So I have Babesia Microti [no Duncani antibiodies, thankfully, as I heard it's a harder strain to cure].
Also thankfully I am not symptomatic yet [though that might change with treatment].
Would taking drugs such as Mepron and Azithromycin be a faster cure than herbs such as Artemisinin and Cryptolepis?
LLMD wants me to try the herbs first since there is less liver toxicity risk, but what if I end up going months on the herbs without progress or being cured? I feel like I'll have wished I tried the drugs from the start.
What do you guys think? Thanks!
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- It's going to take many months, either way.
I would start with Artemisinin & Cryptolepis, both are excellent and the liver consideration is a huge factor, too.
The liver can be damaged just from lyme, babesia, the other various stealth infections that go along for the ride.
Aand many Rx and OTC can cause damage, too. Even with liver support, it's not always possible to avoid liver damage.
Do all you can to avoid possible further damage with measures that are still very direct and assertive yet are not going to fry your liver and further set you up with possible liver trouble for life.
Liver trouble brings huge fatigue, brain fog, pain. Do all you can to avoid that.
If the pharmaceutical Rx are required later on, that is something that you just cannot know now. But you may do very well without them. Or, a combination later on in the process.
Your LLMD sounds like he knows what he's doing, still, be sure to ask whatever questions of him you may have. When you hear his thoughts on this, it may help with your decision and understanding. -
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- Detail to consider, at every step along the way:
LIVER & KIDNEY SUPPORT & and several HERXHEIMER support links, too. -
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- If you have anemia (as is very common with Babesia) you may do very well with this herb, as SUPPORT (not direct action). It reversed anemia for me, totally.
STINGING NETTLE LEAF (not root) - Links set -
Posted by ram2390 (Member # 45461) on :
Thx Keebler. No I do not have Anemia or high liver enzymes. I really have no symptoms, just a positive FISH from Igenex and red spots.
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- Liver damage cannot be judged solely by liver enzymes tests.
There are no tests to show a lot of the kinds of damage that can happen, actually and some of it is quieter until it's progressed (such as with various kinds of hepatitis. In addition to infection, hepatitis can be often caused by some Rx and some OTC products).
So, always good to be very kind to the liver when there is a way to do that while also directly affecting infection.
Cryptolepis has been remarkable for some in whom the Rx choices for Babesia failed to work. I think it's very good way to begin, actually, along with Artemisinin.
You should know within a month or two if it's a good match for you. Some have felt better fairly soon with the addition of Cryptolepis.
[ 05-19-2015, 07:10 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
I got rid of mine (after off and on clindamycin/quinine for 2 yrs)
.... with zith and artemisinin .. was done in about 2 months
So .. I don't know if it would work that quickly without first knocking it down with the clindy/Q/
Posted by ram2390 (Member # 45461) on :
So how come Zith is used? I thought Babs was not a bacteria? How can Azithromycin attack the Babs??
Lymetoo...did you have the microti strain?
keebler...any basics for making sure the liver is okay besides lack of liver pain and high enzymes?
Posted by Judie (Member # 38323) on :
Did heavy duty herbs for 8 months and it didn't make a dent in babesia.
I felt better after my first dose of malarone. I took malarone and mepron together eventually.
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- ram, you ask: "any basics for making sure the liver is okay besides lack of liver pain and high enzymes?"
In the liver support thread are several good article / book links on liver health. -
Posted by ram2390 (Member # 45461) on :
thanks for the replies. My LLMD and I were worried about the liver damage component of Mepron.
Maybe a good compromise is to try Malarone and the herbs first? Is Malarone less liver toxic?
Posted by Rumigirl (Member # 15091) on :
Most people that I know of do fine on Mepron. I wouldn't rely on herbs alone. These infections are stronger than that. Herbs + the right meds is more like it IMO.
But each person has a different body and situation.
Posted by lymenotlite (Member # 33166) on :
I did five months on mepron, then a couple of more months - still had babesia. Don't know which species.
Right now I'm on the Buhner babesia protocol. It flattened me for three weeks but now, a couple of weeks later, I'm better. Too soon to say whether it's gone. It'll be another week of herbs. I absolutely hated mepron.
Posted by lymeboy (Member # 24769) on :
I took Mepron for a very long time, more than a year. I also took Malarone and Crypto. Also Zith and then Bactrim DS.
The ABX got me far but did not remove anything permanently.
Posted by CherylSue (Member # 13077) on :
Malarone worked better for me than artemisinin and cryptolepsis.
Posted by ram2390 (Member # 45461) on :
Reading some of these replies are scary...how come nobody gets cured? Do you guys have very late stage Lyme, in addition to other issues [endocrine, detox, etc]? Aren't there a finite number of these parasites to kill [Babs]??
I'm 25 yrs old with no major health issues, no major Lyme symptoms but I am Babs FISH positive [with no symptoms yet]. Maybe aggressive Mepron + herbal treatment is the best thing to do in my situation?
Posted by LisaK (Member # 41384) on :
abx helped mine, but the herbs really took it away for me.
I am no expert though.
and everyone is different in how they respond, unfortunately
Posted by lolo (Member # 43186) on :
ram2390 I have had lyme for 40 yrs and only started getting obvious symptoms from it in my 40's.
I still didn't know I had lyme until 3 yrs ago. Thats when I began treatment. At age 67!
You are so young and your body has not had time for the lyme &co. to the the kind of damage it can do when left untreated for years
If I were 25 now and found out I had lyme or any of the co infections, I would use herbs and ABX for 1-2 yrs. and then switch to herbs only for the long run.
Do you have any books on Lyme, like Buhners books.
I am not trying to scare you but keep in mind that once you begin treating one of the infections it sometimes happens that others show up.
I only tested positive initially for lyme and after 9 mos treating it with herbs only, Babesia showed up
A year after treating Babesia with herbals and ABX, Bartonella showed up.
Be thankful that you are young and it was found relatively early and educate yourself about well respected herbal treatments as well as which ABX have been found to be effective and in what combination.
You can find people that have gotten well on all sorts of different protocols…..there is no one way.
Some use ABX for years and don't get better, but switch to herbs and have a turnaround…….and you can also find people that were on herbs for years and finally begin an ABX protocol that finally helps
Its not something you can know from the get go….thats one of the most infuriating things about this illness, each persons body responds differently.
This is why its all over the map as far as what works and doesn't work.
Posted by lymeboy (Member # 24769) on :
I've gone the non-abx route after 3+ years of abx.
Abx got me very far and past the lowest point of the disease. The herxes were tremendous.
Salt-C, A-bart, strict diet, yoga, among other things are really helping me greatly.
I also did a very long parasite cleanse afte the abx were out of my system. Now I am concentrating on a healthier gut and maintaining the diesease while I work up my immune system.
There is definitely hope. Some people respond quickly, depending on length of infection.
Starting with herbs is not a bad plan at all. You can always move to abx if you think your body can handle the herxing. You need to be prepared for that.
Also, diet and exercise play an important part.
It gets frustrating but I've come pretty far with more to go still. It seems that we also may get a bigger and better voice as far as obtaining good effective treatment in the years to come. Lyme is getting some attention. But we need to keep pushing for better coverage and Legislation for proper Lyme diagnosis and cheaper treatments.