I am looking at the lab report and trying to understand it. It list IGENEX IGM Result
18 **23 28 30 **31,34,39,41 45 58 66 **83-93
Out from the word result is says Negative. Just not sure if this says she is negative for lyme.
I am not fully understanding. Does this mean that the numbers listed are the Bands that are present?
IGENEX IGG Result list
18 **23-25 28 30 **31,34,39,41 45,58,66 **81-93
This is so confusing to me, and I know I don't need to fully understand, but the language along with these numbers is very confusing.
The Helicobacter pylori Ab number is 2.0
Parvovirus B19 AbIgG is 5.25
There is more stuff, but I just want to know if these numbers mean these are the bands that are present and she is positive for Lyme.
Sorry to ask so many questions. This test was done April 2015. No others have been ordered yet.
Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
There should be + s next to those numbers. Were there any?
Posted by TF (Member # 14183) on :
Gigi, next to each number should be a symbol, either a minus sign (-), a plus sign(s) (+), or IND which stands for "indeterminate" or weak posistive.
The numbers are the numbers of the bands. Numbers with asterisks next to them are the bands that are considered specific to lyme disease.
The Western Blot consists of 2 parts: IgG and IgM.
Igenex requires so many positives (+) next to certain bands before they will summarize the result as "positive." However, lyme specialists know that even one IND or + on a lyme-specific band means that the person likely has lyme.
So, look for the little minus signs next to the numbers, or the plus signs, or the abbreviation IND.
Put those signs next to each of the numbers. Then, we can help you understand Angie's results.
Igenex is saying the result was negative for the IgM. Do they also say negative for the IgG? Even if they do, as I said, even one + on a lyme-specific band is enough proof of lyme for a lyme specialist to give her a trial of lyme treatment.
Also, give us the "normal range" for the helicobacter and parvovirus tests. Then, the numbers she got will mean something. (Each lab can use their own normal range.)
Posted by AngieGigi (Member # 47429) on :
On the IGM. **31 IND **39 IND **41 + **83-93 IND
IGG
*39. IND **41 ++
Parvovirus. Reference range is <=0.89. Hers is 5.25
H pylori. Reference range<=0.8. Hers. 1.2
I see that these are not good numbers. Just trying to understand.
Posted by hopingandpraying (Member # 9256) on :
The way I remember it is "IgG" is a gone infection while "IgM" is a current infection.
Posted by TF (Member # 14183) on :
OK. She has enough positive and weak positives that a lyme doc will say she has lyme. Here is a quote from Burrascano:
"Western blots are reported by showing which bands are reactive. 41KD bands appear the earliest but can cross react with other spirochetes. The 18KD, 23-25KD (Osp C), 31KD (Osp A), 34KD (Osp B), 37KD, 39KD, 83KD and the 93KD bands are the species-specific ones, but appear later or may not appear at all. You should see at least the 41KD and one of the specific bands." (page 7)
Angi has weak positives on bands 31, 39, and 83-93 and she has strong positives on band 41. So, that is more than enough evidence of lyme disease.
A person can only get IND on those bands if their body has sensed lyme disease and made antibodies to the lyme bacteria.
In addition, she has parvovirus and H pylori since her scores there are higher than the normal range.
H pylori is treated with antibiotics given in combination. So, she will also be treating lyme when she treats that. H pylori gives horrible reflux. When my husband had it, he was up all night eating gas pills and said he felt like someone had their arm jammed down his throat.
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
TF is correct on all accounts. Be SURE to get her treated for the parvo soon. It's very serious.
Posted by TF (Member # 14183) on :
Parvovirus in the presence of lyme disease can cause a severe anemia. Lyme weakens the immune system like AIDS. See this webpage:
Such a severe anemia may be why Angie is so very weak right now.
Just be prepared that a regular doctor (not a lyme specialist) will say that Angie is negative for lyme, so the parvo is nothing.
A lyme specialist, on the other hand, will say that Angie has a weakened immune system from lyme and will treat the parvo as serious.
