I know I brought this up before but I'm not sure if I'm supposed to let it run and take me down or if I'm supposed to try to get rid of it with something like an NSAID.
People always say that fever is the way the body gets rid of pathogens but this thing is daily and debilitating. I can feel it coming on, then I start to tremble and the thermometer starts rising, and by 5 or 6 or so I'm supersick.
Then it calms down around ten and by midnight it's all over, every day. I don't think it's a "healing crisis", I think I'm just sick.
Posted by me (Member # 45475) on :
Do you have babesiosis?
Posted by Jordana (Member # 45305) on :
I really don't think so. I've had three antibody titers, an Igenex FISH, PCR and thin blood smears all negative, over a year's time. Dr R Wash said he didn't think I did.
I mean I still could have it but it sure is being pretty stealthy if I do.
I have Lyme and Ehrlichia, and now I'm thinking maybe RMSF.
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- What temperature are you talking about?
A mid to late afternoon elevated temperature around 100 degrees has been listed on symptoms of lyme and I experienced that first hand -- for years and years until I was able to get the infections somewhat under control.
Of course, it could also be due to other TBD those with lyme had as well and babesia is always something to consider.
Hormones, too. They can cycle on and off in a clock like fashion and especially if a woman (or maybe a man, too) is in their late 30's or beyond. Lyme can cause the body hormone systems to "age" fast, so to speak. I think it just wears out the whole system.
Adrenal dysfunction could also be connected as that's the time of day many with lyme feel hit by a bus. -
Posted by lookup (Member # 44574) on :
At least your body is strong enough to throw a fever. It's when the body gives up fighting and there isn't any fever -- that is a poorer state of health.
I let fevers run unless one's nervous system starts to go hypersensitive which shows up as twitchiness and/or jumpy with noises. Then I start in with sponge baths.
Posted by Jordana (Member # 45305) on :
Yep around 100 is the peak. Burrascano talks about it I think -- I know fevers are also connected to Babesia but it seems like Lyme and Ehrlichia are quite enough to do it.
If I feel not just feverish but trembling, brain foggy and fluish do I bring it down or leave it alone?
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- Not too concerned with 100 degrees as I ran that for years and years most afternoons / evenings. Brain fog and feeling "fluish" just go with lyme / TBD (and treatment) until they are better controlled further down the road.
The trembling, however, implies something is very wrong. Could be something you are doing is too much for your body to handle, or one of the infections, adrenal deficiency, low blood sugar, etc.
Are you resting the minute they symptoms start to come on? That might be a good idea, plan for a serious lie down in the dark quiet rest a half hour before you expect the rise in temperature and stay there for at least 45 minutes if you can.
Still, your LLMD is best to help with specific connections to this. They need to be alerted to this. -
Posted by Jordana (Member # 45305) on :
What I really think is happening is dieoff in my endothelial cells while these little bastard rickettsias try to reproduce.
The trembling thing Ive told lots and lots of doctors and I just get the blink and stare. Been tested for it all.
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- "Lots of doctors" is not who you need to tell. Your LLMD needs to know. A good LLMD should have some idea about what this means, specific to your case, your TBD load, your treatment, nutrients, your diet, your exposures, etc.
Something is wrong regarding this trembling. "Lots of doctors" do not have the training for this. A LLMD should.
If an aggressive rest period before this begins the next time . . . and give that daily routine at least a week to help it start to "take" - if that does not help
and if you can TEST YOUR BLOOD GLUCOSE at that time - BEFORE - it really takes hold and then again, if it takes hold again.
"Testing" out everything you take, maybe take a break from everything for a couple days or a full week - and then add back one by one. It could be something you are taking that causes the trembling.
If you can pinpoint that, not that you might necessary need to forget it forever, but that there may be something out of balance about it and some correction could be made.
Best to first talk to your LLMD yet you seem hesitant to do that. So, with at least the steps above as some basic footwork, if those don't help be sure to contact your LLMD. -
[ 09-18-2016, 06:28 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
Posted by TNT (Member # 42349) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jordana: Every day. Around now.
I know I brought this up before but I'm not sure if I'm supposed to let it run and take me down or if I'm supposed to try to get rid of it with something like an NSAID.
People always say that fever is the way the body gets rid of pathogens but this thing is daily and debilitating. I can feel it coming on, then I start to tremble and the thermometer starts rising, and by 5 or 6 or so I'm supersick.
Then it calms down around ten and by midnight it's all over, every day. I don't think it's a "healing crisis", I think I'm just sick.
Definitely a die-off (a healing crisis)!!!
Not Babesiosis, as their reproductive cycle is not daily. You are hitting a pathogen that has a daily life cycle, one of which I can think of off-hand... Bartonella (a Rickettsia).
Ibuprofen may not be the best thing (as it may blunt the immune response) unless your fever and general malaise gets too tough to bear.
Considering your lack of a typical response to treatment so far, I think you are on the right track. Hang in there!
Burrascano does mention a mid-afternoon fatigue and strongly recommends resting and napping even before it sets in.
Also, he does specifically mention early to mid-afternoon fevers of 99+ degrees---this in relation to Borrelia, though.
Maybe check over Burrascano's 2008 treatment guidelines again and see what stands out to you. He talks about the early to mid-afternoon fevers being lyme on page 26.
Another thing to consider is that you may be starting to lower your pathogen burden, in which case your immune system may be starting to come back on board, thus the fevers and such.
Posted by bluelyme (Member # 47170) on :
Is it worse or better with riffy?.what buhner herbs relieved it .?.maybe proto toxo?
