Please accept my apologies if there are those who were offended by one of my previous posts in which I vented frustration at a comment which was made which seemed to me to be a cynical criticism of our financial ethics and integrity. But I have to tell you that in re-reading the thread after several days of consideration I feel just as strongly now as before, as my frustration stems from the fact that the staff of LymeNet is being portrayed unfairly.

The post in question inferred that we would earn an income of $164,000.00 over and above our required budget of $7,500. My response, while perhaps not "toned down" appropriately, was that we are not so lacking in ethics and integrity that we would actually accept any money from the LymeNet community that we did not absolutely need. If some miracle was to occur and we received $164,000 beyond our requirements, we just could not accept it in good conscience.

The same holds true for the rest of the items in the budget--we are not in the business of making money, and in fact we spend FAR MORE than the $7500 we are budgeting to keep this service running. LymeNet is not just a web site running on a $50 DSL modem in the closet. As Lou B. has said recently, any organization also has other overhead and expenses to stay afloat, and LymeNet keeps this to a minimum.

Several of us have spent a considerable amount of our own personal funds in order to maintain all aspects of the organization and of the Internet site. Several of us have spent so much of our personal time just to maintain status quo that we can't even account for the number of hours. For some of us that often includes several hours of driving time and lost vacation days when major physical maintenance is required.

Those of us in the LymeNet staff who make so many personal sacrifices, whether in time or money, don't ask for or receive any compensation from those who generously donate to LymeNet. That is why it makes my blood boil when there are so many comments made which imply irresponsible use of funds, and that is the reason for my recent post expressing frustration at this fact. We as members of the LymeNet staff consider our time and money a donation to a worthy cause just as you as members of the LymeNet community do.

So let me address some of the questions, comments, and criticisms in the hope that the details will help everyone better understand our thought processes and the reasons for our technical direction.

Why is LymeNet's Internet site so slow, and why is the search feature so unreliable?

Some of the users have expressed dissatisfaction at the slowness of the Search feature, the slowness of the connection in general, and other problems with the system, and you have every right to feel this way. We had indicated previously that these problems would be remedied, and that has not happened to date. It is important that you know the reasons for this.

Our systems are running on 7-year-old servers, and on a communication line which has not kept up with our growth. To set the record straight, we have about 6800 registered users and about 150,000 active posts at any given time. I won't go into specific traffic numbers here, but it has grown by a factor of 100 in the past few years, even though our Internet connection has remained the same speed.

Immediately following the previous fundraiser, we utilized some of those funds to purchase a new server and began configuring new forum software to accommodate our growth and add new features. This is in "staging" now and ready to go with a bit of migration work.

It has been several months since the last fundraiser, and since the LymeNet community was told improvements were on the way. What is the holdup?

The biggest stumbling block until very recently was the inability to obtain faster business-class Internet service in our area while staying within the bounds of what our budget would allow. We were given promises of service availability by various ISPs in the past, but when we gave them the green light to proceed they indicated it would not be available in the area where our servers will be hosted until September--a major blow to our schedule. I am happy to report that this has now been resolved, and we should soon be able to increase the speed of our connection considerably beyond what we originally expected, and we will also save money in the process.

Why pay so much for the Internet connection?

We have received several well-meaning suggestions and questions about why it costs so much to run LymeNet, and about why we host our own systems to begin with. First of all, we do not use "consumer-grade" DSL service as can be ordered for $40 from most local DSL providers. In order to run a service such as LymeNet, you need business-class Internet service with static IP addresses and the ability to control DNS zones. This comes at a premium, and requires long-term (i.e. not month-to-month) contracts. And it is not just a matter of plugging in a server to a "DSL modem"...in order to run a service such as LymeNet, you have to have a DSL gateway, a router, a firewall, network switches, intrusion detection/mitigation to protect against hack attempts and denial of service attacks, etc. It is not something a $59 LinkSys router connected to home DSL service can support--this equipment can run upwards of $5000. But this is an example of where we all use our connections and influence to obtain much of that equipment in the form of discounts or equipment donations from corporate entities, and often paying for them out of our own pockets.

"You shouldn't spend money you don't have."

One user commented that if we were running out of money from donations that we should simply "not spend money you don't have". With business-class Internet you are committed with a long-term (i.e. 1-year) contract, and you have to pay the ISP whether you have donations or not. Most recently, that involved dipping into our own wallets as a short-term fix. I don't think pulling the plug until we get the funds we need would be an appropriate action.

Why does LymeNet have to host their own servers?

With all that is required to host our own service, why not use one of the hundreds of hosting providers out there (i.e. WowBB et. al.)? Prior to purchasing the new server equipment we gave this idea considerable thought and analysis, both from a technical and from a cost perspective. I won't go into specific details on the numbers here, but with our current traffic volume and the amount of disk storage required to house our databases, as well as the ability to support some of the back-end applications (i.e. not only simple web pages and Perl/PHP applications as most low-end hosting providers support, but also Lotus Domino and other enterprise applications which few will support for just a few hundred dollars a month). Additionally, looking at long-term numbers (i.e. three to five years out), the combination of full ownership of the server equipment at the prices we were able to pay and the lower monthly ISP cost will result in less net spending than paying the kind of monthly hosting fees that would be required to support our systems. This is not speculation, but rather is based on real world numbers and quotes given by both low-end hosting providers like WowBB as well as the more appropriate mid-range (and even high-end) ASP's with whatever non-profit discount they were willing to offer.

"Everything could be run on hardware costing half what was paid."

A comment was made that we overpaid for the server we purchased for $1000. I challenge anyone to purchase a server with enough redundancy and data mirroring to run a 24x7 system for seven years without any long-term outages for less. As it is, $1000 is a bargain basement price for this kind of enterprise-class server compared to what most would pay for that capability. It is not a simple matter of putting a $500 home-grade desktop in a closet and expecting that it will last under these conditions. In my professional life, we pay a minimum of $3000-$5000 for this kind of reliability. The servers running LymeNet today cost almost $3000 when we purchased them seven years ago, and while they are somewhat slow they are still running after over 2500 hours of continuous service, even with all of the power outages, lightning strikes, and poor environmental conditions they have had to endure. To me, this speaks volumes about the kind of hardware we chose to employ, and about the high level of return on our investment.

Here is the bottom line.

In the short term we are forced to stick with the in-house solution that we have in place. A "low-end" hosting provider like WowBB just can't accommodate the kind of enterprise software our systems rely on currently, even with the most expensive package they advertise. Mid-range hosting providers which do meet the requirements do not fit within a reasonable price range currently. Therefore to make this work with today's demand and with today's budget, we are migrating things to a faster server on a faster Internet connection.

Long-term, we are working to simplify our systems and to consolidate the technology. We are keeping an open mind about the off-site hosting option, and may very well move to off-site hosting if and when it becomes a more cost-effective option.

To summarize...

