Three years ago I went to my dentist for a regular cleaning. My jaw started hurting right after this cleaning. The dentist couldn't find anything wrong so gave me a week of augmentin. The jaw pain never went away. The dentist just said he didn't know.
A month later I started getting neuropathy in the feet. Three months after that, the neuropathy was full-blown.
I have been to 3 more dentists since then. Two couldn't find anything. One wanted to go in and start doing root canals even though he couldn't tell me which tooth needed the root canal. I wouldn't let him do it.
Since that time I found out I had Lyme and have treated for Lyme, Babs and bart. I still have jaw pain and neuropathy. How does one find a dentist/doctor that can find hidden jaw infections that don't show up on dental Xrays or a cone beam CT scan?
(breaking up the post for easier reading for many here)
[ 01-19-2017, 04:47 PM: Message edited by: Robin123 ]
Posted by lookup (Member # 44574) on :
I'm sorry to hear you've been suffering for so long.
I think I would try an experiment to see if I could differentiate some things.
Charcoal is great a drawing infection out. When I had jaw pain from dental work and a mysterious
infection no one could see, I got a piece of 4x4 gauze. I unlayered it (it comes in folded 3 layer
squares) I took one layer and put it on a plate I could wash after I was done.
I then got some charcoal powder and in a bowl I put enough to make a dry paste (a few drops of
water only because if you use more it turns into a slurry)I could roll into the shape of a cigarette and then I rolled the outside of that
with the thin gauze. I then put that charcoal cigarette along my gum line on the painful side. I kept it in there day and night (I put a towel
on my pillow as charcoal will stain and I took it out while eating of course). It really worked a miracle for the pain. So, I deduced it was
infection and/or toxic in that area. Years later I found that I had a cracked tooth root that did not show up on xray.
The homeopathic remedy Hypericum 30c is the first line of choice for dental neuropathy from injury to a nerve. I would try that to see if it would
help me. It's cheap- like 8 bucks. Hypericum is Arnica for the nerves.
My next choice would be to do some type of energy scanning. It has the possibility of picking up patterns of energetic signatures. Lyme is tricky
stuff and that's why I bought one. Ok, that was expensive but I had a gut full of trying to figure out what was priority bug in the case and also
doctors charging us up the wazuu and not making any progress. We were able to zig zag our way out of Lyme.
Diet is so important. Paleo for Autoimmune was probably the most important thing done. It totally took down inflammation that was feeding
the whole hellish nightmare of symptoms. Ballantine is the author.
Broken up for easier reading.
Posted by onebeed (Member # 46620) on :
Also, I wanted to add that one dentist thought I was grinding my teeth so got me a dental mouth guard. It didn't work and gave me a fibroma on my tongue that I had to have cut off - very painful. So I am back to using the $20 Oral B mouth guard I bought at Walmart. Jaw still hurts.
Posted by lookup (Member # 44574) on :
What does the hurting jaw feel like?
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
Google .. "DrNickDDS" // He is the BEST doctor for TMJ .. He can fix it.
Posted by tulips (Member # 44773) on :
Just a thought in case the jaw pain isn't part of Lyme. Could you have TMJ? Did you have dental work done where a dentist propped your jaw open too wide?
Posted by randibear (Member # 11290) on :
coconut oil and oil pulling might help
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- Along the way, while seeking medical advice & maybe some images to help with clarification for each person with TMJ can present with different factors.
Study: BRUXISM
It is very common for those with lyme - clenching of the teeth, grinding, etc. especially during sleep. The muscle tension can be major.
It is often a symptom of magnesium deficiency - and that goes with lyme, too.
Learn what you can for self-care / chewing - what NOT to eat / alignment / soft exercises and maybe also find a physical therapist who is trained in such specific support teachings / massage.
Check out YouTube for Bruxism Yoga or the sort - but be sure any post is by a certified therapist.
If you get a mouth guard for night, be sure it is hard acrylic - NOT gummy bear soft. I tore right though that kind, chewing it to bits in my sleep.
Feldenkrais TMJ Program -
Posted by randibear (Member # 11290) on :
I have gone through three splints. I actually grind holes in the plastic.
but they've gone up horribly in price and my insurance wouldn't pay for them.
Posted by Robin123 (Member # 9197) on :
I'd like to raise another possibility here - I went through similar experience, with dentists unable to find the source of pain using all their fancy diagnostic tools.
