes are a bit better, but still sensitive.
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
I use Xango, Robin uses MangoXan, I think. I'm replying since she probably won't be here until this evening.
Posted by Nancy L (Member # 42733) on :
Here is the video and explanation ofthe dosage and timing for the samento and banderol in the protocol I am trying.
For the artemisinin dosage, DaveNJ in above post has the same timing and pulsing artemisinin.
The bottles have a warning about prolonged use over 30 days straight.
For how many mg or how many times a day for the artemisinin I take, please PM me.
Will give feedback.
DaveNJ - I have ordered artemisinin from Allergy Research Group but would like to check out your source, do you have a website?
And more importantly, how did the artemisinin work for you?
Posted by Nancy L (Member # 42733) on :
Whoops, forgot to give the samento/banderol video web page:
their version is lipsomal....do your research as they seem to come up often as the best around...did it get rid of it ...not yet but it was very effective in my progress.
Dave
Posted by Nancy L (Member # 42733) on :
Thanks Dave for that website.
I know Dr. S recommends that when you take Vit C, you should take at least 1/3 of it as Ascorbyl Palmitate, as it is fat-soluble (liposomal?) and can get to the Bb in cells/fat.
So this sounds good, liposomal artemisinin. Will check it out. May try it when this one is finished, or one type in morn, one at night.
Posted by Robin123 (Member # 9197) on :
The mangosteen brand I drink is called Mango-Xan - it has the least amount of sugar of all the blends. You can find it at healthfood stores and online, if you google for it.
For Lymetoo, Xango works the best. But it gives me a headache so I can't drink it. We're all different when it comes to what works - all we can do is try something and see if it's right for us.
Posted by Nancy L (Member # 42733) on :
Thanks Robin for that!
And thanks Dave,I checked the website , and I called because it isn't listed on the webpage, but they compound it there, a bit pricey, but if it is more effective because it is fat-soluble, would be worth it. Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
quote:Originally posted by Nancy L:
Does Xango mangosteen juice clear your eyes like Robin's brand?
- I know of many it has worked for. I didn't have any problems with my eyes. My eyesight actually IMPROVED though when I began taking it.
I have proof on paper! Posted by Nancy L (Member # 42733) on :
Thank you Lymetoo, will give feedback.
Posted by Nancy L (Member # 42733) on :
Feedback from my samento/banderol/artemisinin protocol:
I have been on the samento/banderol for a week now, and up to the 30drops 2xdaily with no strong effects that I can tell.
I started the artemisinin Wednesday and can feel some effects. Some shakiness (not extreme, but there), some head pressure (not to pain though).
My left hand neuropathy since starting the ART seems to getting a bit better in part of my hand.
The amygdalin foods did the best so far for brain fog.
One thing I found out about artemisinin is that it is supposed to help correct an acidic system back to more normal alkalinity.
I have been trying for months to do that by a diet to make it more alkaline (the Dr.S. anti-inflammation diet). Not following it exactly, but focusing on and trying to eat mostly those foods.
My acidity was still "very acidic" as of last week. I am going to test after giving the ART 5 days to work (now just 3).
Still optimistic here Posted by Nancy L (Member # 42733) on :
Day 4 on artemisinin. Started taking it with a flaxseed/primrose oil capsule and a lecithin capsule, according to some research I found.
The research on artemisinin is a bit long & posted on "new info chronic lyme & co-infections" thread, if you are interested. Explains how it works, cautions, etc. (From different sources)
I am feeling much better and calmer! Hope this lasts.
I am also taking samento & banderol, but they have given me NO effects I can tell, at 30drops ea, the max.
One weird thing I forgot to mention. The first time I took it, a little later I felt warm and then my scalp felt funny all over(not exactly itchy) and I rubbed it, massaged it all over, and after about 20 min, it went away, and has not returned.
Anyone have anything like that reaction? I have not seen anything in the research.
Posted by Nancy L (Member # 42733) on :
There is some new research on how the blebs turn into cysts within 48 hours with all the DNA in them, and then (unless threatened to stay as cysts probably) after 9 days, they open and new spirochetes come out.
This may affect any pulsing schedule, unless the artemisinin stays in the system longer than anything I have read.
Maybe 2 days off a week if necessary, but not consecutively....
Posted by Nancy L (Member # 42733) on :
This will be my last post on this thread, as there have been no questions lately.
I have been improving on artemisinin, but am only on the 6th day.
I have found out that artemisinin is mostly flushed out of the system fairly quickly, about 8 hrs or so, so probably tindamax for killing the blebs and other forms makes more sense (tho prescription necessary).
While tindamax stays in the system 48+ hours.
There are several things to keep in mind when considering dosage:
1. The majority of people take ART compounds two times a day times a day, on an empty stomach in the morning at least an hour before breakfast, and in the evening, at least 4 hours after eating.
2. Artemisinin is mostly fat soluble, meaning it is absorbed much better in the presence of fatty substances. Various high-fat food substances have been recommended such as ice cream, whole milk or yogurt.
Some physicians have recommended taking it with cod liver oil capsules, CLA (conjugated linoleic acid), or flaxseed oil.
One cancer patient reported good results using almond oil from Spectrum Naturals. He dissolved his artemisinin in the almond oil and took it with a glass of water.
He reported that his cancer markers went down when he switched to using that almond oil with his artemisinin.
One other point to consider about people using dairy products such as whole milk or ice cream is that they do require some digestive action in the body with enzymes, and this may slow down the absorption of the artemisinin compounds, although this has not been tested.
One factor in favor of whole milk products is that they contain some butric acid, which may increase artemisinin’s effectiveness. (See butyric acid link below.)
3. Lower dosages of artemisinin, which would be around 150 mg a day as a total dosage, have been taken for extended periods of time by many people. One person reported that he had taken it for over a year at that dosage.
4. Higher dosages in the range of 400 to 1000 mg, are suggested by many internet sites and a few physicians.
The problem with this approach is that the research has shown that within a very short time of use of high dosages, the body’s inherent feedback mechanism reduces the intestinal absorption of the artemisinin by up to 70%.
There is another very important consequence to consider about taking high dosages of artemisinin: the whole idea of taking ART compounds in the first place is to cause apoptosis to cancer cells, while leaving healthy cells alone;
the possibility exists that if excessive amounts of ART compounds are taken, there could be a spillover of artemisinin into healthy cells, with some resultant destruction to them.
This info appears the latest on effectiveness for dosages of ART, but some higer dosages are related only to cancer-killing by ART, not Bb
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