Comeon Kara, You're becomming as prolific as tequeslady...
or have I got that reversed....silly me!
Don't forget my smiling icon now!
Posted by lymedad (Member # 8074) on :
Took a look and .......????
Posted by tequeslady (Member # 6832) on :
Oh, I don't know Lymedad... I don't particularly like the idea of our military in our streets, schools and homes.
I guess it's just an old fashioned idea.
Posse Comitatus still exists, you know.
Posted by tequeslady (Member # 6832) on :
Posted by tequeslady (Member # 6832) on :
Who is Kara, Tony?
quote:Originally posted by lymie tony z: Comeon Kara, You're becomming as prolific as tequeslady...
or have I got that reversed....silly me!
Don't forget my smiling icon now!
Posted by MagicAcorn (Member # 8786) on :
You know in Northern Ireland back when I was a teenager if it wasn't for the English Army protecting the Catholics and walking them to school they wouldn't have been educated.
They stoned school children, and threw molatov cocktails at the wee ones for g-ds sake.
Sometimes the military can be a blessing.
It is not the same world you grew up in. The world has gotten smaller and the hatred has come here.
I would love to turn back the clock but that is not possible.
Posted by lymie tony z (Member # 5130) on :
Stay in hiding....
Posted by MagicAcorn (Member # 8786) on :
Thanks Tony...I'm really feeling the love.
Posted by tequeslady (Member # 6832) on :
Well, acorn... this is America. Here in America, we have Posse Comitatus that is supposed to prohibit the military from being used on its own people.
We have a National Guard and police force for that.
How do you get that the world has gotten smaller? It is true that we have done and are doing some stupid things that is making our country more violent. Perhaps, before we allow the military to start patrolling our streets, we should address the causes of the problems.
I, for one, do not want a Police State.
quote:Originally posted by MagicAcorn: You know in Northern Ireland back when I was a teenager if it wasn't for the English Army protecting the Catholics and walking them to school they wouldn't have been educated.
They stoned school children, and threw molatov cocktails at the wee ones for g-ds sake.
Sometimes the military can be a blessing.
It is not the same world you grew up in. The world has gotten smaller and the hatred has come here.
I would love to turn back the clock but that is not possible.
Posted by MagicAcorn (Member # 8786) on :
The internet has made the world smaller.
I didn't contradict you...I just gave an example where soldiers were protectors that's all.
I'm American by choice not birth and just thought I'd give another view.
Posted by MagicAcorn (Member # 8786) on :
quote:Originally posted by tequeslady: Well, acorn... this is America. Here in America, we have Posse Comitatus that is supposed to prohibit the military from being used on its own people.
We have a National Guard and police force for that.
How do you get that the world has gotten smaller? It is true that we have done and are doing some stupid things that is making our country more violent. Perhaps, before we allow the military to start patrolling our streets, we should address the causes of the problems.
I, for one, do not want a Police State.
quote:Originally posted by MagicAcorn: You know in Northern Ireland back when I was a teenager if it wasn't for the English Army protecting the Catholics and walking them to school they wouldn't have been educated.
They stoned school children, and threw molatov cocktails at the wee ones for g-ds sake.
Sometimes the military can be a blessing.
It is not the same world you grew up in. The world has gotten smaller and the hatred has come here.
I would love to turn back the clock but that is not possible.
And tequeslady just so you know the National Guard is the oldest component of the Armed Forces of the United States and one of the nation's longest-enduring institutions currently serving in the Middle East. So what military is it you are afraid of patrolling our streets?
MA
Posted by tequeslady (Member # 6832) on :
Last I knew, the National Guard was under control of each state's governor.
Why do I not want the U.S. and other countries active militaries patrolling our streets? Answer... I do not want a Police State!
Do you?
quote:Originally posted by MagicAcorn: And tequeslady just so you know the National Guard is the oldest component of the Armed Forces of the United States and one of the nation's longest-enduring institutions currently serving in the Middle East. So what military is it you are afraid of patrolling our streets?
