I know I'll get some comments about being "fanatical about diagnosing Lyme" but I believe in the freedom of speech and this tragedy has just made me really sad.
I think the recent death of Heath Ledger might have to do with Lyme:
he had chronic insomnia mentioned something about bugs crawling on his face agitation, anxiety took ambien after ambien and still could not sleep interviewers said he always seemed restless and anxious
It's not FAIR to assume this guy was a drug addict. He was not a Hollyweird freak...he was a serious actor. I smell infection...
I think the poor guy was trying to get some RELIEF and took too many meds...LYME LYME LYME! Of course, I can only say this to fellow Lymies because everyone thinks I THINK everyone has Lyme.
He lived in NYC, near the Hamptoms...Lyme. NOT suicide, NOT drug addict...he was just trying to survive. My heart aches over this story...he "seemed" like a really good guy. Did you ever see Brokeback Mountain? He was amazing. Sooooooooooo sad.
Posted by Clarissa (Member # 4715) on :
Heath Ledger interviewed by NY Times:
``Last week I probably slept an average of two hours a night,'' he said. ``I couldn't stop thinking. My body was exhausted, and my mind was still going.'' One night he took an Ambien, which failed to work. He took a second one and fell into a stupor, only to wake up an hour later, his mind still racing.
Even as he spoke, Mr. Ledger was hard-pressed to keep still. He got up and poured more coffee. He stepped outside into the courtyard and smoked a cigarette. He shook his hair out from under its hood, put a rubber band around it, took out the rubber band, put on a hat, took off the hat, put the hood back up.
He went outside and had another cigarette. Polite and charming, he nonetheless gave off the sense that the last thing he wanted to do was delve deep into himself for public consumption. ``It can be a little distressing to have to overintellectualize yourself,'' is how he put it, a little apologetically.
Posted by kelmo (Member # 8797) on :
This was a tragic, heartbreaking news story today.
He seemed like he was a down to earth kindof guy.
I do NOT believe it was suicide. It sounds like he was exhausted. He may have accidentally taken too much of something to sleep.
What a loss, his career had such promise.
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
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Yes, very tragic.
He was a very talented actor who touched many hearts - and, I'm sure, a fine friend to family and friends who loved him.
There are few contemporary actors who have the talent and depth that he brought to us.
===================================
Lyme or not, "ambien after ambien" can be toxic and very disorientating and to anyone.
We won't have the whole picture, nor, probably, should we as the man and his family deserves privacy. However, since he, himself, recently mentioned ambien use, it certains raises questions of safety.
Ambien has some very unique and unsettling hypnotic properties. This drug has been involved in very severe outcomes in very nice and normal people. It, alone, can make one feel like bugs are crawling on them.
And, yes, any sort of underlying infection could have started the insomnia for which he sought help. Had he had such an infection and been offered only sleeping pills, how sad. How sad, in any case, that Ambien was prescribed.
Some people may do okay with it, but many horror stories forced the FDA to demand the drug company change their patient instructions last winter. (article below)
Ambien is meant to be low dose, only before bed, not daytime use . . . and for just a couple weeks, max. It requires the liver to metabolize and kidneys to excrete. Caffeine, tobacco are just a couple of substances that are contraindicated with its use.
It would be easy to forget and take too much.
And, suddenly stopping Ambien can be very dangerous.
This is a drug I took 8 or 10 years ago and I thought it was heaven sent at first as I lived downtown in a noisy place - sleep was impossible. Ambien provided the first relief in years
But, then I was literally rocketed awake, actually tossed out of bed onto the floor more wide awake than I ever imaged possible. It would be 4 a.m. and no more sleep for days - similar reactions happened. I was told to just tough it out, that I'd get used to it. .
There were no interactions as I never drank, smoked or even took any other Rx (at that time I had not yet been dx with TBI).
It was the first sleeping pill I'd ever been prescribed in my then 45 years. I took very low doses. Still, it nearly killed me. Getting back to normal was hell. My heart rhythm was affected, I would pass out or spin suddenly to the ground just crossing the street.
Yes, the lyme had me very ill. But the Ambien brought on swift and severe changes.
True, sleep is vital. Lack of sleep can kill, too. If anyone is taking ambien and doing fine, just be sure of the instructions in case anything changes. It should be well out of the blood stream before driving.