Disclosure of this kind of information is a can of worms, but sometimes a necessary evil. There will always be those who disagree with our methodology, but I have learned from the past few days of posts that failure to provide at least a few simple details like this will lead to the kind of speculation and criticism we have seen recently. Don't get me wrong--we all appreciate your energy and desire to provide alternatives to help move us forward. It is important that you realize, however, that we have absolutely done our homework and have put a great deal of vigorous and detailed thought and consideration into all of the options available to us.

Our goal remains to provide a reliable, open, and feature-rich environment in which the LymeNet community can collaborate with each other, with the end result of helping those in need of our support.

And we *are* listening to you. While it may not always appear so, there is a lot going on the background to keep the service up and running, even in it's current somewhat rickety state. And there have been many accomplishments over the past few months which have moved us closer to the upgrades we have spoken about in the past. We're on the final stretch and simply ask for your confidence in the fact that we are doing all that is possible to make the most efficient use of our time and of your generous contributions to make this all possible.

Regards,

Thomas Brown
LymeNet administrator and founding member

lymenet has helped me survive these past few years.you and those with you,are truely doing a great service.

the ones you speak of ,have always had something to say about not being satisfied with the things you do.

for you to do what YOU do,i thank you.it must be hard to try to please everyone.

please,just do your best.i for one,am thankful you are here at all.please dont give up.

try to fix what you can.

one idea though, you might want to keep people updated as to what you are doing.say ,every month or so.

maybe,that way,people will know how thingsare going.

all the best to you and the people that help us.thankyou .please be well....gary d. norbut

------------------

tom , also be wary of those who discredit you.they might not be who they claim.

quote:

---

Originally posted by tbrown:
Fellow LymeNet members:

Please accept my apologies if there are those who were offended by one of my previous posts in which I vented frustration at a comment which was made which seemed to me to be a cynical criticism of our financial ethics and integrity. But I have to tell you that in re-reading the thread after several days of consideration I feel just as strongly now as before, as my frustration stems from the fact that the staff of LymeNet is being portrayed unfairly.

The post in question inferred that we would earn an income of $164,000.00 over and above our required budget of $7,500. My response, while perhaps not "toned down" appropriately, was that we are not so lacking in ethics and integrity that we would actually accept any money from the LymeNet community that we did not absolutely need. If some miracle was to occur and we received $164,000 beyond our requirements, we just could not accept it in good conscience.

The same holds true for the rest of the items in the budget--we are not in the business of making money, and in fact we spend FAR MORE than the $7500 we are budgeting to keep this service running. LymeNet is not just a web site running on a $50 DSL modem in the closet. As Lou B. has said recently, any organization also has other overhead and expenses to stay afloat, and LymeNet keeps this to a minimum.

Several of us have spent a considerable amount of our own personal funds in order to maintain all aspects of the organization and of the Internet site. Several of us have spent so much of our personal time just to maintain status quo that we can't even account for the number of hours. For some of us that often includes several hours of driving time and lost vacation days when major physical maintenance is required.

Those of us in the LymeNet staff who make so many personal sacrifices, whether in time or money, don't ask for or receive any compensation from those who generously donate to LymeNet. That is why it makes my blood boil when there are so many comments made which imply irresponsible use of funds, and that is the reason for my recent post expressing frustration at this fact. We as members of the LymeNet staff consider our time and money a donation to a worthy cause just as you as members of the LymeNet community do.

So let me address some of the questions, comments, and criticisms in the hope that the details will help everyone better understand our thought processes and the reasons for our technical direction.

Why is LymeNet's Internet site so slow, and why is the search feature so unreliable?

Some of the users have expressed dissatisfaction at the slowness of the Search feature, the slowness of the connection in general, and other problems with the system, and you have every right to feel this way. We had indicated previously that these problems would be remedied, and that has not happened to date. It is important that you know the reasons for this.

Our systems are running on 7-year-old servers, and on a communication line which has not kept up with our growth. To set the record straight, we have about 6800 registered users and about 150,000 active posts at any given time. I won't go into specific traffic numbers here, but it has grown by a factor of 100 in the past few years, even though our Internet connection has remained the same speed.

Immediately following the previous fundraiser, we utilized some of those funds to purchase a new server and began configuring new forum software to accommodate our growth and add new features. This is in "staging" now and ready to go with a bit of migration work.

It has been several months since the last fundraiser, and since the LymeNet community was told improvements were on the way. What is the holdup?

The biggest stumbling block until very recently was the inability to obtain faster business-class Internet service in our area while staying within the bounds of what our budget would allow. We were given promises of service availability by various ISPs in the past, but when we gave them the green light to proceed they indicated it would not be available in the area where our servers will be hosted until September--a major blow to our schedule. I am happy to report that this has now been resolved, and we should soon be able to increase the speed of our connection considerably beyond what we originally expected, and we will also save money in the process.

Why pay so much for the Internet connection?

We have received several well-meaning suggestions and questions about why it costs so much to run LymeNet, and about why we host our own systems to begin with. First of all, we do not use "consumer-grade" DSL service as can be ordered for $40 from most local DSL providers. In order to run a service such as LymeNet, you need business-class Internet service with static IP addresses and the ability to control DNS zones. This comes at a premium, and requires long-term (i.e. not month-to-month) contracts. And it is not just a matter of plugging in a server to a "DSL modem"...in order to run a service such as LymeNet, you have to have a DSL gateway, a router, a firewall, network switches, intrusion detection/mitigation to protect against hack attempts and denial of service attacks, etc. It is not something a $59 LinkSys router connected to home DSL service can support--this equipment can run upwards of $5000. But this is an example of where we all use our connections and influence to obtain much of that equipment in the form of discounts or equipment donations from corporate entities, and often paying for them out of our own pockets.

"You shouldn't spend money you don't have."

One user commented that if we were running out of money from donations that we should simply "not spend money you don't have". With business-class Internet you are committed with a long-term (i.e. 1-year) contract, and you have to pay the ISP whether you have donations or not. Most recently, that involved dipping into our own wallets as a short-term fix. I don't think pulling the plug until we get the funds we need would be an appropriate action.

Why does LymeNet have to host their own servers?

With all that is required to host our own service, why not use one of the hundreds of hosting providers out there (i.e. WowBB et. al.)? Prior to purchasing the new server equipment we gave this idea considerable thought and analysis, both from a technical and from a cost perspective. I won't go into specific details on the numbers here, but with our current traffic volume and the amount of disk storage required to house our databases, as well as the ability to support some of the back-end applications (i.e. not only simple web pages and Perl/PHP applications as most low-end hosting providers support, but also Lotus Domino and other enterprise applications which few will support for just a few hundred dollars a month). Additionally, looking at long-term numbers (i.e. three to five years out), the combination of full ownership of the server equipment at the prices we were able to pay and the lower monthly ISP cost will result in less net spending than paying the kind of monthly hosting fees that would be required to support our systems. This is not speculation, but rather is based on real world numbers and quotes given by both low-end hosting providers like WowBB as well as the more appropriate mid-range (and even high-end) ASP's with whatever non-profit discount they were willing to offer.