Posted by AngieGigi (Member # 47429) on :
Thank you for the explanation. We just have to get to a doc that will do the abx. How do we decide if IV is right or oral is ok?
Posted by TF (Member # 14183) on :
Gigi, lyme is an extremely complex disease. Just like you would not be deciding what cancer treatment to ask the doctor for, you also should not expect that you will be the ones deciding what lyme treatment Angie needs.
Leave it up to the expert who has seen thousands of lyme patients and treated thousands.
This is why it is so important to get to the very best lyme doctor you possibly can. Everything depends on the doctor and his expertise.
A doc that is not very knowledgeable will do you no good, just like Angie's first so-called lyme specialist.
You can read pages 20-21 of the Burrascano Guidelines to see what he says about which patients likely will need IV treatment.
For example, did Angie take steroids (immunosuppressive therapy) while she had lyme disease?
The doc will consider her symptoms, any history of taking steroids, and may do other tests to determine if IV is needed.
If you just can't afford IV, then the doc will treat you based on what you can afford.
You can always start out with good oral treatment and see how much she improves.
The doc is the key. So, I hope she is going to see someone very, very good. Once she is put on meds, you can ask us about the meds and dosages and we can tell you if the treatment sounds good or not.
Posted by AngieGigi (Member # 47429) on :
TF. Thank you so much. I just want her to feel better. We will see Dr D in a couple of weeks. The next closest Dr in OH
I won't quit till be are bankrupt or she is better. I hear that gluten free is important so I made 8 GF freezer meals today. I just have to be aggressive and think for her.
Open to any suggestions. She needs easy nutritional things to eat during the day when she is home alone. My son comes home and fixes dinner but she needs easy stuff during the day.
Posted by TF (Member # 14183) on :
Here are the MUST DOs of Burrascano, from page 27:
"SUPPORTIVE THERAPY
CERTAIN ABSOLUTE RULES MUST BE FOLLOWED IF LYME SYMPTOMS ARE TO BE PERMANENTLY CLEARED:
1. Not allowed to get behind in sleep, or become overtired. 2. No caffeine or other stimulants that may affect depth or duration of sleep, or reduce or eliminate naps. 3. Absolutely no alcohol! 4. No smoking at all. 5. Aggressive exercises are required and should be initiated as soon as possible. 6. Diet must contain generous quantities of high quality protein and be high in fiber and low in fat and carbohydrates- no simple carbohydrates are allowed. Instead, use those with low glycemic index. 7. Certain key nutritional supplements should be added. 8. COMPLIANCE!"
Then, on page 28, he tells you the supplements a lyme patient should take. Further down, there are supplements for particular symptoms. I suggest you look at this list and discuss with Angie and get a few of these.
The more she and you study Burrascano, the more you will understand what the doctor is talking about, understand his proposed treatment plan, and be able to decide if his treatment lines up with Burrascano.
There is no substitute for being educated about this complex disease. It allows you to evaluate the doctor's knowledge and know if/when you should move on.
So, if you have it in you, read and re-read this document, piece by piece. Start with the supplements. That and changing diet alone can cause a 40% improvement according to the doc who cured me.
Posted by AngieGigi (Member # 47429) on :
Does. Anyone know if Dr D follows this protocol?
Posted by TF (Member # 14183) on :
People won't see your question here, under the heading of Western Blot Interpretation.
I suggest you ask whomever recommended him to you, or the Ohio lyme support groups (see left side of the page, Support Groups), or perhaps Ann-OH since she helps so many to find doctors in Ohio.
You can private message her.
I always recommend that a person find out the lyme doc's protocol BEFORE they make an appointment with them. Some docs use just herbs, some give very low doses of antibiotics. some give one antibiotic at a time, etc. In my opinion, all such approaches will fail because lyme is so virulent.
And, because lyme compromises the immune system, the lyme specialist must know how to have the patient strengthen the immune system. Burrascano says it is done by a certain type of exercise.
If you don't strengthen the immune system, he says that you will relapse when you stop treatment.
So, it pays to know how your lyme is going to be treated before you spend the big bucks.