If anyone is taking it and not doing fine, be clear as to how to proceed safely and talk to your doctor before making changes.
It does require the liver detox cytochrome P-450 pathway, so anyone with excess porphryin buildup should be especially cautious. And, anyone with a QT heart rhythm condition should be aware that any sedatives can affect QT syndrome, possibly causing irregular heart rhythm.
Out of respect for Mr. Ledger, I hope his doctors might replay his last days and ask some questions about the safety of products he was given. His family deserves a thorough investigation.
Mechanism Of Action interacts w/ GABA-benzodiazepine receptor complexes
Caution Advised
[This section Lists many drugs. Just touching cursor to drug's name shows the effect. Most, as the few below are: risk of CNS depression; psychomotor impairment]
EXCERPT: The review was prompted, in part, by queries to the agency from The New York Times last year, (after)
after some users of the most widely prescribed drug, Ambien, started complaining online and to their doctors about unusual reactions ranging (from)
from fairly benign sleepwalking episodes to hallucinations, violent outbursts, nocturnal binge eating and -- most troubling of all -- driving while asleep.
--
F.D.A. WARNS OF SLEEPING PILLS' STRANGE EFFECTS
Ambien and Lunesta are among the 13 sleep medications that the F.D.A. has ordered to use strong new label warnings.
By STEPHANIE SAUL March 15, 2007
The most widely prescribed sleeping pills can cause strange behavior like driving and eating while asleep, the Food and Drug Administration said yesterday, announcing that strong new warnings will be placed on the labels of 13 drugs.
The agency also ordered the makers of the well-known drugs Ambien and Lunesta and the producers of 11 other commonly used sleeping . . .
. . . In each case the consumers had no recollection of the events, which they said had occurred after they took their pills and headed for bed. . .
- article at link above.
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[ 23. January 2008, 01:59 AM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
Posted by Dancer (Member # 11039) on :
I know everything can start looking like Lyme to us Lymies, and of course nobody knows all the details yet, but I have to say, yep, it occurred to me too.
What a tragedy.
Posted by kbholley (Member # 12938) on :
I just read about it on my homepage, and I was floored.
It mentions in the article "There was no obvious indication that he had commited suicide" according to the NYPD. He had an appointment that afternoon.
Could have been lyme or a heart attack - Because I am a firm believer that lyme does cause heart attacks. I had one at 38.
Its just really sad, and I know I will miss watching him in new movies.
My favorite one is "A Knights Tale".
Posted by heiwalove (Member # 6467) on :
whatever the cause of his death (and i no longer think everything is lyme, so i'm not sure i agree with you there. anxiety can happen without lyme. so can insomnia, and lots of other stuff too! but anything is possible, certainly..), it's a huge tragedy. i don't know why but it hit me really hard when i heard. he was only 28. one year older than me. and so dedicated to his craft, so passionate & talented.
brokeback mountain is one of my favorite films of all time. it's just.. an epic & groundbreaking work, especially for the queer community. his performance was mindblowing - a straight australian man pulling off a smalltown southern gay cowboy in the 50s/60s - and i think he'll always hold a special place in the hearts of LGBT folks everywhere because of his beautiful rendering of that character, his dedication to a deeply authentic performance.
i don't have any words. it's just beyond devastating.
Posted by CaliforniaLyme (Member # 7136) on :
I don't think it was Lyme related-
Posted by Clarissa (Member # 4715) on :
Yes, it is beyond devastating. It's hitting me really hard because the more I learn about him, the sadder and lonlier he sounded.
I guess he was suffering with pneumonia, too...so that could have played a role.
It's just truly upsetting to see such a humble rare and young talented man die in such a way (and a father, no less).
I wonder if he wanted to die, or like many of us Lymies, he just wanted some peace, health and sleep for just a few hours. I think any human can relate to that need.
I pray his family can find some peace.
Posted by aklnwlf (Member # 5960) on :
What a tragedy. He was way too young.
When I heard about his death on E channel I thought that they must have made a mistake.
Especially they just stated that he was deceased.
Am sorry for the loved ones he's left behind.
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
What a tragedy. I would think they will find it was an accidental overdose or bad combo of drugs to help him sleep.