"Everything could be run on hardware costing half what was paid."

A comment was made that we overpaid for the server we purchased for $1000. I challenge anyone to purchase a server with enough redundancy and data mirroring to run a 24x7 system for seven years without any long-term outages for less. As it is, $1000 is a bargain basement price for this kind of enterprise-class server compared to what most would pay for that capability. It is not a simple matter of putting a $500 home-grade desktop in a closet and expecting that it will last under these conditions. In my professional life, we pay a minimum of $3000-$5000 for this kind of reliability. The servers running LymeNet today cost almost $3000 when we purchased them seven years ago, and while they are somewhat slow they are still running after over 2500 hours of continuous service, even with all of the power outages, lightning strikes, and poor environmental conditions they have had to endure. To me, this speaks volumes about the kind of hardware we chose to employ, and about the high level of return on our investment.

Here is the bottom line.

In the short term we are forced to stick with the in-house solution that we have in place. A "low-end" hosting provider like WowBB just can't accommodate the kind of enterprise software our systems rely on currently, even with the most expensive package they advertise. Mid-range hosting providers which do meet the requirements do not fit within a reasonable price range currently. Therefore to make this work with today's demand and with today's budget, we are migrating things to a faster server on a faster Internet connection.

Long-term, we are working to simplify our systems and to consolidate the technology. We are keeping an open mind about the off-site hosting option, and may very well move to off-site hosting if and when it becomes a more cost-effective option.

To summarize...

Disclosure of this kind of information is a can of worms, but sometimes a necessary evil. There will always be those who disagree with our methodology, but I have learned from the past few days of posts that failure to provide at least a few simple details like this will lead to the kind of speculation and criticism we have seen recently. Don't get me wrong--we all appreciate your energy and desire to provide alternatives to help move us forward. It is important that you realize, however, that we have absolutely done our homework and have put a great deal of vigorous and detailed thought and consideration into all of the options available to us.

Our goal remains to provide a reliable, open, and feature-rich environment in which the LymeNet community can collaborate with each other, with the end result of helping those in need of our support.

And we *are* listening to you. While it may not always appear so, there is a lot going on the background to keep the service up and running, even in it's current somewhat rickety state. And there have been many accomplishments over the past few months which have moved us closer to the upgrades we have spoken about in the past. We're on the final stretch and simply ask for your confidence in the fact that we are doing all that is possible to make the most efficient use of our time and of your generous contributions to make this all possible.

Regards,

Thomas Brown
LymeNet administrator and founding member

---

Please accept my apologies if there are those who were offended by one of my previous posts in which I vented frustration at a comment which was made which seemed to me to be a cynical criticism of our financial ethics and integrity. But I have to tell you that in re-reading the thread after several days of consideration I feel just as strongly now as before, as my frustration stems from the fact that the staff of LymeNet is being portrayed unfairly.

The post in question inferred that we would earn an income of $164,000.00 over and above our required budget of $7,500. My response, while perhaps not "toned down" appropriately, was that we are not so lacking in ethics and integrity that we would actually accept any money from the LymeNet community that we did not absolutely need. If some miracle was to occur and we received $164,000 beyond our requirements, we just could not accept it in good conscience.

I n\Never ever ever ever questioned integrity of any founding members.If thats whay you think Tom.

I was just pointing out if in fact lymenet started charging $$.$$ that would be the amounts made. Period.....

I do question some posters about troll like behavior.

I also am very glad you and your partners or other founding members began this group simply for the fact that people get help here and find a way to Dr's that treat lyme correctly.

Let it go.

I also have dedicated time here and I also am going to donate $25.00 to lyme fund drive.

And I do understand the coplexities of servers and running the lymenet to some degree I take care of them at work.

I am also very thankful Lymenet is here,but I didnt find my Dr here I found him through a coworker in another district.
I also have gathered LLMDs list over the years and respond to people searching for a LLMD in thge Dr section.

Now does that sound like someone who is trying to impune lymenets integrity? No

And Iam sorry if thats what you think good luck.

I understand and appreciate the work you, and the LymeNet team,
have done and thank you for taking the time to provide all the info in this post.

Thanks Tom

Keep up the good work and keep us posted.

Thanks for all you do.

quote:

---

Originally posted by tbrown:
Several of us have spent so much of our personal time just to maintain status quo that we can't even account for the number of hours.

---

With all due respect, Tom, I think this is a big part of the problem. You think YOU have spent a lot of hours???

The hours put in by LymeNet administrators such as you are commendable.

However, there wouldn't even BE a LymeNet if it weren't for people like TreePatrol. At a conservative 10 minutes a post, he's put in 50,900 minutes of advice to those in need. The same goes for many others who have now drifted away from this Board. You know who they are.

They are not asking anyone for pats on the back.

They are the lifeblood of this site and deserve everyone's respect for ALWAYS stepping up to the plate.

Maybe they even deserve a thank you sometimes from the administrators, like you.

Michelle

There would be no successful LymeNet family without our technical people as well as all of you who contribute so much time on the board helping others.

We have to work together.....it's the only way.

Bless you all,
Love,
Angela

I think if you get funding and function up in even the most optimal way --

you may well still only have a mere shell of what this community was.

I also feel encouraged for Lymenet that dearest Lou and Angela are back for the time being,
surely, that is a blessing in and of itself.

In honest concern, however, I do not think even they, without being here day in and day out to have SEEN what went wrong and how and why so many left or became much more 'conservative' in exchange,
the specific results of the damages, collateral damages, ect..
I think the actual mending of the community
will be a very big task indeed.

Also a reason for the community chip on the shoulder and questioning asking for our money..I don't think anyone thinks you guys are crooks, Tom --
the community was abandoned for some time by those that run this site, and like anyone abandoned..they are hurt and maybe a bit distrustful that is could happen again.
I know I am.

If the highly specific wounds inflicted are not known and addressed in an objective, Lyme communiry cognizant and effective way and not nurtured and resurected carefully........this community will be considerably behind in where in was.
..and also at a disadvatage in offering hope to heal Lyme.

This is not to mention it's trmendously weakened power to advance in the political arenas.

This IMO would take concerted focus of people here when the great aspects were in tact, and through the spiral downward, integrated.
I don't even know if that can be done with all the bad air.

Not only were there core problems..but there was reverberation that effected many good members..
many have just split..I do not blame them.
......many got caught up in all the reverberation and, with no ill intent..
also were pigeon holed into acting in ways that were less than palatable..
but certainly not without reason or provocation.

Some of them were even blamed ..
Kind of like treating symptoms and not the cause.

Some offending members succeeded greatly in getting decent, caring members angry at EACHOTHER..
a terrible skill of the most damaging folks..and they succeeded in that for some time.

And a couple long time members have shown a sence of intolerance that would be detrimental in an attempt to mend.

Just my thoughts and concerns for the community I knew and love so much.