MA
Posted by Softballmom (Member # 6235) on :
Tesque,
If it ever got to that you really wouldn't want to come to my neck of the woods.
Not only would you have the military but also a bunch of rednecks running around with loaded weapons.
Posted by MagicAcorn (Member # 8786) on :
The National Guard is the military and the oldest branch of it. Do a Google search if you must but I think that is pretty basic knowledge. Who do you think are risking their lives for you in Iraq right now?
I'll also educate you on Posse Comitatus it is a Resurrection Era Criminal Law that involves search and siezures by the military. It has absolutely nothing to do with what you are describing here.
Trying to deflect another's comment by asking another question instead of answering the one posed you just goes to show me that you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.
Posted by MagicAcorn (Member # 8786) on :
What other countries military are coming here to patrol our streets? Where do you get this stuff from?
Posted by lymedad (Member # 8074) on :
Ms teques,
I'm trying to keep all this straight.
In the thread entitled, "An Incredible Coincidence", you were concerned that our military would not or could not respond to air attacks on Washington DC in a timely manner.
Now in this thread, "Operation Urban Warrior", you are concerned about our military being prepared to fight a "foreign" enemy on our soil.
It would seem that we need to be prepared for all contingencies, both in the air and on the ground.
It seems to me that do otherwise would be completely foolish.
It's my opinion that the real goal of our military is peace through intimidation.
Preparedness is the single most important function that we should expect from our military.
There is a statement in the oath of enlistment that all those who serve in uniform swear to and it goes something like,
"I will defend my country against all enemies, foreign and domestic"
To assume that our enemy won't come from within our borders is again foolhardy.
Posted by tequeslady (Member # 6832) on :
quote:Originally posted by lymedad: Ms teques,
I'm trying to keep all this straight.
In the thread entitled, "An Incredible Coincidence", you were concerned that our military would not or could not respond to air attacks on Washington DC in a timely manner.
I find it very coincidental that our government was running "drills" with planes to "simulate" crashing into the very buildings that were crashed into, on the same day and near the same time, that the real crashes occurred.
quote:Now in this thread, "Operation Urban Warrior", you are concerned about our military being prepared to fight a "foreign" enemy on our soil.
No. Operation Urban Warrior very much appears to be planning for Martial Law here in this country. In other words, I think their training is for us.
quote:It would seem that we need to be prepared for all contingencies, both in the air and on the ground.
It seems to me that do otherwise would be completely foolish.
It's my opinion that the real goal of our military is peace through intimidation.
Preparedness is the single most important function that we should expect from our military.
There is a statement in the oath of enlistment that all those who serve in uniform swear to and it goes something like,
"I will defend my country against all enemies, foreign and domestic"
Yes, and as a patriotic American, I would think you would be concerned about what certain individuals are doing in your own government.
Letting this administration continue plans to suspend the Constitution and put us under martial law is what is "foolhardy". That is what I believe is happening.
Last time I checked, overthrowing the Constitution was considered rather treasonous. Do you think someone that does that is a friend or foe of this country?
I hope this answers your questions, Mr. Dad. Looking forward to your reply....
Posted by lymedad (Member # 8074) on :
teques,
I understood your points about your 9/11 coincidence theory. My point was that you seemed to be on opposing sides of the same issue.
Your Quotes:
"An Incredible Coincidence"
quote:Number two, why didn't our military intercept the planes that crashed into the WTC and the Pentagon?
quote:Hours? It takes "hours" to respond to something like 9-11?
These statements appear to question why our military can't protect our country in a time of attack.
Yet in this thread you state:
quote:Oh, I don't know Lymedad... I don't particularly like the idea of our military in our streets, schools and homes.
The two don't seem to be consistent. Either you want our military to protect us here and abroad or you don't.
