There have been three extreme "events" where this has happened. All after the administration of a Beta Lactam antibiotic.
I have a remarkably visible display of the classic red streaks (raised and unraised), the round red papules, and itching/burning skin all over my body.
Happened when I went on 750 mg Ceftin 2x a day back in 2009.
Happened when I went on IV Invanz after a surgery in 2010.
Happened when I went on 875 mg amoxicillin 2x a day for 10 days for a sinus infection this past March.
I know that bartonella is susceptible to beta lactams but that they are not often used in the treatment of bartonella.
I realize that the high intracellular penetration of many other abx are why they are used as the drugs of choice to try and totally eradicate Bart from the body. However, I wonder if since I am getting these clear die offs with beta lactams if it would be worth it to cycle in high doses of them to kill the Bart pathogens which are vulnerable to these types of drugs.
Has anyone had a similar reaction like what I have described with Bart rashes and cell-wall killing drugs?
Have you incorporated beta lactams specifically for the treatment of Bart into your treatment protocol? Posted by S13 (Member # 42830) on :
Bartonella is not very susceptible to beta lactams. Im not sure where you read it?
Dont mistake a herx with a flare up. Sounds more like you are hitting something else, which then causes bartonella to flare.
Posted by Tighidden (Member # 45596) on :
The phrasing should have been different. Let me clarify. Bartonella has been shown to be very susceptible to beta lactams in vitro, however, they have not shown good clinical efficacy. It is postulated that this is because they have a low intracellular penetration compared to other abx.
Here are some links in regards to this.
You will have to copy and paste the first article into google but the other three you should be able to just click.
MICs of 28 antibiotic compounds for 14 Bartonella (formerly Rochalimaea) isolates. M Maurin, S Gasquet, C Ducco and D Raoult Antimicrob. Agents Chemother. 1995, 39(11):2387. DOI: 10.1128/AAC.39.11.2387. - cntrl + f search "beta"
S13, that is an interesting point about confusing flares with herxs. I'm not sure I fully understand it in this context though. You're saying a die off from another pathogen could cause my Bartonella rashes to flare? That makes sense to some degree but I do not think that is what is going on in this case. I get the rashes while on my current "Bart" regimen of Zith, HydoxyCh, and Mino and have been seeing a decrease in my symptoms overall.
Also, going back to my original thought. If they are so susceptible in vitro to beta-lactams, then perhaps, given the right circumstances, such as when they emerge from erythrocytes and are located extracellularly, having a class of beta-lactams on board might be beneficial . Especially considering the history of my reactions to them.
There may also be more extracellularly located pathogens at this early point in treatment.
Another thing is that these rashes are never present when not on antibiotics. If they are present they are extremely subdued and I never notice them.