My love to Lou and Angela in any event..
you are wonderful, amazing people!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
YOU did not ever abandon us, I am not saying that at all..not at all..
You did so much for all of us.

these are just my views on the state of a community I too have loved so well and been a part of every day for so long.

Mo

"Fellow LymeNet members: Please accept my apologies ... But I have to tell you that in
re-reading the thread after several days of consideration I feel just as strongly now as
before..."

kick.. kick.. kick...

```````````````````````````````````````````

When the 6 year old smacked the 4 year old.. he was told to apologize. He said..

"I'm sorry I did that".

Then when mom wasn't looking.. he whispered.. "I didn't really mean it, nah, nah, nah.''

With all due respect..

I'm afraid having Admin and others come here ONLY after the place has been neglected
and nearly destroyed... and trying to do something that will satisfy folks, get you the money you need, and get things moving FORWARD... won't be accomplished if you keep
tossing out insults... then bringing up the SAME insults days later and saying you still
feel the same way.

Bottom line here-

We DON'T want the site to die. I THINK we all agree on that point. BUT...

In order for it to LIVE it must have people who know what has been actually going on
here for the past few years working on the solutions ... not someone who flies in after the fact.. reads a few posts.. and "assumes" to know the extent of all the problems and what to do to fix them.... and then expects others to believe and trust what they say, while slapping them around in the process.

And yes Lou.. sorry to disagree with your earlier explanation for his actions... but that IS what he is doing here. People are being slapped (they feel they are) and are questioning what is going on and WHY he is doing that. I tried once to get him to stop and let things calm down like you asked.. but HE is still at it... and folks are STILL being upset by that behavior.

Others may not complain here on the board.. but the reason I am here is because they
keep coming to me with their questions and concerns about the Admin and his posts and
the rest of the nasty mess... hoping I will address it.. and although I am VERY
busy and not feeling up to par.. I CAN'T sit back and just shut up as MORE members
become upset and come looking for help. Someone needs to speak up, to clear this up.

Right now Admin is simply pouring gasoline on the fire. And although some may claim
that isn't happening.. and people are writing off members concerns by saying they want folks to stop "nit picking"...

It IS happening... and they WON'T stop complaining anytime soon.

Locking certain topics off from comments that express how the folks here feel... in the hopes the problems will fade away unnoticed, MAY quiet the crowd .. but it won't solve the deeper problems that need to be addressed.

Simply put..

Legitimate questions have been asked. Until direct answers are given, the ones who keep
this site running smoothly on a day to day basis will continue to drift off and new folks in need of help will skip on by. THAT is the shame in all this hullabaloo. Yes.. new members will come along and help out.. but won't they eventually experience the same
fate as what happened here to the others if the problems aren't settled?

From the questions I see here.. folks don't want a detailed essay on what was done in the
past and a lecture about how people in charge have been listening and caring... blah blah blah. Especially when they themselves have long hours invested here too and it doesn't take a genius to see things have fallen apart.

They want direct answers and want to know why.. for example.. over $25,000.00 of their
money has been donated to keep this new board running for less than 5 years now..

And now another $7,500.00 is urgently needed to do the same improvements they were
promised would be done several years ago with that money, that were not done... or the
board will shut down.

They want to know why a cheaper route can't be taken.. why grants can't be found.. and have even shared ways to cut projected costs from $7,500.00 plus per year to below $500.00. And they want to know why saving
$7,000.00 a year doesn't seem to be a major concern.

And actually... I would like to be assured .. after having donated to LymeNet over the years like others have.. the site won't suddenly fall upon another major crisis.. with the solution being shoved in the members faces to suddenly pay more money or we will shut you down. No.. we can't predict the future.. and cover all possibilities.. but we CAN have a back up plan in place in the event something happens.

I agree with Michelle. Tree and others have spent countless hours here working their
fingers to the bone.. with NO other purpose in mind than to help someone in need. They have continued to stay in spite of all the problems and have tried to work around them in unfavorable conditions.

If the members want to improve the site as a group.. offer to help with a plan to save
EVERYONE money.... as well as have already volunteered their time and efforts for the
past and upcoming projects... my hopes would be we could work together instead of
bringing in those who don't know what has been going on and how folks here feel, to
sling mud.

When Tree posted those facts and figures.. that is ALL he posted. That is how Tree
posts. He doesn't run off at the mouth and take 500 words to make one small point like I
do. To read into his post.. then reply in a negative fashion.. makes folks wonder who is
feeling guilty about what?

How we individually "read into" Tree's post.. reflects on us... and suggests the depth of the knowledge/experience we have dealing every day with each other.

Immediately I noted from his post that if even half of the members donated $25.00.. or
less.. the goal LymeNet needed would be way surpassed by thousands.

If THAT were to happen.. WOW!

The possibilities the extra donated money could provide (approved by the members
themselves for the specific use of course) might be set aside for folks with no insurance who can't afford their meds.. to help purchase wheelchairs for those who need them.. to donate to the LDA or other top Lyme disease organizations.. to help out with the Columbia Research Center.. or heck..

We could even afford to send a card or small bunch of flowers to our members who are
recovering from surgeries or who need a little pick-me-up... or make a contribution to our special Green Santa program we started here several years ago. (If the search button is working you can see what we've been doing.)

BUT.. you would have had to KNOW what goes on here, and to KNOW Tree, by reading
several hundred of his posts over the years... to KNOW he wasn't .. and DIDN'T.. in any way, shape, or form suggest he thought anyone was mishandling money... especially.. money you DON'T even HAVE yet.

Yes.. I want this site to stay open and for all of us to work together NICELY. But I will not be a part of it.. and others won't either.. if the members are mistreated any more than they have been over the past year or so. They deserve respect and they have earned it.

They have already been subjected to months of abuse and been told to not rock the boat... and to keep their mouths shut... which is being followed now by more abuse from those who say they want things to move forward.

Not a good game plan in my opinion.

A sincere apology (with no conditions attached) for the board being run down and
neglected the way it has been for so long now- in spite of all the pleas for help from
members over the past several months and for allowing members to be abused repeatedly on what was suppose to be a moderated board...

And an ADULT apology from Admin for the current digs directed at the members which is adding insult to injury.... as well as some direct answers to legitimate questions from members (who have also paid out of THEIR pockets for the boards operation over the years) .. and more consideration or at least a reasonable explanation for not wanting to save LOTS of money and have a better functioning site in return... would be a place to start...

In my opinion.

Soooooooooooo...

------------------
If you get the choice to sit it out or dance...

Angela & I spent all night meeting with the LymeNet team in East Brunswick, NJ reviewing all your input and exchanging ideas on how we can do a better job of helping all of you. We reviewed all of the input received in the past few weeks and discussed how we can respond and best serve your needs.

I came home and logged on only to find that a couple of you are continuing to attack ... I feel as if you've reached into my body and ripped my heart out.

