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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » japanese knotweed/resveratrol

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Author Topic: japanese knotweed/resveratrol
5dana8
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I am looking into this herb: Japanese knotweed/resveratrol

I am not going to take it by its self but in the combo that is recommended in the healing book.

And wondered if anyone had any experience's good or bad in long term use of this herb?

I did a search & didn't come up with much.

It is in Buhners core protocal...but with so little information wondering if this one is really necessary.

P.s. Please,Lets keep to the subject or just S.O.B [Smile]

Many thanks
dana

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5dana8

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jo3
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Hi,
I just started taking it according to Buhner's book- I've recently lost my LLMD and figure I should do something! I also bought Andrographis,Cat's Claw, Artemisin and something else that I can't remember. I think you have to take it up to a year so the beginning effects must take a little while to settle in. What concerns me is the bill- I bought a 30 capsule online from Amazon which, with shipping and handling, cost me about $17.00 I checked out my local herb place to see if they have some of this stuff- the Resveratrol is a big bottle but I don't know if it's the correct dose of whatever he says works.
Good luck!

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5dana8
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Thanks jo3 [Smile]

I appreciate the feedback

Let me know how you are doing

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5dana8

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luvs2ride
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Hello,

I am just starting too. I was not able to find Andrographis or Japanese Knotweed. I will be doing this in combination with Minocycline.

I'm hopeful. I have the Cat's Claw and Sarsparilla (similax) and have started them. I'm in extra pain today but don't know if it could be the herbs. I only started them two nights ago.

I have a Chinese medicine man (he is not chinese, he treats with TCM) who is looking to see if he can order them for me.

Any suggestions where to buy?

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5dana8
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hey Luvs2ride

In the book it say to get the reseratrol/knotweed
at source naturals

tablet form is www.myvitanet.com

I still haven't ordered anything yet. I like to research everything like 20 times just to make sure, before I proceed with anything.

The andrographis in the book is suggested to get in one pound bulk at raintree. But no way am I buying a pound of it .I would like a bottle just to take for a test drive.

I'll let you know if I find out anything on this.

Take care [Smile]
dana

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Thereminator
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For the best prices,order them online from Getnutri,Eastherb,or Vitacost. Alan

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liz28
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The big problem with resveratol is you need large amounts, supposedly, to get the beneficial effects.

According to Ray Kurzweil's recent book, you need 200mg 2x/day. But on Vitacost, resveratol from a decent source is 16mg per tablet. You probably would want to check these numbers (and I love the company listed here, this isn't to slam them):

http://www.vitacost.com/JarrowFormulasResveratrolSynergy

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Carol in PA
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As I read the book, I turned down page corners, underlined the items I needed, and made check marks next to important info.

Then I made a list of what I needed, with suggested brands and potencies, from the book.

I compared brands and prices of each item at iHerb.com, bookmarking each herb so that I could find it later when I was ready to order.
(My bookmarked list of supplements under "iHerb" keeps getting longer....)

Here are the items I decided on.
(So you can compare with other sources.)

Cat's Claw, from the Raintree site
http://www.rain-tree.com/

Sarsaparilla Root, Nature's Way, 425 mg, 100 Capsules
SRP: $9.49
Price: $5.00
http://www.iherb.com/store/ProductDetails.aspx?c=Herbs&pid=NWY-16700

Devil's Claw, Natural Factors, 400 mg, 90 Caps
SRP: $17.95
Price: $9.02
http://www.iherb.com/store/Search.aspx?c=Herbs&kw=Devil's%20Claw

Siberian Eleuthero Root, Nature's Way, 410 mg, 180 Caps
SRP: $11.99
Price: $6.50
http://www.iherb.com/store/ProductDetails.aspx?c=Herbs&pid=NWY-13508

Resveratrol, Source Naturals, 40 mg, 60 Tablets
SRP: $19.98
Price: $11.19 (Reduced to $10.99 in Jan. '08)
http://www.iherb.com/store/ProductDetails.aspx?c=Herbs&pid=SNS-01011

Andrographis, Planetary Formulas, 400 mg, 120 Tablets
SRP: $16.98
iHerb Price: $9.51
http://www.iherb.com/store/ProductDetails.aspx?c=Herbs&pid=PTF-10488


When you order at iHerb, you will get a discount at the checkout. (I usually get 10% to 12%.)
Discounts on shipping vary throughout the year.
========

This is how I decided how many bottles of each thing to buy.
Next to each herb on my written list, I wrote down Buhner's suggested maximum dose per day.