All that aside, the exercise you've highlighted, Urban Warrior, is not a new phenomenon.
The US Military has been conducting realistic training for many years here in the U.S. The training is usually based on the type of battle that has the highest probability of occurring.
We do large scale armor and artillery training at Fort Irwin here in California. The high probability that we might need to fight in a country that has a desert environment is quite real. (Seems that training served us well in both Desert Storm and Iraqi Freedom).
Our military war planners appear to believe that the next generation of wars will probably take place in more urban areas throughout the world.
So it stands to reason for us to train in those environments, say in cities similar to Tehran or Sol or Bejing, etc., etc.
If you will read the information on the website you used as the example for your martial law conspiracy you'll notice that the USMC conducted their training in Oakland where:
"The urban combat phase was designed to prepare Marines for the type of conflict they may encounter during 21st century battles in foregin lands".
Finally, I personally have a lot more faith, not only with regular citizens of our country, but also in our men and women in uniform to know when and if they need to worry about GWB or any other president overthrowing the constitution, declaring martial law and setting himself up as dictator.
I also have confidence in our military leaders, folks like Tommy Franks and Wesley Clark come instantly to mind. Just because you wear the uniform of your country does not make you brain-dead to the threat of unlawful orders.
Posted by lymie tony z (Member # 5130) on :
Sorry Acorn...
I was in a really foul mood last night...it had nothing to do with you...MY BAD...
I'm still in a funk cuz of all the negative conjecture and possibly my monthly lyme cycle...
No excuse,
Welcome to the offnut board.......(small attempt at humor)....
Posted by tequeslady (Member # 6832) on :
It's easy, Mr. Dad...
The military is not to be used to police its citizenry. It's called Posse Comitatus.
I asked about the fighter jets because I thought possibly one of you ex-military guys might be able to provide some insight into why they did not intercept any of the planes. Especially, the one that crashed into the pentagon, since this should have been in restricted air space.
Posted by Softballmom (Member # 6235) on :
Had military blew up these American civilian planes. We would be having a different discussion.
"Bush acted to quickly and took hundreds of American lives. They could have done so-n-so to avoid this tradgedy. He is a monster!"
I can hear it very clearly. This is not sarcasm it is my personal opinion.
Also Katrina is a perfect exaple. The prsident did not act quickly enouph, however, what if he had imposed marshal law in NO to stop violence and leuding.
Again I believe we would be hearing a different complaint today.
Posted by tequeslady (Member # 6832) on :
There is a huge gap between declaring Martial Law (and thus suspending our Constitution)) and:
1. Ensuring the $ that Congress allocated to address the levys were indeed spent on them. The ports are critical and I believe would be considered in the realm of protecting our "national defense".
2. Flying in food and water in a timely manner for the hurricane victims.
quote:Originally posted by Softballmom:
Also Katrina is a perfect exaple. The prsident did not act quickly enouph, however, what if he had imposed marshal law in NO to stop violence and leuding.
Again I believe we would be hearing a different complaint today.
Posted by MagicAcorn (Member # 8786) on :
Tony Z
No problem at all. Thanks for the welcome
MA
Posted by tequeslady (Member # 6832) on :
Posse Comitatus
CHAP. 263 - An act making appropriations for the support of the Army for the fiscal year ending June thirtieth, eighteen hundred and seventy-nine, and for other purposes.
SEC. 15. From and after the passage of this act it shall not be lawful to employ any part of the Army of the United States, as a posse comitatus, or otherwise, for the purpose of executing the laws, except in such cases and under such circumstances as such employment of said force may be expressly authorized by the Constitution or by act of Congress; and no money appropriated by this act shall be used to pay any of the expenses incurred in the employment of any troops in violation of this section And any person willfully violating the provisions of this section shall be deemed guilty of a misdemeanor and on conviction thereof shall be punished by fine not exceeding ten thousand dollars or imprisonment not exceeding two years or by both such fine and imprisonment.
