-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96227 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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hiker53
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 6046
posted
Everything in moderation. I already avoid gluten (celiac disease), corn, soy, and dairy. Now if I cut out my leafy greens, berries, and nuts, what will I eat.
And give up dark chocolate---AAAH.
I see the merit in this low oxalate diet. Just not sure I can give up everything.
-------------------- Hiker53
"God is light. In Him there is no darkness." 1John 1:5 Posts: 8974 | From Illinois | Registered: Aug 2004
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probably everything in excess is not good - the trick is to understand what is excess -our culture does a lot in excess and labels it as normal - that can be confusing
we are so sick, that we long for a solution so much and are willing to try extreme diets, if someone gives us hope that they will save us
I have to say it did help me in the 2000's
I lost 40 lbs and felt much better - but it (extremely strict 4-day rotation diet) did not cure me and I think even the "no sugar" rule did not have 100% benefits - one day I was so brain fogged and ate a bag of candy out of despair and my brain fog lifted - I think my brain needed the sugar to think properly and faster
-------------------- Persistence, persistence, persistence!!! "Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence... Persistence and determination are omnipotent." attributed to Calvin Coolidge Posts: 599 | From USA | Registered: Jun 2011
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-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96227 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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Brussels
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 13480
posted
I hate green smoothies, but I love big salads!
Lettuce and green leaves, they do wonders for me. Hubby is also a fan! We eat loads of green salads, really in big amounts (sometimes, our meal is just a big lettuce bowl for each of us).
I guess we are all different...
My gut loves fresh green salads, my mind gets clearer, etc. It's funny how can we develop so many gut problems.
I feel nourished, not hungry after that big bowl. ....
I know a man that cannot take anything fresh (only in tiny amounts).
I was thinking that his gut is so destroyed that he lost the ability to digest raw foods?
What we used to call in lymenet only multiple chemical sensitivity is now a multitude of gut conditions, described in the medical literature....
Sigh...
One thing is sure: our guts are in trouble! the names of our chronic gut conditions vary incredibly... What a world.
Posts: 6199 | From Brussels | Registered: Oct 2007
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- Magnesium (especially if deficient) just one factor to consider for balance. It's not so simple as to say load up on either but if magnesium is deficient, oxalates could cause much more trouble when in excess.
Remember, though, that magnesium can't be taken all at once as that could harm kidneys. It won't absorb all at once, either. It has to be in divided doses, about 8 hours apart . . . so 3 x day to have it stay steady.
posted
Information on Oxalate "Dumping" .. which will occur if you suddenly stop eating foods high in oxalates:
Quote...
How will I recognize cycles of “dumping?”
Dumping is the cyclical process whereby oxalate is first liberated from wherever stored. (If it is stored in your nervous system, you could get brain fog. If it's stored in glands like the thyroid, you could feel cold or be tired. For those who have it stored in the digestive tract, there can be poor digestion). Initial symptoms will depend on where the oxalate is stored in your body.
Once liberated, it then circulates in your body for a bit (and likely causes some more symptoms - generally reminiscent of the symptoms that brought you to the diet in the first place) before you'll excrete it.
During this period - while it's circulating in the blood stream - many people report a peculiar kind of insomnia where you wake in the middle of the night, and are awake for a time, before falling asleep again.
This kind of insomnia is very characteristic of oxalate. You may also get other symptoms that will make you think that your health is taking a step backwards. It isn't! Dumping is a good sign, and it means that you are reducing the toxic load in your system.
When you excrete the oxalate and finally get it out of your system, you can also get symptoms, like diarrhea, constipation, cloudy urine, skin irritation, etc. This is oxalate's "last kick at the can", as it leaves the body.
Often, periods of "dumping" alternate with periods of feeling improved over your previous level of health. This is very common. However, some people can "dump" for prolonged periods before getting a break. This is also normal. The good news is that, once a dump is done, you should see health gains.