Then I figured out how many capsules I would need per week, at the maximum dose.

I decided to order enough for eight weeks, because I was aiming for the maximum discount when I ordered.

So, daily number of capsules, multiplied by 7 days, multiplied by 8 weeks.

On the list, I had written the number of capsules per bottle.
I divided the total number of capsules I would need for 8 weeks by the number of capsules per bottle.
(A calculator is needed, I can't do mental math any more.)

This equaled the number of bottles I planned to order.
I did this for each item I bought, making a few adjustments here and there.

The suggested dosage for many of the herbs was 4 capsules, 4 times per day.
When I actually began to take the herbs, I found that I was able to ramp up to 3 capsules, 3 times per day, in a week or two.

At that rate, my supply is going to last for longer than eight weeks, which is okay, as Buhner suggests taking most of the herbs for a year.

Before my order arrived from iHerb, I was already taking the Cat's Claw and the Sarsaparilla.

When the order arrived, I was ramping up on each herb, and not having much trouble. By the end of the second week, I was taking Cat's Claw, Sarsaparilla, Devil's Claw, and Siberian Eleuthero.
Three capsules, three times per day.

Then the third week I began the Resveratrol.
By the fourth day, I was having a funny ache in what I was pretty sure was my left kidney.
No fever, appetite good, urine and bowels were normal.

After two days of this, when I realized that it must be from the herbs, I stopped everything.

Three days later I started up again, lower doses.
And damn, the ache started again!

So I stopped everything AGAIN, for a week and a half. Then I tried the herbs again, but without the Resveratrol.
No problems yet, but I'm still at low doses.

I checked with a smart Lyme friend in California about this, and she thought maybe the kidney ache was a herx.
She recommend a Kidney Rescue formula, saying that it brought her lab test results back into normal ranges.
http://www.herbscancleanse.com/kidneyrescue.html

I passed this info along to Liz28, when she posted that her labs for kidneys showed big problems.

I still have to order it.
I'm afraid to take the Resveratrol without it, and I have a whole he11 of alot of Resveratrol on hand.

I was beginning to notice more mental clarity, and I was able to do some things that I had been putting off.

Now I'm back to mentally foggy again, so I have to get back on track.
Sheesh, this is difficult, at least for me.

Carol

[ 03. January 2008, 06:09 PM: Message edited by: Carol in PA ]

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JimBoB
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Okay, everyone, I JUST read all your emails at once.

I am going to try to cover all of them without going back and looking at them as MY head is quite clear tonight, again, even though it is almost 2 a.m. here.

Good for you Carol, that you could go so high with the herbs so fast, but you see what happened. It DOES TAKE TIME for our systems to acclimate to them. Remember THEY are medicine also, just a different kind of medicine than abx.

Because I had such stomach problems last fall BEFORE I started on any herbs, I had to start out MUCH, MUCH slower than you. I was even afraid to take them at first my stomach hurt SO BAD all the time.

Let me tell you right now, before I forget, my stomach is very good these days. ONCE in a while it acts up a little, but not much. So I am happy for that.

I have a thread out there that I am sure SOME of you have been to before called: "Herbal Protocol I am Taking, HELPING!" Check it out for WHERE to get herbs and WHAT I take and amount. THough I have changed my protocol some since my last post on that.

There are several places to get herbs, CHEAP. One I use quite a bit is HerbsWholesale.com out in California. Another is Vitacost.com in Florida. Another is one you mentioned on this thread, which is myvitanet.com. Another is StarWestBotanicals.com. And 1stChineseHerbs.com. They are all good. Some have some that others don't. 1st Chinese you only have to order $35 worth to get FREE shipping, however they don't have a lot of herbs already encapsulated in bottles for you. THere are other good companies out there too.