Then my chiropractor did some cranial work and stopped the pain in 15 minutes time! When bones in the head are misaligned, which can happen with us, nerves are affected that hit the face and mouth.
So what feels like it's in the dental area can actually be coming from impinged nerves due to misaligned facial/head bones.
This has happened to me three times now, and now I see the pattern, for me, at least - ie when unexplained dental pain starts, I see a cranial specialist for a session of facial/head bone work. It's not painful - it's very relaxing, actually.
I think craniosacral massage therapists with the expertise we need are trained via the Upledger method.
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
Dr Nick (see above) does NOT use splints. You'll be all fixed up once you leave his office.
See You Tube.
Posted by dbpei (Member # 33574) on :
I am finding that many have a dental connection to Lyme disease and coinfections. I have intermittent jaw and dental pain that causes me to be concerned about cavitations as well. I also have cranial neuropathies (facial tingling, sizzling, burning, squeezing, ...) that are cause for concern.
I know someone struggling with tick borne illness, who has been plagued with severe jaw pain that has limited her ability to open and close her mouth to eat normal foods for years.
Another component to this is that sometimes Lyme symptoms begin after having a lot of dental work done, especially root canals... I had a failed root canal followed by that tooth having to be extracted and then having a dental implant put in - all within a few years of when my Lyme symptoms began.
There is a facebook group that addresses dental cavitations and related problems. If you do a search for NICO, jaw bone infections, I think it will show up. There are some biological dentists who are members.
Posted by Catgirl (Member # 31149) on :
My jaw hurt after I had some work done too. I would go see a good chiro, one who has advanced training in the Activator method (not manual manipulation). I still get this done periodically and it feels great.
Fyi, most chiropractors have the tool, but few have advanced training. It makes all the difference when finding things wrong.
Before I was tested with Lyme or even suspicious that I had an infection, I had pain in the jaw as well as numbness in the whole right side.
I went to see a dentist, who took a X-ray. He started root canal operation on one tooth, the inside was smelling really bad, but otherwise the root canal operation seemed to start well.
However, it started hurting during weekend, and I went to emergency dental clinic where they took new X-rays. These X-rays supposedly showed that the whole tooth was completely rotten, as well as a tooth next to it. So these two teeth were completely removed.
So, the the first dentist did not see the same thing in X-rays as the second dentist. I believe this is because there were different thing in images, i.e. infection was moving around, and it was in my jaw in one X-ray but not in the other X-ray few days earlier.
Therefore, the dentist made a decision based on the understanding dentists have about these things, but I believe it would not have been necessary to remove the teeth I had been treated for the infection first (whether it is Lyme, bartonella or some other infection).
I read another dentist familiar with Lyme disease to comment that the Lyme disease should be treated before treating teeth. He did not explain why, but I suspect what I describe above is the reason.
Anyway, my jaw is still hurting from another place. I treat it with ant-ginger ointment along with the right side of my body. It helps with the inflammation.
Posted by onebeed (Member # 46620) on :
I suspect the problem is an infection as I have also had swollen lymph nodes behind the ears for a couple of months which has since gone down. At the time I didn't know what the large lumps behind my ears were. It does feel better on antibiotics but has never totally gone away.
I have no idea how to address this. Would Dr. Nick be able to find a hidden infection? Or would I need to go to an MD for this?
I had read that infections in the jaw are usually not seen on dental xrays.
Posted by lookup (Member # 44574) on :
We took our son to a biological dentist to have a Cavitat scan taken. They found he had some necrotic bone that needed to be cleaned out.
Posted by Catgirl (Member # 31149) on :
Jaw pain is also an indicator of something wrong on that side of the mouth. So is TMJ. My dentist said the infection can follow the root line and still be missed on xray. EAV (elecrodermal screening) or an ART practitioner may be able to help you diagnose it.
I had TMJ and ear issues on that side of my mouth, and was surprised to find out once the cavities I didn't know I had were cleaned out the TMJ went away.
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
quote:Originally posted by onebeed: [QB] I have no idea how to address this. Would Dr. Nick be able to find a hidden infection? Or would I need to go to an MD for this?
- I'm not sure, but I bet it's NOT an infection. I will see him on Monday and can ask him for you.