Tree and I exchanged emails earlier today and agreed to "let it go and move on to helping the victims of Lyme and other TBD's. That has always been the primary intent." In Tree's words "Yep".

Michelle, please understand that LymeNet would not have existed without Tom's unselfish efforts, therefore Tree would never have posted 50,900 minutes of advice to those in need. We're not asking for a "thank you", just an opportunity to help the victims of Lyme and other TBD's. That has always been the primary intent.

Mo, "the division, breaks, fractures, splinters of the Lyme community" are not something LymeNet can do anything about. We have a technology platform that includes a BB and if the individual users viewpoints, voiced on the BB, differ causing you all to divide, break, fracture and splinter, then the LymeNet users are the root cause, not the LymeNet team or the LymeNet systems.
We, the LymeNet team, built and support LymeNet as our gift to the Lyme community because of help that was given to us.

Tincup, I just don't know what to say. The LymeNet team conceived, built and supported LymeNet enabling the LymeNet users to help thousands of victims of Lyme and other TBD's. Now you are using the LymeNet system to attack and criticize the very people who have made every effort to help you and all the other victims of Lyme and other TBD's.
Tom has taken the time to provide direct answers to all the technical questions including why it costs $7500 and not $500. Geez, we run this thing on a shoestring ... $7500 is nothing. Think of LDA or LDF with their hundreds of thousands of dollars a year budgets, think of AHA or Breast Cancer with their millions of dollars a year budgets. Do they get beaten up for spending $300 a month for an Internet connection? By users who want to compare that to their $50 a month PC/cable connection? I think NOT! We, the LymeNet team, talked tonight about how to answer all the legitimate questions. You know what ... I give up. I read your post and I've now re-read it numerous times.
I just don't know what to say because I'm now convinced that no matter what I or Angela or Tom or Bill or any member of the LymeNet team says you'll just find something else to attack and criticize.
I asked you for help and support. In response, you attacked and criticized. I really don't know what to say.

The blame goes to all corners here. Poor Moderation...and the fact that the Posters won't accept the fact the founding members were admittedly caught with their pants down here..I am sure that there is dep remorse on the abuse that was laid down on posters during the past by the founders.

What is happening mow is carefully designed implosion of this website orchestrated by professionals in the industry.

Am I the ONLY one that sees this.

Will both sides please remeber..that they are actually on the SAME side here? Please.

The financial problems and challenges ARE real...not contrived..and after sitting back and reading this..I sent this off to my brother who is MAJOR player in the information technology sector...

His outside opinion...the administrator is right on the money about the money.

In fact, he felt that we were getting, in his words; "One helluva deal."

People....Mr Brown, Lou, Angela, Mo, Tincup...all of you.

Stop placing salt in each others wounds or thinking only of yourself here...that is THE repeating cycle that is happening here...

We had similar scenario happen right here in Iowa 5 years ago...and our whole system was shattered for years..made totally ineffective..thank the good Lord he gave me Lyme disease...why? Because..I hate to say this...but I will...after I stepped in...built a website...with half a brain..contacted the OLD Board Members of dismantled professionals and sufferers we are now up and running. Looking back...here's what both sides of the argument BACK THEN say..."It was my ego..they meant well...I just wouldn't listen."

Hell......do realize WHAT WE COULD HAVE DONE WITHOUT THEIR EGO"S?

Let Lymenet move forward...today. At this moment. On this Day....and everyday to follow..PLEASE.

Now everyone step back and take a deep breath.

Trout

As more info became available, I am still of the same opinion. My background in accounting and business has taught me that most direct mail solicitations rely on a 1% or 2% response rate.

I think the folks here on this site can do better than that. The reality is that $1 or $2 from every registered user and a little more from those who can afford it is all that it will take.

I know I haven't been around at this site as long as many of you but I have made some really good friends here and plan to continue making more. I may not be a walking encyclopedia on tick-borne diseases, but I sure have learned alot and plan to learn more.

My name and address are real, because when I joined I didn't know any better. In this technological age I had never sent an email prior to joining this group.

I am college educated and have worked for a Big 8 (I think there are only 6 now or maybe just 5?) CPA (Certified Public Accounting) firm. I have also worked as 1 of 30 accountants in a division of a Fortune 500 manufacturing company.

Just 13 years ago when I left the corporate world upon my marriage 5 of us in that office shared a PC. Since then the corporation upgraded to SAP (a German based operating system) to the tune of millions of dollars.

The world continues to change and some of us are left sitting in the dust. For newbies and oldies alike, I suggest you read or reread Dr B's testimony before the U.S. Senate on 9/5/93 regarding the Lyme Disease Conspiracy.See http://www.jersey.net/~joebur/conspire.htm

In my opinion this could have been written yesterday not over a decade ago. This is reality folks and the reason many of us are here at this site today.

It has been less than a month since hubby got a certified letter from an MD who refused him treatment. We had moved back to our apartment in Virginia and were looking for a new primary care provider.

This MD stated in his letter that we were "using holistic and alternative methods that he did not approve of and would not continue."

The insurance company is satisfied and even pays on the IV Vitamin C and IV magnesium. They did pay some on the fatty acid testing done at John Hopkins University lab although we pay out of pocket for the IV phosphatidylcholine.

If anyone doubts my hubby is sick, you can read his 4 1/2 year treatment history to date at http://flash.lymenet.org/ubb/Forum1/HTML/035062.html

I was thinking about it the other day and trying to remember how I found this site since at the time I was basically computer illiterate -- as far as I can remember I linked to this site from the IgeneX site.

Prior to purchasing a computer with some of the ridiculously small settlement from my husband's long-term disability claim, I could only ever access the wonderful world of the internet at a public library or medical library in some hospital.

I couldn't then and still can't leave hubby alone for more than 1 - 2 hours at a time so what computer research I could do was very limited. I quickly found out that there was a whole world out there waiting to be explored.

This site is operated as a charity and if you have a problem with that then there are numerous other groups at both yahoo and elsewhere on the internet. I am satisfied with Tom's explanation and appreciate the work of Lou and Angela and everyone else behind the scenes.

Whatever real or perceived problems there were in the past should remain in the past. Let's all pull together and get the job done.

Tree, I have a list of 40 plus LLMD's (about 10 are in Florida). I offered this to someone else before, without any takers. This list was faxed to me by a Florida LLMD about 2 years ago (it's how hubby found the 4 LLMD's he has consulted). You may already have all these names in your data base. Email me if interested.

Bea Seibert

I'm sorry.

I know you guys are working like mad to fix the technical part of all this..
and the funding and all.

I know that. And I know it's huge and I am extremely grateful to anyone working to provide for Lymenet!

Let ma clarify, I also know you had nothing to do with what happened here over these many months, and am heartwarmed that you are back to help.

However, even in going forward there is another problem that exists that is very real.

I was speaking of something else, that is equally important to the community..
which was a result of administrative problems and lack of response when so many asked for help.

Your statement:
"if the individual users viewpoints, voiced on the BB, differ causing you all to divide, break, fracture and splinter, then the LymeNet users are the root cause, not the LymeNet team or the LymeNet systems."

..is simply not accurate cause for the actual problems I was refering to.
Though, I can only imagine all the angles and viewpoints you must be having to sort out in all of this at this juncture.

The "breaks" had/have NOTHING to do with
differing opinions.

(you know we have always as a community had those, lol)

and yes, the past is over..
but damages remain that I think are far worse than faulty equipment,

I meant that I felt administratively..
you all must at least be cognizant of in order to try and fix it. (the community, not the server)

I think that is important for you guys to know..

tho I may be speaking Chinese to you when you are focused on other aspects..

I really don't think TC was, and I can also assure I wasn't, rubbing salt in anyone's wounds..

I was commenting on a certain reality...other than what you need to focus on right now, I guess, and for that, I'm sorry.
See --- I don't know nutin' bout puters, Miss Scarlet

I believe the issues re: a broken community are very real and a huge part of what has happened here...and I was trying to say it was hugely important to take what happened over time here into account as administrators trying to mend things.

I feel that is very valid, going forward..
is not meant to aggrivate anyone..

My best,
Mo

I firmly believe that the depth of passion witnessed here is directly related to the depth of caring about this site and those that use it.

This is a great compliment to LymeNet, the founders, and ALL of the volunteers that keep it running.

Without ALL of you, this site would not exist.

I see the members asking for clarification...this is NOT an attack on the character of the LymeNet staff, but a plea for answers.

I see the LymeNet staff asking for patience...this is not unreasonable...it is their site afterall, and we are the guests in their home.

I think what we all need to remember is that we all consider LymeNet as OUR home...and its members our family.

There has been discord here for quite some time, and it will take some time to eliminate that. The problem as I see it is that we are running out of time...patience is wearing thin on both sides...and we still have no idea how to resolve this family crisis.

Of course...there will be passion, fear, apprehension, questions, sadness, etc.

...I guess, in my rush to get out the door this morning...I may have left the impression that people TRYING to rub salt in old wounds...I was not.

You took more time to put together your response...and it was well writen.

I wasn't pointing fingers at EITHER side about anything.

What I was attempting to say...is what you did...the core problem is NOT the money...the air, the atmosphere, the distrust that now exists.

In fact...unfortunately it has quite frankly turned many of us oldtimers against each other...at time that we actually need to unite.

I am looking at what outside forces did to us...into corners and lashing at each other through paranoia, etc.

I also feel that Lou, Angela, the Admin, etc have done a remarkable job.

we just need to move on...that's all...I am including everyone when I say this...myself at the top of the list.

I was caught up in the discord as were many of us...and, I am deeply scarred by it...as my relationship with some here has become so suspect that...they...'think' I am referring negatively towards them when I am NOT.

we all now look at each others posts as if they are a 'dig' at another..when they aren't what aren't...this rift...this cancer is what is killing this board.

And I refer...once again to the fact that...poor moderation...in the past...not now...caused this.

Remember...its in the PAST...so lets move forward...stop taking people out of context...and move on.

I may have typed too quickly this morning....and left some holes in my position...but my position is not of pointing fingers...that must not be repeated...over and over again.

Trout

I wish the wrongs of yesterday could be overlooked as we struggle to help ourselves and others.

Let's devote our energies to fighting TBD and bumsteers.

I sent my donation last week.

Janet Thomas

My husband read over this post and laughed. He was like, $7500? They must be paying for other things out of their own pocket. He is a network specialist for a well known, large computer company that is contracted to the government - so to say the least, he knows what he is talking about.

Thank you for the information. Some of us have no idea what it takes to run Lymenet (much less understand how complex it is) and $7500 seems like a heck of alot.

Also, I had no idea that only 7 (?) people ran this board? And all of you have your own family and your own jobs? I don't think some ppl on Lymenet remember that sometimes. I know I never thought about it until I found out it was only 7 of you.

We do appreciate all that is done to keep Lymenet running and on it's feet. And we also appreciate all the members who keep track of our LLMD's, spend hours researching and posting, come on specifically to see if any newbies have posted new questions, etc.

Lymenet would not be here if it wasn't for all of us and the effort of everyone.

Alot has been going on lately. Many ppl were upset with, what they felt, was a lack of moderation (and caring) on our forums.

Alot of mean things were said and many ppl, including myself, left.

All in all, many people ended up feeling very angry/upset/saddened. It was a horrible time - hence why I left.

So, I believe it will take time for the wounds to heal.

Lymenet was a place to come to for help, for sympathy, for understanding and to have our board swept in a totally different direction just astounded, saddened, angered and suprised all of us.

Our one place of peace and acceptance became a sort of battlefield.

We need to keep this from happening again.

i am proud of the responders to this post.you have been leaders that i depend on.and i will continue to do so..

lou,angela, these are the people who are the backbone of of lymenet ,to me.

it would be a good idea to have these people help you in restoring the good back here on lymenet.they,as you have been the mainstays...

maybe let them be your eyes and ears,as you do have a life to live also.

thankyou to everyone ,for pulling on the same side of the rope.

now,if i have to come foward and do this again,there will be no dessert after dinner....

thankyou to all you caring people , gary

``Tincup, I just don't know what to say. The LymeNet team conceived, built and supported LymeNet enabling the LymeNet users to help thousands of victims of Lyme and other TBD's.

Now you are using the LymeNet system to attack and criticize the very people who have made every effort to help you and all the other victims of Lyme and other TBD's.

Tom has taken the time to provide direct answers to all the technical questions including why it costs $7500 and not $500.

Geez, we run this thing on a shoestring ... $7500 is nothing. Think of LDA or LDF with their hundreds of thousands of dollars a year budgets, think of AHA or Breast Cancer with their millions of dollars a year budgets. Do they get beaten up for spending $300 a month for an Internet connection? By users who want to compare that to their $50 a month PC/cable connection? I think NOT!

We, the LymeNet team, talked tonight about how to answer all the legitimate questions. You know what ... I give up. I read your post and I've now re-read it numerous times.

I just don't know what to say because I'm now convinced that no matter what I or Angela or Tom or Bill or any member of the LymeNet team says you'll just find something else to attack and criticize.''

Lou, what happened to ``turn the other cheek''? Rising above criticism? Think of how many times our politicians have to do this! Leaders have to take a lot of heat. it goes with the turf.

``With a system that today supports several different Lyme-related web sites (with over 100,000 registered users on the LymeNet Flash forums alone), there is quite a bit of hands-on maintenance, late nights, and personal expense and sacrifice required to keep things going.''

NP40 posted 05 August 2005 16:42 Reposting Tom Brown's statement regarding lymenet

Then the number of registered users dropped to 6876...

Lou B posted 07 August 2005 10:55 "Oops ... Tom Brown must have mis-spoken when he said "100,000 registered users", the LymeNet Flash has exactly, at this minute, 6876 registered users. I "think" Tom meant to say "over 100,000 user posts on the LymeNet Flash forums". Please keep in mind that this means 6800+ users have registered."