I use what is cheap most of the time, except don't get the India Sarsaparilla as it is adulterated according to an article I read AFTER I bought some, so haven't used it. Mexican stuff is okay.

You talk about the HIGH price of Resveratrol.

YES it is the most expensive of all, I believe. But I buy that from 1st Chinese Herbs in bulk of 3.5 ounces, (they don't have it by the pound, too expensive), but I bought two 3.5 ounce jars at a time with other bulk herbs. MOST bulk herbs are by the pound. Then put in empty capsules.

IF you get it at 1st Chinese, it is called Hu Zhang though. (Chinese Knotweed). I searched a long time to find it. Good stuff though. 1st Chinese is quite good to work with. Quality conscious and fast shippers.

WHY buy in bulk? COST. MANY times cheaper. You probably pay about 7 or 8 times more when you buy it already in capsules. Tablets are usually cheaper. However do NOT buy Andrographis in Tablets UNLESS you don't mind the extremely bitter taste. I did, but could hardly finish the 5 bottles. Won't do that again. Capsules much more enjoyable to take when it comes to Andrographis.

And YES, it is VERY important to take the Resveratrol. IF you are going to have surgery of ANY kind though, quit taking them 10 days before surgery. Like I said I buy it in bulk to save a whole bunch of money.

It does take some time to put them into empty capsules, but IF you have time to watch TV, like I do, TOO much, then You can do it while watching TV.

You can get machines to do it from either StarWest Botanicals, or WonderLabatories.com. Wonder Labs is a little cheaper. I got my 00 size from StarWest before I found WonderLabs from Google. You can also get either empty bovine gelatin or the veggie capsules from WonderLabs. I have gone to the veggie caps now, even though they are more expensive.

You can also get bovine gelatin capsules cheaper at vitacost in 100 capsule bottles. $2.37 a bottle. I am going to stick with the veggie caps though.

You can get Raintree brand from some of these wholesale places cheaper than from the company itself as they sell at MSRP if I remember right. Your choice, depends on how much money you have to spend. I did buy some at first, but now buy some other brands a little cheaper.

I might say that I only take 4 pills of some of my herbs, others at 3 or 1, and only THREE TIMES a DAY. I ONLY take them with meals because of my sensitive stomach, and do not want to get ANY fatter than I already am, IF I can help it, so will not go more than three meals a day. You could take them with a snack, but I rarely do that anymore. I gain weight much too easy.

I also take other different herbs than Stephen recommends, in addition to his protocols.

Be sure to add Milk Thistle to the Sarsaparilla, and I would suggest, that even IF you do not take Artemisinin that you take the minimum dose of Red Root three times a day. I add it to my C-Salts, (Buhners highly recommened effervescent Vitamin C with Potassium and Zinc, from nutri.com), which I put in half water and half juice for taking my pills.

I also take Nettle Leaf, Stephania Root, Olive Leaf, Oil of Oregano capsules, Acidophilus, and other things such as Vitamin E, etc..

IF you go to bulk, making your own capsules, Buhner recommends the 00 size, which I bought first at his recommendation, but then also bought 0 size for some of the herbs. The 0 size is about 450 to 500mg and the 00 size is about 650 to 700mg, IF I remember those figures right. (Depending on HOW GOOD you pack them with the little manual machines).

YOUR choice on the capsules versus bulk. Save money or save time. I am semi-retired and have very little money and have more time so after I first started like most of you will, the cost was getting to me, and now buy MOST in bulk.

You are somewhat right on Buhners time to take recommendations. He recommends starting out slow too, to get your system to adjust. It will adjust too by the way. We have wonderful bodies IF we don't abuse them.

He recommends taking the MAXIMUM for a MINMUM of 60 days. I am thinking I will be on the maximum for about 5 months. Then slowly taper off to down to one pill of whatever I decide will keep helping me later. I may stay on a low dose of SOME of them for life, now that I see the benefits of herbs compared to other more invasive drugs.

