18 + **23-25 IND 28 - 30 - **31 IND **34 IND **39 - **41 + 45 - 58 - 66 - **83-93 -
Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
What did the IgG results say?
Posted by Robin123 (Member # 9197) on :
Many think that having even one Lyme-positive band show up is enough. I see band #18 here.
IND can be a light positive. If so, those other IND ones are Lyme bands.
If you need a doctor referral, you can ask for referrals in the Seeking A Doctor section. Put the state or area you're looking for in the heading.
Posted by bergy (Member # 47606) on :
Igg was all negative with the exception of 41 was IND
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
With symptoms, this would be something to explore. You probably have it, but your body is unable to register a good response due to a low immune system.
That, along with IND on more bands, says a lot.
Posted by Catgirl (Member # 31149) on :
It looks like you have it. Do you have an LLMD and what symptoms do you have?
Posted by bergy (Member # 47606) on :
I have kinetic tremor, gait issues, lack of arm swing ,shoulder
ache, hip ache and pops, muscle cramps, spasms, tingling,
Rigid hand, balance issues, weakness, fatigue, back ache,
Restless legs, twitching,anxiety makes symptoms worse, etc..
Brain MRI normal, cervical spine MRI normal, hip MRI
Suggests tendonosis, normal EEG, normal veinous and
Arterial Doppler, normal bmp b12 folic acid,
Initial neuro has suspicion of PD. I'm seeing another neuro
, he ordered MDL Lyme , coinfections, ebv tests... He thinks
too young for PD and is trying to figure out the cause.
Posted by bergy (Member # 47606) on :
The neuro I'm seeing now is a ilads dr. He takes my insurance,
So I'm gonna see how it goes. I see him again in a cpl of
Weeks
Posted by Robin123 (Member # 9197) on :
PD is Parkinson's disease? If so, my doc says there's several causes of it, and Lyme is one of them.
A friend with Parkinson's recently got Lyme-tested, and she was positive, which must have been awfully confusing to the Parkinson's group she was part of, as in just what illness do they have?!
You certainly sound symptomatic! And band 18 is a Lyme-positive band. I'd say go with treatment and see how you do. Everyone responds differently so the trick is to see what you respond to.
Like I went on clindamycin 150mg around the clock when I found out, and my pain level went to zero in a week's time!! After 25 years of pain! Then I herxed in a month and dropped back from 150mg 3-4x/day to 150mg 2x/day.
And that's what worked for me. Everyone is completely differently in response to remedies.
Now I take turmeric daily, in capsules and that works to take down inflammation.
For the muscle spasms/cramping, it's good to find a magnesium supplement that you tolerate, since the bacteria has caused depletion of our magnesium.
The more you study up on what the bacteria do in us, the more you'll understand treatments.
Posted by susank (Member # 22150) on :
That's kinda strange on your IGG.
Maybe doctor needs to run an immunoglobulin panel.
Total/quantitative IGM, IGG and IGA and perhaps subclasses.
Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
Bands 31 and 34 can be important and you have IND. That's not negative, but not enough to be positive.
Since you have symptoms, I'd keep exploring the idea of it being Lyme. Maybe see how you react to treatment.
Posted by t9im (Member # 25489) on :
Hi bergy:
Band 41 is specific to a spirochete bacteria.
Bands 23-25 and 34 are Lyme specific.
Band 31 from Igenex needs an addition test to determine if it is from a borrelia infection (it was discovered band 31 can cross react so an additional step is required).
I'm not sure on 18.
In my opinion at the least you are showing exposure to a borrelia infection and I'd assume Lyme.
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
Dr C says 18 is Lyme-specific.
Yes to getting more magnesium into your body! ASAP!
Posted by doshey (Member # 46853) on :
Bergy, my dad had Parkinson disease for 21 years. I can tell you u don't have it. I have Lyme and your symptoms sound more like mine .
How old are you? My dad did get Parkinson young. He was 40!
Posted by bergy (Member # 47606) on :
I am 37. Does Lyme still seem like a possibility even with the IgG bands all being negative except 41 (IND)?
Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
quote:Originally posted by bergy: I am 37. Does Lyme still seem like a possibility even with the IgG bands all being negative except 41 (IND)?
Yes. Doesn't matter if it's IgG or IgM. Lyme is different than other bacteria in this regard.
Posted by Robin123 (Member # 9197) on :
It doesn't matter whether IgM or IgG is stated as negative - what matters is if any Lyme-specific bands have shown up. #18 has shown up. The other INDs can be considered a light positive response and they are Lyme bands.