10 U.S.C. (United States Code) 375
Sec. 375. Restriction on direct participation by military personnel:
The Secretary of Defense shall prescribe such regulations as may be necessary to ensure that any activity (including the provision of any equipment or facility or the assignment or detail of any personnel) under this chapter does not include or permit direct participation by a member of the Army, Navy, Air Force, or Marine Corps in a search, seizure, arrest, or other similar activity unless participation in such activity by such member is otherwise authorized by law.
18 U.S.C. 1385
Sec. 1385. Use of Army and Air Force as posse comitatus
Whoever, except in cases and under circumstances expressly authorized by the Constitution or Act of Congress, willfully uses any part of the Army or the Air Force as a posse comitatus or otherwise to execute the laws shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than two years, or both.
quote:Originally posted by MagicAcorn: The National Guard is the military and the oldest branch of it. Do a Google search if you must but I think that is pretty basic knowledge. Who do you think are risking their lives for you in Iraq right now?
I'll also educate you on Posse Comitatus it is a Resurrection Era Criminal Law that involves search and siezures by the military. It has absolutely nothing to do with what you are describing here.
Trying to deflect another's comment by asking another question instead of answering the one posed you just goes to show me that you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.
Posted by MagicAcorn (Member # 8786) on :
That's exactly what I stated a search and seizure law...having absolutely nothing to do with what you are talking about.
Thanks for the copy and paste job now everyone knows I'm not just spouting off.
Posted by Mo (Member # 2863) on :
I'm not reading that as only having to do with search and seizure.
I appreciate seeing a copy of the text, Tequeslady.
Mo
Posted by lymedad (Member # 8074) on :
teques,
One subject at a time, at least for me, I'm old.
Operation Urban Warrior is the subject of this thread.
In one of your latest posts you state:
quote:Operation Urban Warrior very much appears to be planning for Martial Law here in this country. In other words, I think their training is for us.
Please indicate for us all where on the website
(www.defenselink.mil/specials/urbanwarrior/)
you find anything about this exercise having anything to do with our troops being used against their own countrymen.
Do you have any idea what goes on at virtually every military installation throughout the United States??
In case you don't know, we train for war . That is all that gets done, day after day after day.
We train so that we are able to fight our country's wars successfully. We train for as many high probability contengencies as possible.
If we are to believe your "martial law" theory, then our military has been preparing for a constitutional takeover since the late 1700's.
Have you ever heard of
Top Gun - Naval Warfare Training Red Flag - USAF Warfare Training National Training Center at Fort Irwin - USA Desert Warfare Training Camp Pendelton - USMC Warfare Training
How do you expect to receive the protection you deserve from your country's military if they do not train properly?
I'm beginning to see a pattern here teques. I'm concerned that you may becoming just a little paranoid. I'm not judging you here 'mam , just thinking out loud.
Not every news story or website containing information about our military is advocating the overthrow of the constitution.
Posted by tequeslady (Member # 6832) on :
Not one of the others you named was for "urban warfare". I have been unable to pull up any of the articles on their web site, so since you asked for information from that website, we'll just have to look at this:
"A U.S Marine from the 1st Battalion, 5th Marines runs for cover during the urban combat phase of Operation Urban Warrior March 16 in Oakland, Calif. The three-phased operation tested Marines' ability to provide humanitarian assistance in an urban environment, respond to threats of chemical and biological weapons, and restore order after a state of civil unrest."
It is the "civil unrest" part that concerns me. By their own admission, they have been training in various cities in our country. Mock training they call it. I personally find it worrisome, especially in light of the seeming move of this administration in disregarding the Constitution and their talk of using the military (against the Posse Comitatus Act) for civil unrest situations in the U.S.
I doubt they would come right out and admit that they are being trained for use against U.S. citizens, but you never know. The boldness with which several government groups have these days in their statements is amazing to me. I wish I could access the articles they list on their site, but I haven't been able to, thus far.