When dealing with/reporting numbers...we all have to be very, very careful or suspicions are raised...and very pointed questions will be asked.

We all should know where our money goes...from a family budget, to donations to charitable organizations to government spending. Asking this is not a personal attack and should not be viewed as such.

In the past, there have been lyme patients on the boards here who were using internet access to Lymenet in a LIBRARY because they didn't have the money for PC/Cable connections...yet alone a computer. One was homeless, as I recall.

Just because people have money doesn't mean they can afford to give sums away. Those who have disabled children may need to build up significant ``estates'' to supply the needed money to support that child throughout his/her life when the parents are no longer living. With the cost of living rising, this is really scary for many.

Giving isn't just about money. It can be one's TIME...Mother Theresa had no money, but she gave her time and love and devotion to others. This is...commendable. Your time and devotion to Lymenet, to helping others, is to be commended. Absolutely.

How close are you currently to 300 people each donating $25? With only 6876 registered users, that's a response of about 11%. - a big undertaking for any organization soliciting donations.

Why don't the national Lyme organizations help out to support this site...LDA/LDF? Have they been asked?

Lou said.. "I came home and logged on only to find that a couple of you are continuing to attack ... I feel as if you've reached into my body and ripped my heart out."

First of all.. I am sorry.. perhaps you are not understanding the intentions of those who are sharing their thoughts on the board. I know you've been away a long time.. but please do reconsider what the members are saying. And please note the ones responding here (long time members) actually CARE enough to respond and are trying to get answers so they can ALL move forward.

And...

Although I have tried to understand what you are saying ... I really fail to see how expressing our concerns about the site ... offering suggestions to save money... and asking questions... falls under the category of "attacking." I know Admin already misread a post... but I would think (HOPE) since you have helped on the board in the past... you would know we aren't "attacking".. just asking.

On the other hand.. it IS true I am displeased with Admin's name calling and his insincere appology... as I also wasn't happy with the attacks by others on the members here... that continued unchecked for months on end... without help from those who were suppose to help... and who were repeatedly asked TO help.

In MY opinion... Amin's name calling was uncalled for and rude... and had it been any other member saying it.. or a person on the street... I would have said the same thing. I didn't call him a horse's rear-end or attack him... nor did I "attack" anyone else. I simply pointed out it was not appropriate... kinda like you did when you told members to stop nit-picking when they asked questions. (I am assuming that wasn't an "attack"?)

Beyond that..

I have simply asked the questions that MANY members have... expressed their concerns .. and we were hoping for direct answers.

Lou said.. "Think of LDA or LDF with their hundreds of thousands of dollars a year budgets, think of AHA or Breast Cancer with their millions of dollars a year budgets. Do they get beaten up for spending $300 a month for an Internet connection?"

First of all.. You aren't getting "beaten up"... so I hope you don't look at it that way. You are only being asked questions about LymeNet by it's members ... and have been offered suggestions that were meant to help improve the site and help save money... of which some of the money is what we previously donated for that purpose. As life goes.. some won't agree 100 percent with what you say, or I say... or what others say.. so please don't take that as an attack.

Second.. I do not donate to all of those other organizations on a regular basis.. nor do I spend thousands of hours supporting them (educationally or emotionally)... or by helping them raise money each year during our fund drive.. so I really am not concerned with their financial circumstances or future at the moment.

Actually, it isn't really relevant to this conversation what they do. If I did ask them though.. and had my time and money tied up in them.. I would hope to get answers to questions when I asked them.

Lou said.. "We, the LymeNet team, talked tonight about how to answer all the legitimate questions. You know what ... I give up."

I am trying to word this "nicely".. I truely am. Please KNOW that I mean no disrespect... ok?

My thought is.. could you all answer the legitimate questions asked of LymeNet (since you had a big meeting about it already and discussed it)... before you give up?

Oh.. and I don't want you to throw in the towel just yet. You just got here! Please be a little patient and give us some time to share with you how we feel before getting so discouraged.. ok? We've tuffed out the REALLY rough stuff already.. the rest should be a piece of cake.

Lou said.. "I asked you for help and support. In response, you attacked and criticized. I really don't know what to say."

I WANT to continue to support LymeNet.. the OLD LymeNet.. once things are straightened out. I have been here since day one.. have always supported this site in any way I can .. and I have.. as have others... worked hard keeping our "family" together.

But the road goes two ways...

We were let down terribly.. months on end.. and were promised things that did not happen. No.. that is not an attack .. just an observation. We were being TOLD not to respond to the ones who attacked us... and are now NOT being answered when there are legitimate concerns... and in the same breath we are still being asked to "support LymeNet".

By the way.. It is nice to see you are writing emails to members and trying to get their support behind the scenes while this is going on... and sharing future plans with them. Could you possibly post that info here on the board too.. so the ones you haven't emailed personally will know?

Thanks for your consideration.

Thanks for all your input.

I've got it ... I've REALLY got it, I DO understand. Yep, we can fix this together. As Tincup said .. the rest should be a piece of cake.

My last post on this Topic thread was Saturday 8/13 @ 4AM ... I had spent the night with the LymeNet team ... I was tired and a bit testy ... sorry if I was a little rough around the edges.

Now it's Monday 8/15 @ 3AM ... I've asked some of you some really tough questions. I asked you to be honest with me, brutally honest. I asked " What went wrong?" and "How can we fix it?" I asked for answers in 25 words or less ... I got thousands of words. An awful lot to read and digest. I read and re-read your answers. Thank you for your honest input. You answered and I GOT IT! I'm going to open another Topic tomorrow (I'm too tired tonight) and I'll give you the answers you want. OK?

We will, as Tincup said ... work hard keeping our "family" together.

I love you all, especially you, Tincup ... you know Angela and I will always be here for you.

I know everyone here has bumped, stubbed there toe. This is basically whats happened theres been people here that have had there toe stubbed and now they keep bumping it.

Its sore and its sticking out there for everyone to bump it real or imagined because its sore.
Its really really sore and it just keeps getting bumped.

Thats whats happened.

I agree with everyone on here there all right.

And Trout you really caught it good fishing there has and is a conspiricy by opponents.

Tc your as usual wonderful and Melanie as usual sweet.

Lou,Angela,all lymenet founders whats happening is your reaping whats gone unchecked for the past year or so remember lymenet has a big sore toe and anything that you try to do because you havent been around and havent seen the people getting that toe kicked by influences from outside this board.
Is going to be hard basically your playing catch up.

What I want to say is we ((all)) lymenet members and founders have to stay calm and discuss any problems immediatly or as soon as we can.

And that can only happen if both sides respond in a timely fasion.

Take me I just logged in here this monday morning that means I missed alot on the weekend.

I think most of the problems could have been elimanated by quick moderating more moderators ?

Also quick responces to emails.

Now I know that is hard to do.

ps before responding everyone should if it makes them angry take time out and think about it for a while at whatever angers the person responding to the post. So that your responce is not in anger and really try to understand the one offending you. Just a suggestion.

