very interesting info on glutamate and how it can casue issues if you have too much, or your genetics disallow your body to get rid of it (like mine does)
I have glutamate toxicity --my symptoms are nausea, bad coorodination, including how your brain tells your body/hand/etc to work, so typeing is very difficutl as is remembering the order of letters in words, etc.....
if yo spin or move suddenly you get dizzy, light flashes, estreeme head pain not like a normal headache and it is not helped by any advil or anything, sensativiy to smell, light, noise, etc.. and there is more, but I forget right now...
see-- very similar to lyme or something and may be confusing many with lasting sx of lyme that may actually be something else like this.. just saying MAYBE- not saying it is everyone, but it is a very common thing.
'abnormal concentrations of glutamate are associated with migraines (7, 8, 9), and hypersensitivity to glutamate is proposed in several other diseases, including Huntington’s Disease (10) and autism (11). Genes that predispose patients to glutamate sensitivity are being investigated.
"An imbalance in glutamate and GABA (another neurotransmitter that counters the effects of glutamate) is increasingly implicated in many conditions involving the brain. This imbalance likely disrupts the brain’s ability to efficiently process information, and gradually leads to lasting injury to the brain. "
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- Lisa,
Thanks for this excellent article. Very nice description of bound and free glutamate. So glad you bring that to our attention today, especially with holiday foods that we may not always consider - - all the more reason to read up on glutamate before dinner at Aunt Martha's or Uncle Sal's.
Not to broadcast, of course, but to quietly know which foods might not be rocket fuel for us. Don't want anyone flying in those skies besides Santa and the Reindeer.
I think really more at the base of the problem with glutamate reaction is not so much "auto immune" but that in those with infection damage to the nervous fibers . . . "auto immune" can be misdiagnosed or "mis-connected" when those looking at this don't understand what lyme can do to the myelin sheath.
When they don't understand, everything is then called "auto immune" or other diagnoses that are not the cause.
Important to know that for those with lyme it's common to have demyelination - damage to the myelin sheath (that protective layer around nerve fibers) that glutamate can be even more dangerous.
The article above is good in that it details a problem but the connection it makes in the cause stops short. More detail in articles below.
But even these authors do not include lyme. It's only because we know that lyme can cause the illnesses they look at, that the connection can be made.
We know neuro-toxicity is already a problem with lyme. To add to that, excess glutamate can send the symptoms of that neurotoxicity to the moon. -
[ 12-13-2015, 03:24 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- Some detail below as it's really important to understand protein's building blocks. Lyme patients' reactions to some of those can be quite different, though.
With the note that many cases of the diseases mentioned below can have lyme as the cause.
Caution: Aspartate; Glutamine; and Phenylalanine
Each of these can cause far too much nervous system and adrenal system stimulation for many who deal with lyme.
This information is especially for those with any degree of:
it is best to avoid these three particular amino acids (other than in normal doses from food or maybe in a balanced formula with other amino acids & other nutrients, but not above the average daily dose.
Even at that, some people need to avoid excess foods that contain one or both of those as they can be too stimulating for the brain when it's already overstimulated from neuro-toxicity issues.
with Reference to the Related Compound Glutamate by Subhuti Dharmananda, Ph.D.
[Just beyond half-way down, see the section:]
Excerpts:
. . . GLUTAMATE IN NEUROLOGICAL DISEASES . . .
. . . In some neurological diseases, it is found that glutamate levels in the central nervous system become unusually high at sites of pathology.
This can occur, for example, if the rate of degradation of glutamate is slowed by an impairment of the enzymes that are involved.
Also, glutamate is excreted by immune cells that take part in inflammatory processes; the result is high local concentrations at the neurons in progressive neurological diseases such as MS and ALS. . . .
. . . The excess glutamate at the neuron acts as a poison; at high enough levels, the nerves exposed to glutamate can be completely and permanently damaged, so that they are no longer capable of transmitting signals.
Thus, while glutamate is a major component of the body, and an essential part of the nervous system, high levels localized in the nerve cells can be quite toxic . . . .
. . . Laboratory research has revealed that in the progressive, debilitating disease ALS, one of the many processes involved in disease progression appears to be damage of nerve cells by accumulation of glutamate.
In relation to multiple sclerosis, changes in control of glutamate homeostasis in the central nervous system might contribute to demyelination of the white matter of the brain (19).
[poster's interjection: lyme also causes demyelination, what that is:
Based on preliminary animal studies, it has been suggested that glutamate dumped by immune cells can exacerbate the nerve damage (20). . . .
. . . The role of glutamate in neurological disorders has raised the question as to whether persons with such neurological diseases might have to be careful
not to get high levels of either glutamine or glutamate via their diet and/or by taking glutamine supplements. . . .