I haven't even seen him in a movie, but could tell he was a great guy and a great actor as well. ( I have seen video clips! )
Posted by bettyg (Member # 6147) on :
i watched a 2 hr. movie, THE CLOSE ??, this am where he was a priest who performed EXORCISTS; really different movie.
yes, he was a good actor.
his talking about another young man of 25 dying last fall... Posted by LymeCFIDSMCS (Member # 13573) on :
I solved the mystery!
I just read an interview with Heath Ledger's last co-star, who was making a film with him at the time of his death. The co-star reported that Heath's doctor said Heath had walking pneumonia! Which, as many people here probably know, is caused by the bacterium chlamydia pneumonia.
c. pneumonia has been linked to heart attacks in young men.
So that, too much coffee to stay awake, and maybe stress on the heart from a sleeping pill: a recipe for disaster. Very sad.
Posted by CD57 (Member # 11749) on :
I thought it was mycoplasma pneumonia that caused walking p? No?
Posted by Aniek (Member # 5374) on :
In at least one interview he said the insomnia started when he was making the Batman movie and he attributed it to playing the character of the Joker.
I used to do theatre. Performing the part of a mentally disturbed character can be extremely stressful. Unfortunately, it can have a tremendous impact on an actor's psyche.
Posted by lymeladyinNY (Member # 10235) on :
I, too, was deeply saddened to learn of his death.
I read that he had been in Australia for Christmas, then to Europe to film a movie, and then to NYC. Somewhere along the line he contracted pneumonia.
I believe several factors played into his death - the pneumonia, the stress of travel, the psychological impact of the Joker role, too much medication to control insomnia/anxiety, and perhaps, a broken heart that he was still in the process of mending.
I think he also probably partied some of the time. Honestly, as I've looked at pictures of him, I don't think he looked very healthy.
In fact, he looked like I do when I'm toxic (grayish face, an exhausted expression, etc.).
All that aside, the sad fact is - he's gone. And I and so many others feel so bad about it.
- Lymelady
Posted by kelmo (Member # 8797) on :
It was tragic, just tragic.
I also wonder if he had a seizure from all the exhaustion and medication.
I had a friend, who also lived alone in NYC, and he suffocated due to an epileptic seizure.'
I'm glad it wasn't illegal drugs. They are pretty sure of that. Just a bad combo of the Rxs
Kelmo
Posted by jamescase20 (Member # 14124) on :
Lets not jump to conclusions here now! There is some real evidence that sparking the gaba receptors triggers a glut detox cycle in the brain. I dont remember the site, but a study suggested that. Search for it on the net. If this man was on 5 dif drugs for sleep surely that could lead to death. Ambien has a very good safety profile. Except for accidents from sleep walking, there are no reported deaths from normal dosing. Thats alot more then you can say for alot of other drugs out there, for example, ketek! Sure some people sleep walk on it. But this man didnt do that. And frankly taking ambien after ambien and ambien is kinda stupid. I dont take them like that, I never take them all the time. I usually pulse them. If I think I am having withdrawl, I take a sliver or a sliver of a benzo.
Posted by jamescase20 (Member # 14124) on :
Keebler I noticed your blocking me now. Why because I disagree with you that ambien is not safe?
Its strange you report Ambein nearly killed you, yet the only thing you can say is you couldnt sleep, did you actually check your heart rate? Or bp? The only thing ambien had to change was to warn about the sleepwalking danger, and that may not even be ambiens fault. Some people genetically predisposded to this action. As you know I regually take ambien but usually not more then 1.5 pills a day, for muscle pain due to my horrible pain, surely a narcotic is more dangerous then that! And it kept me awake during the day and allows me to sleep at night.
Posted by Clarissa (Member # 4715) on :
A young, talented man has passed away and his family needs our thoughts and prayers.
Posted by laura j (Member # 14257) on :
I had/possibly still have mycoplasma. My doctor told me that is also what causes walking pneumonia which someone mentioned above that Heath Ledger had pneumonia.
I also have had a simalar reaction to Ambien that Heath Ledger did. It would make me fall asleep for a couple of hrs. and then I'd startle awake, heart racing and couldn't go back to sleep.
I've also been on a lot of the anti-anxiety meds he was on.
He had also called a masseuse. Must have been in pain just like all of us!
Wow! Sure sounds like Lyme! Poor guy! This is so not fair.
