A true herx is typically a pronounced exacerbation of symptoms that occurs after the administration of antibiotics begins for a spirochetal infection, and it usually lasts 2-3 days. It cannot be caused by food or changes in your diet. "Herx" is not a synonym for "feel worse".
If you are feeling worse, you should keep notes on the details of what you're experiencing and discuss what's going on with your doctor. There are other reasons why someone might feel worse, ranging from adverse effects of medications to allergic/immunologic reactions to secondary infections & other medical conditions.
I hope you feel better soon.
S.
Posted by Maya12 (Member # 36392) on :
Well I have been tested extensively and not other conditions found.
I had also been taking ozone treatments, ceftin and probiotics
Posted by CherylSue (Member # 13077) on :
Ceftin is an excellent and powerful antibiotic. That in itself may cause the herxing. Keep with the meds.
Posted by Maya12 (Member # 36392) on :
I have also been taking liver detoxifiers
Posted by desertwind (Member # 25256) on :
Perhaps you are having a yeast die off if you have cleaned up your diet in regards to sugar and carbs. It has happened to me...
Posted by Maya12 (Member # 36392) on :
Really desert, so just changing your diet threw you into a herx? And yes I have cleaned it up quite a bit
Posted by gz (Member # 43818) on :
That's what I was thinking. It seems like yeast die off can be as miserable as herxing if done too quickly. When my spouse had bad initial die off reactions with yeast, chelated molybdenum helped much.
Maya, if you made any number of sudden changes at the same time, meds, treatment, diet, etc, it can be hard to know what is doing what until some of the symptoms abate. Everything might be contributing something to how bad you are feeling.
I hope it's not so bad that you are able to ride everything out and feel much better when you body gets all the initial die off cleared.
Posted by triathlongal (Member # 31684) on :
quote:Originally posted by Maya12: Really desert, so just changing your diet threw you into a herx? And yes I have cleaned it up quite a bit
Same thing happened to me. Diet alone stopped feeding yeast and I had die off.
Posted by Maya12 (Member # 36392) on :
This is very interesting. What sx did you guys have?
Posted by Maya12 (Member # 36392) on :
And how long did it last. I feel like death today
Posted by Maya12 (Member # 36392) on :
Felt crappy yesterday too and went to the hospital and all blood work was normal
Posted by Maya12 (Member # 36392) on :
How sick can the yeast die off make you feel?
Posted by Maya12 (Member # 36392) on :
Anyone?
Posted by desertwind (Member # 25256) on :
For me it can be as bad as a TBI herx. I find that a yeast herx can feel like a Babesia herx or parasite die off.
I feel very gooey sick sort of flu like. Headaches, head pressure, ear ringing, light sensitivity, twitching, numbness, major night sweats and some day time sweats along with chills, some joint pain and skin sensitivity. Fatigue and muscle weakness. Some dr/dp as well. Increase in floaters and flashing lights in my vision...and your typical gastro stuff. I'm probably missing a few sx but these are the more typical ones I get.
I am back on Diflucan and other hard core herbs for yeast and after being off of abx. for close to 6 months I am still struggling with it. Sometimes I cannot tell the difference between a yeast issue and TBI's. Thinking of going back on abx.'s soon so trying to clean up the yeast.
What sort of binders are you taking?
Posted by desertwind (Member # 25256) on :
Can last for weeks at a time and I typically have to pull back a bit to allow my body to catch up with the die off.
Today for yeast I took; Diflucan GSE Oil or Oragano Olive Leaf Extract and BW A-FNG
Doing a lot of binders as well and the IR Sauna which caused massive skin rash that looked Bart like. Only eating clean/raw food for the week.....Feeling pretty gross right now.
Posted by Maya12 (Member # 36392) on :
Hey desert does this cause you anxiety as well and do your Bp or heart rate go up?
I am not on any binders right now
Posted by Maya12 (Member # 36392) on :
Do you also get weak and have body pain desert?
Posted by desertwind (Member # 25256) on :
Not so much anxiety but getting adrenaline surges followed by sweats - like any little stimuli sets it off. My bp is low as well as my hr.
I do get mostly upper body weakness in my arms and Babesia type body pain - that also follows the adrenaline surge.
Again, I have had these sx w/ Lyme and co. so not sure what I am really dealing with but certainly get it with yeast as well. I am also dealing with another med related issue that could be causing this so makes everything confusing.
Can you tolerate Chlorella or Brown Seaweed Extract? How about BW Detox? Glut?
Posted by Maya12 (Member # 36392) on :
Can you actually detox too fast and feel very sick from it
And no I never test well for chlorella
Posted by desertwind (Member # 25256) on :
quote:Originally posted by Maya12: Can you actually detox too fast and feel very sick from it
And no I never test well for chlorella
I think so.....How well do you detox? How do you do with plain ol lemon water?
Posted by Maya12 (Member # 36392) on :
I feel way worse when I drink lemon water.
Posted by Maya12 (Member # 36392) on :
Thanks so much desert. Can anyone else tell me their years herx sx?
Posted by desertwind (Member # 25256) on :
quote:Originally posted by Maya12: Thanks so much desert. Can anyone else tell me their years herx sx?
Your welcome....
Wish I could help you more but not sure what else I can share. Sounds like you are super sensitive right now and hope that you are not overloading your system.
Posted by Maya12 (Member # 36392) on :
I do seem to be super sensitive right now and think I will back off everything for a bit. Even lemon water
Posted by Maya12 (Member # 36392) on :
Thanks for your help desert
Posted by Maya12 (Member # 36392) on :
Wow I am really getting the gi sx now.