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
quote:Originally posted by bergy: I am 37. Does Lyme still seem like a possibility even with the IgG bands all being negative except 41 (IND)?
- Absolutely. Go read the link I posted above. It explains everything you need to know.
Posted by bergy (Member # 47606) on :
Thanks everyone. Hopefully the MDL tests will help to confirm things. More importantly, I hope my neuro will treat me based on the findings.
Posted by fvertk (Member # 48089) on :
Out of curiousity, how long does it take to get IGeneX test results?
Posted by bergy (Member # 47606) on :
Mine took about 3weeks. I got blood drawn at the hospital, which was convenient because they let me add it to their outgoing fedex.
Posted by Catgirl (Member # 31149) on :
Bergy, just so you are aware, the best lyme docs don't take insurance (because insurance companies limit how docs can properly treat a patient, so the patient actually gets inadequate treatment).
Posted by bergy (Member # 47606) on :
Does anyone know why igenex does not consider band 18 Lyme specific?
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
And be aware that MDL does not test for all possible Lyme bands .. unless that has changed in recent years.
In the link above, Dr C states that you can do a 3-4 wk challenge with doxy, then go off for 10 days and test again. In many cases, this will make more bands show up, or more positives come to light.
Posted by bergy (Member # 47606) on :
The challenge seems like a good idea. I chose to do the MDL tests simply because it was covered by my insurance. Also, I didn't test for coinfections with igenex. Are coinfections difficult to to detect? Does MDL do a decent job at detecting coinfections?
Posted by Robin123 (Member # 9197) on :
Bergy, it's the number of particular bands IGeneX is looking for - there's specific rules for calling a test positive.
Which confuses everyone, because frankly, having even one Lyme-specific band is enough.
Posted by bergy (Member # 47606) on :
I mean 18 is not marked with a asterisk, but many believe it to be Lyme specific
Posted by ohioperson22 (Member # 47837) on :
quote:Originally posted by bergy: Are coinfections difficult to to detect?
Apparently, some coinfections reside inside cells (such as mycoplamsa, bartonella), which both mitigates the ongoing production of antibodies against their surface proteins, as well as evades detection with a blood PCR test.
A further problem is that there are many subspecies and strains of these bacteria, and sometimes some of them may not react with an antibody test (or even PCR) for a specific species/strain.
Then, for babesia (a protozaon) there are also a lot of strains, so antibody testing may not always pick it up. Babesia microti is traditionally thought to be prevalent in the northeastern USA, while babesia duncani is more prevalent on the west coast. HOWEVER, both strains have been found on both coasts.
There is a babesia PCR test, some feel it is good some feel it is the worst of the babesia tests.
There is also a flourescence in situ hybridization, which has an RNA probe attached to flourescent dye which illuminated any babesia organsims present in a blood sample.
Further complicating things is that the babesia organims apparently have a life cycle, so in some stages there may not be full-formed protozoans in blood cells, so even then the FISH test (as well as geimsa stains) may be negative. Even the LabCorp geimsa stain says multiple samples need to be done in the "fever cycle" to see any protozoans, if they are going to be seen.
Posted by TF (Member # 14183) on :
Burrascano considers band 18 specific to lyme. See this quote:
"Western blots are reported by showing which bands are reactive. 41KD bands appear the earliest but can cross react with other spirochetes. The 18KD, 23-25KD (Osp C), 31KD (Osp A), 34KD (Osp B), 37KD, 39KD, 83KD and the 93KD bands are the species-specific ones, but appear later or may not appear at all. You should see at least the 41KD and one of the specific bands." (page 7)
You have 18 and 41 positive, plus some weak positives on other lyme-specific bands.
Posted by TF (Member # 14183) on :
Coinfections ARE difficult to detect. Read Burrascano on the subject, pages 22-27.
Most good lyme doctors will assume that if the patient has been sick with lyme for at least a year, he/she also has babesiosis and bartonella. They are known as "the big 3."
Everyone in Maryland with lyme also has the other 2. Of all the folks I have known in Md. with lyme, only one person claimed not to have babs. They all had bart.
So, study the symptoms and see if you can figure out what other infections you have. I really had no symptoms of babs and bart, but Igenex found both in my blood. My expert lyme doc ordered at least 2 different types of tests from Igenex for each coinfection. One test would be negative and the other positive. So, that shows you that you really need to do a few different tests to hope to get any positives on coinfections.
The testing can easily cost over $600 with Igenex, so that is why if the doc can determine that you have symptoms of any of these, they often will just treat you based on that.