Posted by lookup (Member # 44574) on :
"If I feel not just feverish but trembling, brain foggy and fluish"
Disclaimer: I am not a medical doctor so please seek proper medical care from your physician.
Ok, got that out of the way.
Do you feel chills with the shaking?
If so it could be rigors. "Chills is a feeling of coldness occurring during a high fever, but sometimes is also a common symptom which occurs alone in specific people. It occurs during fever due to the release of
cytokines and prostaglandins as part of the inflammatory response, which increases the set point for body temperature in the hypothalamus. The increased set point causes the body temperature to rise (pyrexia), but also makes the
patient feel cold or chills until the new set point is reached. Shivering also occurs along with chills because the patient's body produces heat during muscle contraction in a physiological attempt to increase body temperature to the new set point. When it does not accompany a high
fever, it is normally a light chill. Sometimes a chill of medium power and short duration may occur during a scare, especially in scares of fear, commonly interpreted like or confused by trembling.
Severe chills with violent shivering are called rigors."
In homeopathy, in the Repertory of Symptoms, there are 34 pages devoted to Fever. Pages and pages of fever symptoms and times of the day for recurring fevers and also if they are periodical like every other day or every 7 days, etc.
There are 90 remedies for fevers that start in the afternoon.
Largely, now days, that whole body of keen and helpful observation is not taught in medical school. Symptoms and healing can be washed away with aspirin or ibuprofen.
That you recover each day after your body does battle, I personally (for myself) would be hesitant to remove the body's intelligent attack by taking NSAID.
Foggy brain-- I know when parasites die one can get a brain fog because their carcasses emit ammonia that crosses the blood brain barrier.
L-ornithine, amino acid, can clean that up in about 30-60 minutes. It crosses the blood brain barrier.
I, myself, would run a test on myself to see if it cleared the brain fog. Hulda Clark suggests 5 L-ornithine capsules to do the job. One can look online and see how many mg. per capsule is in her product and then one has a figure one can use.
Posted by Jordana (Member # 45305) on :
Gonna answer everybody. Down for an hour maybe. In the bad patch.
Posted by Jordana (Member # 45305) on :
Okay!
That sucked!
So TNT that's absolutely what I think, I think it's the E. Chaffeensis and maybe some other Mfing little intracellular jerk. The reason I think this is like you said, I have a *daily* cycle and have from the beginning. At first I thought it was just Lyme but the more I learned about coinfections the more I realized it had to be something more.
Add to that...E Chaffeensis. Amblyomma Americanum, not Ixodes. Usually, and that fits with where I got bit. So probably NOT babesia, maybe not even Bart. Definitely Ehrli, RMSF, maybe Tularemia. Getting that coinfection can really help at least try to figure out what's trying to kill you.
That's why I listened to Dr R Wash and my LLMD finally and started mino/rif with no pulse.
So yes, blue - since Rifampin it's a totally different kind of Sick. Like sick as two dogs sick. No appetite, big fever, heat, shaking. Off my feed.
Keebler, taking a rest is a good idea and I will actually look at the clock and assess myself and say hookay, you're dunzo.
Lookup -- I haven't taken an NSAID yet for this and...well actually my stomach is really unhappy and I can barely swallow supplements. I *can* do it but it takes a couple hours to get it all in. By the time I think of it the fever is falling so maybe it's better to leave it alone if I can. I just hope I'm not hurting myself here.
Some of this has to be herxing. I sure didn't feel this bad before last week.
Posted by lookup (Member # 44574) on :
I'm sorry you are suffering but it sounds like you are sorting it out one way or another!
Posted by Jordana (Member # 45305) on :
Not sure about that lookup. I'm surviving it, so far.
Posted by TNT (Member # 42349) on :
quote:Originally posted by lookup: Foggy brain-- I know when parasites die one can get a brain fog because their carcasses emit ammonia that crosses the blood brain barrier.
L-ornithine, amino acid, can clean that up in about 30-60 minutes. It crosses the blood brain barrier.
I, myself, would run a test on myself to see if it cleared the brain fog. Hulda Clark suggests 5 L-ornithine capsules to do the job. One can look online and see how many mg. per capsule is in her product and then one has a figure one can use.
Pathogenic bacteria also produce ammonia.
This may not be as important for Jordana (since she doesn't seem to have a Babesia infection), but, I would use Yucca before using L-ornithine to get rid of ammonia, as ornithine feeds apicomplexans.
Posted by Jordana (Member # 45305) on :
I do have some Yucca and I'll add it to my cocktail.
I've been avoiding the amino acids except in food because I don't understand them well enough. I think they can have unintended consequences.
I could have a blood parasite, TNT, but it might be under control via bee venom.
Posted by Notti (Member # 43843) on :
I have the same problem. Daily attacks of a violent flu-like feeling. Except for the trembling, which is more a profound general weakness in my case.
In the beginning this was all very strong, but now it's less severe and although I still have to rest (sleep) at that time of the day, I can live with it. It's not as debilitating anymore.
This is after four years of intensive treatment though, so I can say it will get better, but it may take a long time.
If you find out what the cause is and how to treat it specifically, please let me know, as I'd love to know too.
Take care.
Posted by me (Member # 45475) on :
I have also have the same problem. Do y'all feel flu like and out of it when you get feverish? The only thing that helps is Tylenol, which I know isn't good, but that's how I get through work.
Posted by Jordana (Member # 45305) on :
Well, yes -- it could always also be "just Lyme."
I remember two years ago telling people I was so tired in the afternoon. Every day around 3 PM. Never checked my temperature back then but I bet it was heading up.
![[Frown]](frown.gif)
but it sounds like you are sorting it out one way or another!