So basically, it is (1) symptoms of oxalate liberation, (2) symptoms of circulating oxalates, and (3) symptoms of excretion, followed by possible feelings of improved health.
If you see cycles like this over time, then you will be able to recognize the dumping cycles for your own body.
How do I manage the Dumping periods?
One thing that may help is to manipulate urinary or salivary pH when there are big swings (which often happens during regressive periods) by eating the appropriate foods.
Epsom salts baths help detox the oxalates quicker. (If you or your child seem to get worse from these baths, then see the section above about starting supplements…start low and gradually increase. Also, you could start by having the baths farther away from bedtime until the body adjusts and begins to relax with the baths).
The VSL#3 probiotic helps to shift the oxalate excretion from the urine to the stool, which can help symptoms.
Sodium Bicarbonate can help with behaviors. Keep up with the appropriate supplementation to minimize oxalate production and help undo the damage that oxalates have created.
Common Dumping Signs:
Dumping signs can be pretty individual, but here is a list of some of the more common signs. • Cloudy urine/crystals in the urine • Grainy or sandy stools • Rashes (some good pictures are in the photo section) • Incontinence or urgent need to go • Painful urination • Vaginal pain • Eye pain (like getting poked or stabbing pain) • Insomnia • Pain from old injury sites • Irritability or becoming more emotional, depression • Lower back/abdominal pain • Craving high oxalate foods
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96227 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96227 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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Catgirl
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 31149
posted
Good stuff Lymetoo (thank you for posting)! Time for some B6 for me.
-------------------- --Keep an open mind about everything. Also, remember to visit ACTIVISM (we can change things together). Posts: 5418 | From earth | Registered: Mar 2011
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LisaK
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 41384
posted
interesting and apropos for my sister-in-law right now as she just got out of the hospital for having severe kidney stones ! and of course they put a stent in and it infected her with staff and she almost died! and had 104 fever and now on iv abx for weeks!!!
I will pass this on to her! thanks!!!!!!
-------------------- Be thankful in all things- even difficult times and sickness and trials - because there is something GOOD to be seen Posts: 3562 | From Eastern USA | Registered: Jul 2013
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posted
Catgirl.. taking too much B6 carries its own risks!!!! You can become toxic on it .. very easily. We get plenty in our diets.
Lisa .. Tell your sister to get on the Trying Low Oxalates group on FB.
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96227 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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LisaK
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 41384
posted
OOOo ok lymetoo!!! thanks!
-------------------- Be thankful in all things- even difficult times and sickness and trials - because there is something GOOD to be seen Posts: 3562 | From Eastern USA | Registered: Jul 2013
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I'm oxalate sensitive but salicylates don't bother me. My daughter is salicylate sensitive but oxalates don't bother her.
Reply: I see no validity to using the term oxalate sensitivity. Through eleven years of work in this area we've noticed two things. Those who do not react to oxalate often will react to them when the amount they are getting is reduced.
Alcoholism works like that because it also is recognized by the body as a toxin or poison. People get delirium tremens not when they drink alcohol but when they stop drinking it.
Secondly, sensitivity usually indicates a familiarity with something by the adaptive or antibody mediated part of our immune system. This is a reaction to a protein in something.
Oxalate is not a protein but it is identified as a toxin by our innate immunity and then then it may set off seriously dangerous inflammatory cascades. If it had been noticeable that oxalate caused problems then an awful lot of people who show up would have never gotten trouble.
They got in trouble because they didn't react to it and they used it more and more until they got sick and somehow found us.
There can be differences in absorption, differences in how much fat is or isn't in the diet, how much calcium or other minerals keep the oxalate from being absorbed, and differences in the presence or lack of oxalate degrading flora.
These can lead to differences in absorption but that is entirely different from a sensitivity or lack of sensitivity. Problems with oxalate are definitely NOT recognized by having reactions to ingesting them.
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96227 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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