Posted by onebeed (Member # 46620) on :
Lymetoo - wouldn't swollen lymph nodes behind the ear indicate infection? They were pretty large and red - about an inch long on both sides. I think the severe neuropathy is connected to this somehow as it started about a month after the jaw pain started.
I am thinking infection because the pain gets better on antibiotics and comes raging back when I am off them. But has never totally gone away.
This is really concerning me because over three years, the neuropathy has become body-wide and so bad that it is disabling. I am going to ask my doctor for a wheelchair prescription next week as there are times when I have really needed one. (The neuropathy has progressed to my muscles and feels like down to the bone.)
The jaw pain started suddenly and was immediate. Right after a simple six month teeth cleaning. It is not tooth pain but jaw pain. I am thinking they didn't sterilize the tools properly or caused some bacteria to get into the jaw somehow.
I had a mouth guard made by a dentist and it did absolutely nothing for the pain.
Lookup - what did they have to do to remove necrotic bone? Was this handled by the dentist?
Posted by lookup (Member # 44574) on :
onebeed, they did oral surgery. Gave him a local anesthetic, cut the gum open and with a little stainless steel sterile scoop he scooped out the area.
The rotten bone scooped up real easy because it was so soft and smoldering. When he got to clean hard bone he irrigated the area clean and sewed it up.
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
Maybe the jaw pain is from having your mouth open like that for a long period of time and the lymph nodes are another issue.
Do you have bart? Any indication of Sjogren's?
PS .. Watch the video I posted. He does not use mouth guards.
Posted by WPinVA (Member # 33581) on :
I would go see a good biological dentist. One who does energy testing. Hopefully they can get to the bottom of it.
You could have a cavitation or a root canal gone bad.
Posted by dbpei (Member # 33574) on :
Onebeed, have you tried anything like TESLA violet wand or PEMF therapy? Both are supposed to be very good for healing bones and dental area. Also if there is an Ondamed practitioner in your area, you might want to give that a try.
I know none of these things explain the cause, but since ABX seem to help reduce your symptoms, perhaps these healing devices would make a difference for you.
Posted by onebeed (Member # 46620) on :
Two of the dentists I saw were biological dentists. They didn't do energy testing however. One of them said I had decay under a crown on one of my upper teeth which could be causing the lymph nodes in my lower jaw to hurt. I had the crown replaced but it didn't help.
I watched the TMJ video. I am not sure this is my problem but it is something to think about.
When I was on abx the pain was reduced to more of a feeling like when you have popcorn kernals stuck in your gums. It is back to hurting now.
I have gone to Ondamed treatment 4 times. No improvement that I can feel. They did say dental was my main issue, even before tick-borne diseases. I am not sure where to find TESLA violet wand or PEMF therapy but will look into that.
Lymetoo - I don't know for sure if I have Bart as I tested negative by Igenex. They only test for Bartonella Henselae so I could have some other strain or a BLO. I have the subcutaneous nodules on both arms and the neuropathy as symptoms. I took Rifampin and Zith for a while because I did test positive for Anaplasma. I am now taking Bartonella herbs.
Posted by onebeed (Member # 46620) on :
Also, I don't really have other symptoms of Sjogren's. My neurologist tested me for that I believe.
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
You're checking everything out. That is good.
Posted by hadlyme (Member # 6364) on :
It's a joint. Lyme loves our joints. I've had years of TMJ issues and I worked in the dental industry.
Throughout treatment it will get better, but you need to do everything for the joint to rest and be in alignment the right way.
It could be that your bite is tweaked in a way that it's putting more pressure on the joint. Not all night guards will help that.
There's a little disk that is like a boomerang that is on the joint. When this displaces or when there's lyme in our joints, it takes months for this to heal or go away.
Treat your jaw like a sprained ankle. No hard chewing. Lips together, teeth apart. Rest your chin on your chest when yawning.
IF your bite is off... your joint will not get better. Lyme loves the 'weak' areas of our bodies.
With treatment, and resting of your joint, in time.... it will get better.... sorry there isn't any quick fix with this joint.
If it started after you had your mouth open for a cleaning, it sounds like your jaw was tweaked out of alignment. This really could take months to heal and get that disk back on the condyl. There's no infection that would have gotten into your bone from cleaning your teeth. There is no mode of transportation into the bone.