You are of course free to believe whatever you choose. So am I. I guess only time will tell for sure who is right.
P.S. I am also noting a pattern with you Mr. Dad. I am concerned that you are illiciting a "head in sand" complex. Not judging... just thinking out loud...
Posted by lymedad (Member # 8074) on :
ms teques,
Touche.
FYI: I've been told on several occasions from those I've worked for and by those who worked for me that;
I have my head up where the sun doesn't shine, but I've never been told I had it in the sand.
First time for everything.
Posted by lymedad (Member # 8074) on :
Ms teques,
quote:Not one of the others you named was for "urban warfare".
My bad.
The USMC base at Camp Pendleton has a very extensive area that is used for urban warfare training. (I've been there, not taking part in the training, but as an observer).
The USA post at Fort Bragg, NC has a very extensive area set aside for urban warfare training. (I've seen this one too).
Even the USN Seabee base at Port Hueneme Calif has a mock town that they use for urban warfare training.
I play golf about 5 times a year on the golf course there and the 18th hole borders their training area.
In response to your reading of the caption to the photo,
quote:""A U.S Marine from the 1st Battalion, 5th Marines runs for cover during the urban combat phase of Operation Urban Warrior March 16 in Oakland, Calif. The three-phased operation tested Marines' ability to provide humanitarian assistance in an urban environment, respond to threats of chemical and biological weapons, and restore order after a state of civil unrest."
Would you consider the possibility that the "state of civil unrest" might be referring to an urban operation outside the continental United States; say in Tehran or Baghdad or Islamabad or Havana or Sol or Bejing, or..... or.....?
I'm puzzled why you think that because the US military needs to prepare itself for the wartime contingency of highest probability, that you would think that the only purpose would be to overthrow our government.
One last thought on this one, it's a hypothetical.
If you were going to mass a bunch of armed people together and train them with the sole purpose of overthrowing your own government, would you build a website and advertise the fact????
Posted by Mo (Member # 2863) on :
I have to read more about this...
but I had to comment that absolutely we have a great many publicly announced programs we can look to that are NOT as they seem, or as they are portrayed..intended to be used by the administration
....with damaging underlying intent and pure negative impact, yet presented as necessary. Misrepresention -- propaganda --
many already seen in hindsight, well thought out, well planned by the administration and the Pentagon (they work in partnership with main stream media based on ownershiop and their interests), then syphoned through coorperate owned main stream media, websites, what have you.
Propaganda is running wild here...traditionally it is against the 'enemy', but here is is to control the messages that reach the public and keep them behind the War and other big government interests.
These interests are shared by the coorperations owning 99% of the media..as they stand to garner billions in special interests.. so they then must not conduct true journalism (which is looking at all sides and probing as the heart of a true Democracy REQUIRES).. as that would mean investigating and questioning the mouth that feeds them.
Instead we have 'echo chambers' for thise in power.
Media is a major WMD.
One of the most frightening facts of our time IMO. The public must challange the propaganda.
I'm just adding a general comment.
I haven't read enough on this specific topic yet to comment on it, but surely jusy cuz they say it's so does not necessarily mean so at all.
Mo
Posted by lymie tony z (Member # 5130) on :
Exactly...
Just cuz you say it is so, after drawing paranoid conclusions and attaching anti-american propaganda to purely hypothetical and delusional worst case scenario don't make it so...
Our military is practicing urban warfare cuz...gee we're fighting a war in an urban setting.... go figure....
Posted by lymedad (Member # 8074) on :
Mo,
You wrote:
quote:....with damaging underlying intent and pure negative impact, yet presented as necessary. Misrepresention -- propaganda --
many already seen in hindsight, well thought out, well planned by the administration and the Pentagon (they work in partnership with main stream media based on ownershiop and their interests), then syphoned through coorperate owned main stream media, websites, what have you.