Course MY life will probably be shorter than most of you, because I am older than most of you.

I know this is a lot that I am writing here, but hope you can decipher it all. Maybe print it out and save it for future use. As this thread will disappear after awhile. [Big Grin]

Take this for what it is worth to you. But remember I spent many, many hours over the past few months researching all this.

Have fun feeling BETTER.

Jim [Cool]

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JimBoB
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I just noticed I paid only $6.00 a bottle for Devils Claw from Herbs-WHolesale when I bought it last from them. That is 525mg and 100 caps; by Solaray.

Their Resveratrol was $11.64 which I thought was high. This was also Solaray brand, 60 VegeCaps, 75mg.

Periwinkle ariel was $4.99 for 1 ounce by NOW Foods. I got it in bulk now from StarWest.

Later I bought Source Naturals Resveratrol from Vitacost.com for only $10.19 a bottle of 60 tablets. Still much more than bulk.

Hope this helps you all some.

Jim [Cool]

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JimBoB
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liz28:

RIGHT company, WRONG brand.

The ONLY thing I buy of the Jarrow Formulas brand is their Gelatin empty capsules.

That Resveratrol HRL that you put up in your post is for Jarrows COMPLEX, NOT pure Knotweed (Resveratrol). IF you want the Buhner recommended Resveratrol order the Source Naturals brand from Vitacost. Like I said it is $10.19 a bottle which is also expensive, but not near the cost of Jarrows multi-complex bottle for more money.

You get benefits from the Resveratrol no matter HOW small of a dose you use, just NOT as much, but believe me I saw WONDERS almost right away using Devil's Claw especially, along with Sarsaparilla, Cat's Claw, then the Andrographis and Resveratrol; on VERY SMALL doses in the beginning.

And even more yet, now that I am on other things.

Jim [Cool]

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5dana8
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God Bless you liz28 and Carol in PA

for doing the digging and sharing what information you have gathered with me.

I appreciate it more than I can say.

I don't want this thread to be about what herbs to start on and what exactly are the correct places to get them. Or what is right is the right way to go, or what is wrong. I am just trying to gather information
at this time. [Smile]

I am researching at this time and will talk over everything with my LLMD first. Because I want to know what herbs I can take with my standard abx treatments.

Thanks again. And I will print out this and give it to my LLD with all the other information I have gathered.
_____________________

Make sure to talk over everything first with your LLMD [Smile]

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5dana8

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Thereminator
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Great info. Jimbob.
Everyone...the(initial-without 4% discount) prices at Getnutri and Eastherb are lower than Iherb(especialy Artemisinin)...Also when useing Vitacost factor in the shiping cost!
Hey,if anyone finds lower prices,please post it on this topic site...Thanks. Alan

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Thereminator
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P.S. You can also get Raintree Cats Claw for around $10-bottle at Getnutri and Eastherb. Alan

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Cate
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i have been using a combination forumla for some time that helps my pain, which includes knotweed and other anti-oxidants. it's called "Cox-2 control body comfort" and is made by KAL. it's got 100 mg devil's claw, 75 mg japanese knotweed, 50 mg grape skin extract, and 25 mg clove. about $16 per bottom of 60 tablets.
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JimBoB
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Yes, Cate, you will get some pain relief with that.
The Devil's Claw is especially helpful, even in low doses. It really helped me in the beginning.

However to "heal" Lyme you need stronger doses of the Devils Claw along with Resveratrol, Andrographis, especially Andrographis which is Antispirochetal; and Sarsaparilla.

I am taking 6000 mg a day of the Sarsaparilla and also Cat's Claw. And about 4500mg a day of Resveratrol and Andrographis.

But only 2000mg of the Devil's Claw. Plus all the other herbs I am taking too.

Your price of $16.00 for only 60 capsules will KILL you on costs IF you take a good healing dose each day. 60 capsules at say 12 a day will only last you 5 days. THAT is a lot of money. I could never afford it for sure.