Also have a rash on my chest, this must be a herx
Posted by Maya12 (Member # 36392) on :
I had forgotten how hard this was
Anyone else want to tell me their yeast die off sx? Lymetoo where are you?
Posted by Sonatina (Member # 45056) on :
Maya, Re. your experience with lemon juice, do you think you might be having negative reactions to acidic foods? Lemon juice is HIGHLY acidic (pH of 2, which is roughly the same as stomach acid).
Acidic foods/liquids bother many people. I'm not sure why. It could be that if there is irritated or inflammed tissue internally, the acid makes that worse and causes the immune system to respond. --much like if you poured lemon juice on a skinned knee.
Another possibility has to do with how the acid might be affecting the flora in the GI tract.
Anyway, it's something you could track for a bit and see whether there's a pattern. If so, avoiding acidic foods might give you at least some relief I would think/hope.
I don't know whether you are a coffee drinker. Some coffees can be quite acidic too, but not all -- depends on how it's brewed.
There's one called Chameleon that's lower in acid. They sell it at Whole Foods & other venues. (It's a liquid concentrate). It's also possible to add a spoonful of liquid chlorophyll into coffee, which seems to reduce its acidity as well. (but check with your doctor first re. coffee & chlorophyll)
Hope you feel better.
S.
Posted by Sonatina (Member # 45056) on :
Re. rash: that can sometimes indicate an allergic reaction, so be careful with that and let your doctor know.
Posted by Maya12 (Member # 36392) on :
Can a candida die off make you feel really messed in the head and confused and almost delerious?
Posted by Maya12 (Member # 36392) on :
Anyone else want to weigh in on sx of a yeast herx?
Posted by Catgirl (Member # 31149) on :
quote:Originally posted by Maya12: Well I have been tested extensively and not other conditions found.
Maya, read above that you have been tested extensively. If you mean by blood tests, you know that blood tests very often don't pick everything up, right?
I've never met anyone who just got lyme. Usually at least babs, and bart come with it. Don't rely on blood tests. I have many co infections and it took a few years for my docs to discover them.
Posted by geronimog (Member # 34875) on :
If I eat any carbs I'll herx within a day or so without any antimicrobials. It's as if there are lines drawn by my immune system vs borrelia: I can reclaim some of my territory with antimicrobials, but they gain ground with carb/sugar intake.
Reducing carb can decrease inflammation, this can enable the immune system to go deeper after the bugs... change the battle lines.
Posted by Brussels (Member # 13480) on :
Candida herxes for me: fatigue, confusion, heart beat irregularity, anxiety, insomnia, high blood pressure, extreme brain fog, GI gets blocked, liver pain, back pain (on the kidney), pains in joints, feeling extremely cold.
Two things help me fast out of that: chlorella or MSM. Omega 3 also help a bit.
I've been recently only fighting candida, and only trying different diets and supplements (KPU). Clearly, apple vinegar does kill.
Clearly eliminating all carbs and sugars in ONE DAY kills candida for sure. I suppose if you keep longer on a total carb - sugar free diet, you will see a massive die off. I already see symptoms disappearing from OME day to another.
Posted by Maya12 (Member # 36392) on :
Hey Brussels. Thanks for telling me this. I am also treating yeast on top of the ozone. I am actually using sanum homeopathics for the yeast. I take that daily.
Sounds like I am having a babs and yeast herx
Posted by Brussels (Member # 13480) on :
Ozone does both killing and cleaning.
Great you are using Sanum. What product are you on? I used the Candida parapsilosis for very long, then the Mucor racemosus, Mucor mucedo....
the time I was treating babesia, was my worst time ever. Never ever had I suffered so much from treating a pathogen. I felt like dying, wondering if I'd rather die from treatment or just let myself without treatment and die from infection......
After getting right binders, my life got better. But babesia treatment is hard, you can read here in lymenet, it's very known that people feel awful on babesia killers.
Posted by Maya12 (Member # 36392) on :
Hey Brussels, thanks so much for your post. I really hate babs.
And actually I am using the candida parapsilosis and the pleo Sanuvis and a few others I can't remember right now.
Posted by Maya12 (Member # 36392) on :
It is at least comforting to know that others have also had a lot of trouble treating babs.
Posted by Maya12 (Member # 36392) on :
Hey Brussels did you have spells where you felt like you were going to die and had heart palps, weakness, sob and head pressure.
I feel normal unless I have these spells and I have them on and off thru the day
Posted by Brussels (Member # 13480) on :
Hi Maya, I remember my head felt like exploding during babs treatment once. And the awful sweats, horrible, my whole bed looked like I poured at least a bucket on it.
Heart palps, I had it on and off, with or without babs treatment. Weakness was EXTREME during babs. I caught myself crying once and asked myself: why am I doing that, if I am not even sad?
Very strange behaviour... I think it had to do with personality change, like I was 'taken' by something else. Almost delusional.
After riamet, I changed from going to hell to feeling alive again. In 3 days, the change was profound. That is how I realized most of these crazy symptoms (mental, emotional, fog, sweats) were probably babesia.
My babesia got better after riamet, but it came back again after 2 weeks.
I think these 'spells' as you call, are either flaring, or herxes, or anything related to the reproduction cycle of some pathogens. Once I figured out how to clean my herxes (testing energetically any cleaning substance that I had in my hands), my life got much better.
But still, I always hated babesia. I got rid of it with many herbs, only to get bitten again and get it back some time later. I did again the same treatment, and of course, it didn't work!
So I had to keep trying, until it got dormant again.
Just hang on. Have you ever tried MSM (pure sulphur)? It helped me tons during babesia treatment.