Propaganda is running wild here...traditionally it is against the 'enemy', but here is is to control the messages that reach the public and keep them behind the War and other big government interests.
These interests are shared by the coorperations owning 99% of the media..as they stand to garner billions in special interests.. so they then must not conduct true journalism (which is looking at all sides and probing as the heart of a true Democracy REQUIRES).. as that would mean investigating and questioning the mouth that feeds them.
Please provide examples of the propaganda that is "running wild".
Posted by tequeslady (Member # 6832) on :
WHERE is the anti-American propaganda that was "attached", Tony? I am more than a little angry at your insinuation!
Put up or shut up.
quote:Originally posted by lymie tony z: Exactly...
Just cuz you say it is so, after drawing paranoid conclusions and attaching anti-american propaganda to purely hypothetical and delusional worst case scenario don't make it so...
Our military is practicing urban warfare cuz...gee we're fighting a war in an urban setting.... go figure....
Posted by Mo (Member # 2863) on :
OK Lymedad,
But I'm getting a little tired of doing your homework for you, and then you don't want to read it.
You all asked for examples of what I was referring to regarding Israeli ethnic cleansing of Palastine, War Crimes.. I posted an article that had references in the content - and noone replied.. (exept LabRat in usual protest of cut-n-paste)
So.......if I post examples of propaganda, I hope someone will reply.
Basically, you can also find it in ALL mainstream, coorperate owned media..and it's history epecially in the past few years. ..because the owners are beholden to the government and lobbied the FCC for decreased restriction on coorperate ownership..
therefore, those that control our 'news' have a clear conflict of interest.
They want big federal bucks, so they will not put up journalism that contradicts those in power.
So, we have an 'echo chamber' of the government, and no in depth probing for truth. (which is what journalism in a free society is SUPPOSED to be, a look at all sides of an issue so the public can make an informed decision)
i.e. In the run up to the War, there was little to no main-stream challenge to whether Saddam really had WMD, and in what few places there was, the folks were roundly silenced.
Basically, if you want to be informed, you cannot rely on main stream media, you have to be a critical thinker and look to other sources.
I also think the media is at fault as much if not more than the current administrators for the mess we are all in.
It is fact that the Pentagon worked with media experts and the White House and have formed a well oiled machine.
Deals and relationships and chages in the system and regs can be traced back to the Reagan admin and has been successfully picked up and gained momentum in this admin.
This has been a process, not serendipity.. a plan that has been VERY effective.
It was essential they had ONE message coming forth to the American public as part of the strategy to go into Iraq. They needed the public behind it. Media outlets fell in line due to controls at the top, 99% of those outlets are owned by coorperations who profit from War and/or government domestic policies under Bush.. They simply re-inforced that one narrow view. We did not see or hear what the rest of the World did, still do not.
If you are open to looking at proof and not stuck in hearing only what you want to hear, it is easily recognized with an open/critical mind.
Mo
Posted by lymedad (Member # 8074) on :
Mo,
quote:But I'm getting a little tired of doing your homework for you, and then you don't want to read it.
It's not that I don't want to read it, really, I'm just looking for facts not liberal rhetoric.
I read and re-read your last homework assignment and truthfully I think you missed the question completely.
In response to your Feb 25 post I asked,
quote:Please provide examples of the propaganda that is "running wild".
I can't, for the life of me, find one example of propaganda "running wild" in your answers.
I read lots of personal opinions but no hard facts. Facts like who, what, where and when.
You cite things like,
quote:ALL mainstream media
Do you mean every single media outlet except LINK TV? Which media outlet failed to report what they thought was the truth at the time they reported it?
quote:those that control our 'news'
Who are "those"??
quote:in what few places there was, the folks were roundly silenced
What few places?? Who were they that in your opinion knew the truth but were silenced? Who silenced them. When were they silenced??
quote:It is fact that the Pentagon worked with media experts and the White House and have formed a well oiled machine.