I also tend to think everything sounds like Lyme though but a lot of this sounds like me.
[ 27. January 2008, 09:30 AM: Message edited by: laura j ]
Posted by Clarissa (Member # 4715) on :
Lauraj:
I relate to his insomnia. There were nights (pre-Lyme treatment) that I was so desperate to sleep that I would drink 2 glasses of wine, take 2 xanax, a tylenol pm, only to wake up 2-3 hours later.
I would then start exercising, watching tv, pacing, take more pm's. It was a horror show. Then, when I finally did fall asleep, my alarm clock would go off and I'd have to get up for work. I would, literally, take naps under my desk just to get through the day.
I was always anxious, had terrible OCD, agitated and, despite my shyness, also picked a very social career, Advertising.
No one ever knew how much emotional sadness I experienced... (except maybe my mother and best friend)I would think acting would be an excellent outlet for all of those emotions.
Unfortuntaly, we'll never know, and he'll never get a chance to be treated...for whatever it was that truly ailed him.
I can't get it out of my head.
Posted by laura j (Member # 14257) on :
Hi Clarissa,
You sound a lot like me only when I couldn't sleep I was usually also dry heaving and could barely stand. It hit me very fast and I could no longer work and had to try to take care of a 1 yr. old.
I needed a lot of help taking care of her at that time which was difficult because everyone close to me works full-time and my poor mother had to come running home from work to help me many times because I thought I would pass out or die while home alone with her.
Anyway, enough of my sob story.
Like I said before, I now tend to think everyone has Lyme. I don't know if you're familiar with "The Wiggles" (kids' tv show). But Greg Page, the yellow wiggle, had to step down from his role because he has orthostatic intolerance, which I also have, that can be caused by Lyme.
I've tried to find ways to contact him to tell him to go see a LLMD. My husband thinks I'm nuts.
It is sad that we'll never know about Heath Ledger. I guess you and I are lucky that we know what we have and are being treated.
Laura
Posted by Clarissa (Member # 4715) on :
I agree. I've said many times on this board. Ignorance is NOT bliss when it comes to TBD's.
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
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While we really hope no one with TBI goes untreated, it's important to realize that not everything is lyme or TBI.
Other infections can be very serious, including pneumonia.
It's exceedingly sad yet may help others seek prompt treatment or be aware of complications of various infections and medications. Air travel, too, is very hard on anyone with lung infections. Prior consult may help.
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Posted by Clarissa (Member # 4715) on :
You're absolutely right, Keebler. Our bodies are so complicated.
I think maybe Lymies are just extra sensitive to others who suffer because we are 'forced' to hit rock bottom and can truly empathize with emotional and physical suffering.
It's just very sad.
Posted by Clarissa (Member # 4715) on :
Hi, saw this late but I had to throw in my 2 cents worth.
The first thing my LLMd told me was that everyone has been bitten. We have to remember that not just tick, but fleas, mosquitoes and all biting insects carry LD.
This is NOT far fetched at all.
Two quotes, one from a famous author: "If all Americans were tested for Lyme it would bankrupt every insurance company in the country".
Famous LLMD "ALL symptoms of psychiatric illness, ALL are Lyme"
Lyme is probably what creates most everything from cancer to Alzheimer's, I believe it is that common and does sound like he had suspicious symptoms of it for sure.
Posted by MysteryGirl44 (Member # 10201) on :
So sad Posted by randibear (Member # 11290) on :
if you look at the actual drugs he was taking, my word, no wonder he overdosed. i'm not saying he was a drug addict at all, i'm just saying i can truly understand what happened.
what a waste.......
but it also makes an interesting point -- movie stars and famous people get medicine thrown at them, the more the better.
we can't even get antibiotics......
that's what's worse........
Posted by Clarissa (Member # 4715) on :
I look at the drugs he was taking and it brings me back to my original suspicions...TBD'S:
Oxycontin=for PAIN (plus he was getting massages) Vicodin=for PAIN xanax= ANXIETY Restoril/Lunesta/Ambien=INSOMNIA
If I were to sum of the main three symptoms of my TBD diagnosis it would be: phsical pain, anxiety and chronic insomnia.
Does anyone see a pattern here? The poor man was suffering and self-medicating. I just feel this in my gut.
![[Frown]](frown.gif)