I really care about lymenet its been a great place to help people.
God bless everone here.

Lets continue to work together

Looky what I foud

Oh heck ... what happened to my day ... and night?

Another very late night ... I'm not just tired, I'm exhausted. I know I said I'd open another Topic with answers to all the questions ... you had a lot of questions ...

Bill & Carol along with Angela & I have been working far too many hours putting together our answers to all your questions. We need to make sure that we can deliver what we promise, so we're still workin' on the answers and the plan!

Sleep now ... new Topic summarizing all the info tomorrow ... OK?

Thanks for your patience,

-How much disk space is needed for the site?

-What are these other applications being used for?

-Are they really necessary to host a message board and the other information provided by the site?

-Could the non-message board information be converted to text (if that is not what it is already) and posted in a "Library" forum, as individual messages?

-Could there be links to this information on another page, perhaps in a subdomain such as library.lymenet.net?

-It seems that most of the information provided on this site that is not part of the message board is text. If it isn't, could it be converted so as to take up less space/bandwidth to access?

-Could pictures be placed in the "Library" forum as attachments to posts? I don't know when it is coming, but WowBB will be adding a multiple attachment feature to their software, and perhaps others already do this. In the meantime, while it would be more cumbersome, each photo could be attached to a post, and could appear inline as part of that post.

- Did this information originally come from another site such that Lymenet could simply provide links to those other sites, rather than store the information here?

Here was the response I received at the WowBB Forums when I provided this new information: http://www.wowbb.com/forums/view_topic.php?id=3856&forum_id=7&jump_to=16665 if you want to see the entire thread

<< Bandwidth is how much data can be transmitted/received in a fixed amount of time, usually represented in bits per second (bps).

Just so you understand, there are 8 bits in a byte. A byte is a measure of how much data you're talking about. Example: files on a computer are measured in how many bytes they take up. 1K is roughly 1,000 bytes, actually 1,024, no need to get into why for this discussion.

A 1000 bps speed is VERY slow by today's standards. Sure you got that right? Today, most ISP's and hosting companies have reduntant T1 or T3 connections.

A T1 is capable of handling 1.544Mbits a second. Yep, mbps is millions. Its really 24 channels each carrying 64Kbits per second. Remember K stands for a thousand. A T3 can handle 44,736,000 bits-per-second. Your guy has one overloaded computer probably. Most hosting company count their servers (computers) in the dozens or hundreds, each loaded with RAM and probably some kind of RAID configuration for storage.

I'm not trying to sell WowBB or anybody else. It just seems fishy what you're being told relative to speed/performance/costs. The more you tell us... the less it adds up. >>

Tom, I want to make sure you understand that I mean no disrespect by my continued questioning, though I am sure you are becoming annoyed with me.

Based on what I am learning, however, it sounds like Lymenet members are being asked for a lot of money to upgrade to a system that will be antiquated before it is even implemented.

I don't expect Lymenet to get a T1 or T3 line, but this, combined with my questions in my previous post, are the reasons I am not convinced Lymenet is moving in the right direction, financially or technologically. I am still left wondering if, with some restructuring (such as providing links to other sites rather than storing information here), Lymenet could move to a less expensive offsite hosting solution.

Thank you.

I haven't checked with Tom in the past 24 hours but I know he's busy getting some things done that we need ASAP. To save him some time, I thought I'd reply to your posts.

Here's some info to help you understand us:

Tom has a comp sci degree, 10+ years experience in the IT field and works for a major network equipment manufacturer.
Marc has a comp sci degree, 10+ years experience in the IT field and works for a major IT consulting firm.
I, prior to retiring, developed and implemented business/technology solutions and had 30+ years experience in the IT field working for IBM.
Jen, our webmaster, just got her MBA.
Bill is our leader and has the business skills.
Carol is the voice of reason.
Angela is the voice of compassion.

We, as a team, have the skills and experience and understand how to economically develop a technology solution based on the unique needs of LymeNet. LymeNet is more than just a BB. LymeNet has other data repositories (see Menu list on upper left). We also host the LDA website on our servers which drives another set of unique requirements.

I tell you this because I don't want to see you spending too much time attempting to pass requirements piece by piece to WowBB. I did a cursory look at WowBB and they may be able to handle the BB side of our requirements but probably not the rest of our needs.

As Tom previously stated:
"Why does LymeNet have to host their own servers?

With all that is required to host our own service, why not use one of the hundreds of hosting providers out there (i.e. WowBB et. al.)? Prior to purchasing the new server equipment we gave this idea considerable thought and analysis, both from a technical and from a cost perspective. I won't go into specific details on the numbers here, but with our current traffic volume and the amount of disk storage required to house our databases, as well as the ability to support some of the back-end applications (i.e. not only simple web pages and Perl/PHP applications as most low-end hosting providers support, but also Lotus Domino and other enterprise applications which few will support for just a few hundred dollars a month). Additionally, looking at long-term numbers (i.e. three to five years out), the combination of full ownership of the server equipment at the prices we were able to pay and the lower monthly ISP cost will result in less net spending than paying the kind of monthly hosting fees that would be required to support our systems. This is not speculation, but rather is based on real world numbers and quotes given by both low-end hosting providers like WowBB as well as the more appropriate mid-range (and even high-end) ASP's with whatever non-profit discount they were willing to offer."
And ...
"Here is the bottom line.

In the short term we are forced to stick with the in-house solution that we have in place. A "low-end" hosting provider like WowBB just can't accommodate the kind of enterprise software our systems rely on currently, even with the most expensive package they advertise. Mid-range hosting providers which do meet the requirements do not fit within a reasonable price range currently. Therefore to make this work with today's demand and with today's budget, we are migrating things to a faster server on a faster Internet connection.

Long-term, we are working to simplify our systems and to consolidate the technology. We are keeping an open mind about the off-site hosting option, and may very well move to off-site hosting if and when it becomes a more cost-effective option."

So tickedntx, have confidence that we will implement the most cost effective solution that will support LymeNet, the LDA and the needs of our user communities.

Thank you. Even without addressing the technical aspects of my question, you made those answers unnecessary with the information you have provided.

If someone had provided this information earlier, instead of expecting us to trust people on blind faith, it would have, I think, saved a lot of us a lot of time and frustration.

I now have the confidence in the Lymenet management that I need to make a donation, and will do so shortly.

Sorry for not getting all the info out here on the Flash sooner. It took a little time to formulate the answers and pull it all together. We're a small team with busy lives and "time" is in short supply. There are thousands of you, LymeNet users, and only seven (7) of us ... when many of you come at us too quickly, we can easily get overwhelmed.

I've now put all the info in a single Topic ... what a concept ... in order to make it easier to read, comprehend and understand.

The Topic is here: http://flash.lymenet.org/ubb/Forum3/HTML/013392.html