To say something is a "fact" without specific evidence is opinion not examples of propaganda.
quote:Deals and relationships and chages in the system and regs can be traced back to the Reagan admin and has been successfully picked up and gained momentum in this admin.
What deals? Relationships between who? What changes in the system and regs? What has picked up momentum? Again rhetoric no stated facts.
quote:99% of those outlets are owned by coorperations who profit from War and/or government domestic policies under Bush..
Which outlets? 99% of what number?? You can't just throw percentages out as fact without stating the numbers that go into the formula to calculate the percentage. These aren't facts, they're your opinion.
quote:If you are open to looking at proof and not stuck in hearing only what you want to hear, it is easily recognized with an open/critical mind.
I'm trying to be open minded, but I need facts of your proof.
Believe me I don't hear what I want to hear when it comes to the subject of this thread. All I hear is rhetoric, inneuendo, mumbo-jumbo.
This whole thread started out with teques providing a link to a military informational website that highlighted a training exercise code named "Urban Warrior".
From that came some off-the-wall idea that the U.S. military, specifically the United States Marine Corps, was training in Oakland California in what was inferred to be a training scenario for martial law.
Some of the quotes included:
quote:this is America. Here in America, we have Posse Comitatus that is supposed to prohibit the military from being used on its own people.
quote:Perhaps, before we allow the military to start patrolling our streets, we should address the causes of the problems. I, for one, do not want a Police State.
quote:Why do I not want the U.S. and other countries active militaries patrolling our streets? Answer... I do not want a Police State!
quote:I have to read more about this...
but I had to comment that absolutely we have a great many publicly announced programs we can look to that are NOT as they seem, or as they are portrayed..intended to be used by the administration
I tried to outline the fact that urban warfare training was not a new thing, the military trains for any number of contingencies. This particular training exercise was for a very high probability contingency, that of urban warfare.
From there we got to the whole administration is controlling the press, the military, the American people through "wild running" propaganda.
All I asked for was proof of the statements made, not rhetoric.
Posted by Mo (Member # 2863) on :
OK -
but then I just asked that you consider them..
I then went into an 'overview' of my own..
I can provide references, but hope that they will be addressed and not dismissed as 'liberal' whatever..
because in my experience no matter where I source from ...that is the response I get here in OT over the long haul if it differs in the poster's opinion..
I will give you the benefit of the doubt, tho -- and I will back up my own overview with tangible references to consider.
HOWEVER, to be open minded means to give creedence to references and content. Rather than to dismiss all but conservative sources.
Agreed? To look at content or references?
I will not be able to find sources from coorperate media on this... for quite obvious reasons of conflict of interest...
You're right, I guess it should be in a separate thread.
Mo
Posted by lymedad (Member # 8074) on :
Mo,
I'd just like to see opinion separated from fact.
If a person is going to make claims, they ought to have to back them up with historical facts.
The continued copy/paste style of debate or exchange of ideas is stale. For every liberal source of a story there's a counter source from the right.
I just can't see where any of this can be considered an exchange of ideas. It's more an exchange of newspaper articles.
I've used quotes from a couple of conservative editorials in my posts and they were immediately dismissed as untrue or irrelevant.
No problem.
If I make a statement that I believe to be fact I will do the research on my own and present historical evidence of same.
If I choose to state my opinion, I'll state it as opinion.
I think these types of forums are here for the exchange of ideas, opinions and thoughts.
I don't foresee my changing your mind and I can't see the possibility of your changing mine, but you never know.
I also know that regardless of some opinions on this board;
the sky is not falling;
this country survived Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton, it will survive Geoge Bush;
the Kansas City Royals suck;
and we still live in the greatest country God ever saw fit to bless.
[ 26. February 2006, 03:40 AM: Message edited by: lymedad ]
Posted by tequeslady (Member # 6832) on :
I'm exchanging ideas, lymedaddy... you do it your way... i'll do it mine.
cheers.........
