LymeNet Flash: Was there lyme in the NE before the epidemic in Connecticut?

This is topic Was there lyme in the NE before the epidemic in Connecticut? in forum General Support at LymeNet Flash.

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Posted by aliyalex (Member # 6976) on :

I am wondering if there was lyme in Penna in the 60s?

I posted in Medical about my 80 y/o mother having weird sxs 40 yrs ago. And my grandfather died of Parkinson Disease.

We all spent much time in the woods on a lake in Penna. Lots of deer, mice, rats...

Thanks.

Posted by mlkeen (Member # 1260) on :

Sorry your mom is sick. Yes, lyme has been around a while. I do remember reading that they found the spirokeets in a tick that had been preserved from the late 1800's. I don't remember where it had been collected, but I think from New England.

I lived in northern PA until the early 70's. When I moved to the SE part I was shocked by the number of ticks down here.

Mel

Posted by Kara Tyson (Member # 939) on :

The first confirmed case in the United States was reported by Dr. Rudolph Scrimenti in 1970 after treating a patient who became ill after a tick bite while hunting in Wisconsin.

The first recorded case of what is believed to have been Borrelia burgdorferi infection was in Germany in 1883 identified by Dr. Alfred Buchwald.

In 1909, Dr. Arvid Afzelius presented a report to the Swedish Society of Dermatology an illness that came from the bite of a tick. This illness was referred to at the time as Lipschutz's Syndrome, Afzelius's erythema, & Lipschutz' erythema.

[This message has been edited by Kara Tyson (edited 20 August 2005).]

Posted by Biting Back (Member # 6018) on :

I'd have to vote yes. It's been around since the 1800s but the disease has had varied names through the years.

Posted by lou (Member # 81) on :

Karen Forschner's book on lyme says museum specimen more than a hundred years old tested positive for borrelia, in the U.S.

Aggravating they can find it in long dead rodent but not live infected humans.

Posted by aliyalex (Member # 6976) on :

Very interesting posts. Thanks.

Posted by janet thomas (Member # 7122) on :

Before it was called Lyme I think it was called Montauk's knee out on Long Island.

Posted by lou (Member # 81) on :

There is a question in my mind whether the critter in the museum specimen is the same thing genetically as the critter in the Lyme, CT epidemic. Wish someone would do more rigorous testing to settle this question.

Posted by janeymae (Member # 7018) on :

I read somewhere that Lyme has been around thousands of years. Of course no one knew what to look for then and symptoms could be chocked up to anything. (almost like today)

People also didn't live as long. It would be interesting to see if keets could be found in our ancestors.

Posted by pq (Member # 6886) on :

after seeing the autobiography on sammuel clemmens(mark twain), i could swear his wife, and perhaps one daughter became infected with TBDs.
twain had his CT house built from scratch, which probably meant clearing the woods and so exposure to ticks and other insects,and animals serving as vectors, including robins, and perhaps other birds.

Posted by aliyalex (Member # 6976) on :

pq:

Interesting theory!

Posted by Kara Tyson (Member # 939) on :

PQ,

My great grandmother was Felona Clemmons. She was Sam's niece.

The only thing I can tell you about him was that the Clemmons family was ashamed of him and denied they even knew him (much less were related to him)!

Here is a photo with 2 of my relatives. Helen Keller (from my father's side) and Samuel (from my mom's side).

Posted by pq (Member # 6886) on :

Wow Kara!

i'd guess if anyone claimed kinship they would've been ostracized.

For one First Night, in montclair,nj, i saw an impersonator,who could have been his clone, with the white hair, white suit, and twain's voice,and the cigar. the guy did a few of his works. as i recall, the guy even adapted twain's assessment to the then current events.
he was good.

Posted by Ann-OH (Member # 2020) on :

Lou, Black-legged ticks are pretty easy to identify by eye - size and markings.

Researchers tested the ticks' DNA, found that they were the same tick as those being called Ixodes Damini ( which some in Research thought was a totally different, possibly new tick)

They also found the DNA of Lyme-bearing spirochetes in the collected tick's gut.

That is why Ixodes Damini is no longer used as the name of a tick. In taxonomy, first come gets the name for eternity. So the black-legged tick is known as Ixodes scapulari east of the Rockies, and Ixodes pacificus on the West coast.

The ticks were in a collection that had been in the Smithsonian since the 1800's. That collection was examined by Jim Oliver, an entomologist hero of mine, at the U. of Georgia (I believe.) Somewhere I have his paper on those studies.

Ann - OH

Posted by Kara Tyson (Member # 939) on :

PQ, I 'think' it came down to the fact that he associated with actors and actresses. At that time they were viewed as prostitutes. Respectable people just did not associate with those in that profession.

The only thing my great-grandmother ever said was, "we dont talk about him. That man never worked a day in his life". It seems so odd to us today because he contributed a great deal. But from his families perspective he should have been farming in MO.

Posted by lou (Member # 81) on :

Thanks Ann. I am not questioning that borrelia were found in these old museum specimens. But still undetermined in my mind is whether those borrelia were the same genetically as the ones in the Lyme, CT epidemic. You can probably see where I am going with this.

Kara, pleased that Sam didn't farm in MO like my grandfather. Twain is just about my favorite author, and every few years I re-read "Roughing it."

Posted by pq (Member # 6886) on :

Kara, oh yeah, right. Twain's job/travels as a reporter/writer necessitated contact with people across occupations; hence, getting labels ad infinitum.