Food reactions can trigger epileptic seizures. The main culprits are the following foods that are rich in glutamate and aspartate, two very excitatory amino acids:
------ See list at link above -------
. . . and the entire article as it may not seem like it by the title as not all lyme patients experience seizures.
However, the content relates very much so to the neuro-excitatory problems seen so very often in lyme disease & heavy metal toxicity. -
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
Excitotoxins; MSG; Aspartame; & "Natural" Flavors (that are not likely natural at all).
These "natural flavors" are a glutamate in disguise. This is why many processed foods can cause reactions in many who have lyme, the neuro-excitatory-toxicity. -
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- One of the best "balancers" of the super excitatory actions of excess glutamate can be magnesium - at least in one regard with the overstimulation of some brain / body functions.
As to the myelin sheath support, repair, that is much more involved, though.
If you are eating out or at relatives / friends during this holiday season, try to get a clue beforehand of the choices so you can quietly manage. And, always be sure you have magnesium in your body, on board, as a basic precaution. -
[ 12-13-2015, 03:27 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
Posted by Robin123 (Member # 9197) on :
The Global Quest anti-cancer series had a bit about glutamate - said aspartame can be a serious supplier of it, and that it's in 6000 products, so you should probably be checking ingredient lists for anything you buy.
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
Be sure to stay away from any artificial sweeteners.
Posted by Marnie (Member # 773) on :
Works faster (few MINUTES) and longer than Xanax.
Posted by LisaK (Member # 41384) on :
I need to take a glutimate scavenger, but the one the genetic dr gives me gives me naicin flushes that are extremely painful and cause my blood pressure to spike, which is NOT good, so I am wondering if there is a reason this pharm grade pill I take needs to have the niacin in it for the glutamate scavenger to work? or is it the niacin that actually makes it work? I will ask dr, but I am very nervous. hope this will work out. it's like I can die from one or die from the other! both bad.
wondering if there is some overthecounter thing I can take that helps eliminate glutamate? but I guess I don't want to mess with this genetic thing. sigh
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- You need SOME glutamate.
Magnesium is the best "balancer" for glutamate. Gentle methods are best when attempting to balance nutrients. If something does not work well for you, there are other ways.
And avoiding taking glutamate in - other than in foods as it naturally occurs.
Keep your diet low in those things that have a lot - the articles above have great lists. It should balance with these measures. -
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
quote:Originally posted by Marnie:
50 mg of P5P (active B6) by Now should help. It also contains *B2*, Mg and Ca which work in synergy for mitochondrial (powerhouses) support.
B6 is needed to convert glutamate (accelerator) to GABA (brake) via 2 enzymes...GAD 65 and GAD 67.
- Think very carefully before adding any p5p or B6.
from my own personal experience... if I had taken glutamate it probably would have sent me to the hospital
and another one like that... gaba.... not everyone should take that either.
and I never would have known either of those is a no no for me unless i had genetic testing.
Posted by LisaK (Member # 41384) on :
when I first came on lymenet I was reading lots of people saying to take gaba.... or samE or something similar. I went out and bought a bottle of each and both made me sicker. wasted all that money. now I know why. I cannot ever take those things. my body makes too much of it already and also doesnt know how to convert and get rid of glutamate. it is what causes all my painful headaches (not migraines or swelling kind)- just the glutamate headaches. and ammonia headaches too-
that I have and I need stuff to clear that up too. I take a mixture of things to help with all of this and they are working , but its still in progress.... and really helps with my anxiety which glutamate can cause drastically. so can leaky gut too. I am trying to fix that now.
Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
I don't convert glutamate to glutamine, so my doctor had me supplement glutamine, which made me sick so now she has me taking glycine for that reason.
Posted by Marnie (Member # 773) on :
One also has to be able to CONVERT (genetically) B6 to its active form...just like those with MTHFR problems can't convert folic acid (B9) to its active form and are thus given the active form via Rx or OTC.
High levels of blood B6 might mean it is not being converted or...keep reading...
Normally excess B vitamins are eliminated via the kidneys within 2 hours.
Pyridoxine 5’-phosphate oxidase is dependent on flavin mononucleotide (FMN) as a cofactor which is produced from riboflavin (vitamin B2) i.e. in this biochemical pathway,
dietary vitamin B6 cannot be used without vitamin B2. Wikipedia
Which is WHY I recommend the Now (brand) of P5P that also contains B2 and Mg and Ca.
B2 is used to make mitochondrial enzymes called FAD and FMN.
Lithium is very protective for "Type A" personalities...glutamate-adrenaline "junkies" who are VERY SMART, VERY CREATIVE, VERY FUNNY, ETC. They need extra CoQ10 and for anxiety, nothing beats 200mg of Suntheanine (chewable). It is incredible.