Posted by lymie tony z (Member # 5130) on :
The constant bantering of articles and opinions of whoever in the news is precisely why I don't bother posting same...
I read it all, digest it, and formulate my own "opinions" and post them.
Cuz believe it or not I am a free thinking american citizen of reasonable intelligence with access to more than just mainstream media.
I don't need any backup!
By the way Teques...I REALLY don't care how angry you are... My opinions are just that...not insinuations... But I can call them FACTS if you want!
That's what y'all do...
Fact...y'all don't know every NY'rs thoughts... Fact... " " " anything about fighting a war....
Fact...If ya noticed...cuz of the mosque bombing and potential civil war...their just could be some CIVIL unrest that the military trains for...
Fact...Y'alls constant bickering about wanting to live in an idealistic world is totally Unrealistic...
Y'all worry about a world order...but an idealistic world would be just that...so their is a contradiction in your basic logic...
I could go on and on...IMO...and be totally entitled to it as y"all are....
I choose not to paper hang...I like to be concise.
the zman
[ 26. February 2006, 07:46 PM: Message edited by: lymie tony z ]
Posted by tequeslady (Member # 6832) on :
Let me see... I choose... NOT.
Well, you said believe it or not....
Posted by lymie tony z (Member # 5130) on :
Oh My oh my... Was that an insult?
How childish is that! How rude you truly are...that's why I'm not gonna use tlady anymore...just teuques or T...maybe a small t...
Lady does"nt seem appropriate anymore!
IMO Posted by HaplyCarlessdave (Member # 413) on :
Here's some information on media reform--there is indeed a huge problem. The net is, to some extent tending to offset this media control, but is susceptible to what I call "info-jamming", and I have no doubt that all over the net, perhaps even among us, are certain corporate-dictatorship-supported "posters", spammers, and assorted hacks wgose mission it is to discredit the postings which tend to open peoples' eyes to the truth!
Some of these might appear at the outset to be, say, rather 'leftist', and contain some worthwhile ideas, but whose posts are insidiously edited to discredit the most thoughtful sources.
Yes, this is, um, "pretty paranoid", certain people --and of course any of the "fake net activists" I am hypothesizing must be present by now are included among these "certain people"-- will undoubtedly say.. But the low cost and high ...'effectiveness'... of such a ploy just about ensures that it IS happening! So we must always communicate with this in mind.
So now you're asking, could DaveS be one of these? --but I trust, if you look at my postings, that despite my tendency for trying to strongly emphasize the faults or insidious motives of corporate dictartorship mouthpieces, or the extent to which we've all been mislead by such, I am in fact sincere and have no ulterior motives, and do occasionally bring up some things worth thinking about (such as this, perhaps...).
In any case we should start a new thread, and have it be a little more single-topic! I'll leave that to someone else, since I must catch some z's at this point....
DaveS
Posted by tequeslady (Member # 6832) on :
Tony,
Your attempt at trying to insult me by changing my lymenet handle in all kinds of ways, does not bother me at all.
You'll have to try harder to drive me off.
Here's another thread on this topic that has news stories on apparent urban warfare training. It appears that the government website has restricted access of the articles listed on their website from the general public.
So, what did you think?
Posted by lymie tony z (Member # 5130) on :
Hey t it was'nt an attempt...
No more so than you referring to lymedad as daddy.
Pot calling the kettle black again!
I would'nt think of running you off...
Where else could I get my daily ration of paranoia? zman
Posted by tequeslady (Member # 6832) on :
STILL, not debating the topic of the thread, Tony?
By the way, I didn't call LymeDad, daddy, until AFTER he started changing MY handle.
Cheers.
You are so very transparent, Tony. It's quite funny.
I am posting news articles, most from the major media. Are you calling the major media paranoid? Are you calling actual government documents, paranoid?
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