BULK is best, IF you can dig up a little time to put it in capsules. You will cut your costs by about 75 to 80%.

You can get a 3.5 ounce jar (100 grams) of Hu Zhang, concentrated extract powder, which is Chinese Knotweed; from 1st Chinese Herbs, for only $11.99. (high quality). You can get a lot of bottles of capsules out of that.

I think I should point out here, that I am NOT talking JUST resveratrol. While Resveratrol is GOOD, it is NOT as good as the whole herb, Knotweed; which has resveratrol in it, but also many other constituents that are VERY beneficial in Lyme Disease along with many other diseases too. So make sure you get Knotweed, either Japanese or Chinese. Hu Zhang is the chinese name for it.

Source Naturals is very good, and already in capsules, but quite expensive even at wholesale.

Jim.
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Annxyz
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Helpful info for those seeking resources for
botanical anti infectives . Some are using these solely ; others are using them WITH antibiotics .

--------------------
ANNXYZ

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Annxyz
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Helpful info for those seeking resources for
botanical anti infectives . Some are using these solely ; others are using them WITH antibiotics .

--------------------
ANNXYZ

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mtnwoman
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Re resveratrol/japanese knotwood, Buhner thinks this is critical to his protocol.

Unfortunately for me, reseveratrol (Source Naturals) is also a phytoestrogen and it gives me estrogen deficiency symptoms (the weak estrogens block my strong ones).

Any other women notice this w/ resveratrol?

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Carol in PA
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quote:
Originally posted by mtnwoman:

Unfortunately for me, reseveratrol (Source Naturals) is also a phytoestrogen and it gives me estrogen deficiency symptoms (the weak estrogens block my strong ones).

Any other women notice this w/ resveratrol?

Hmmm, I wasn't on it long enough to tell.
What were your symptoms?

Carol

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catalysT
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------------------------------------------------------------------
Cat's Claw Powder (Raintree Nutrition Brand)

1.2lbs, $13.53


Sarsaparilla Powder (Raintree Nutrition Brand)

1lb, $14.29


Andrographis (Standardized Extract) Powder (10% andrographolides)

100 grams, $10.50


Astragalus (Full spectrum standardized extract, 4% isoflavones)


100 grams, $10.00


Siberian Ginseng (Eleutherococcus) extract 0.8% eleutherocide.


100 grams, $5.75



Resveratrol Powder, Polygonum Cuspidatum (Japanese Knotweed) 50% extract.

[NOTE-Read what mtnwoman said about resveratrol being a phytoestrogen. I think there may be better supplements for QUINolinic acid-induced neurotoxicity. If you want Japanese Knotweed, it may be better to get an un-concentrated form lower in resveratrol. I will post more later on alternatives to resveratrol. Time-released melatonin is a good solution for PM though, Idebenone/etc should help against some other excito/neurotoxicity besides QUIN.]

25 grams, $12


Artemisinin, (Doctors Best Brand[new])

100mg, 90 Veggie Caps, $15.99


Encapsulating Machine 00-size (Better [less messy] than Cap-M-Quick's brand)

$11.78


[URL= http://www.easycart.net/BeyondACenturyInc./Measuring_Scales_etc.html]Twin-Beam Scale[/URL] (American Weigh, 0.05g-7g accuracy) (NOTE-If you prefer digital, there's a cheap one on the site too)

$9.50

----------------------------------------------------------
Beyond-A-Century also sells mangosteen extract (never had it myself but I've heard people here mention it.), Idebenone, Bulk CoQ10, Silymarin Curcumin extract, digestive enzymes etc.

I have not ordered from BAC yet, but I will soon. I have no affiliation with any of these companies, or any companies for that matter.

Please feel free to Private-Message me for help sourcing out any supplements etc.

[ 15. January 2007, 12:20 AM: Message edited by: catalysT ]

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mtnwoman
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Carol,
I got hot flashes and fuzzy headed -- symptoms that my estradiol usually relieve.

Catalyst,
Buhner talks about japanese knotwood's phytoestrogens giving it's QUIN reducing effects.

I suspect that is why my Bb infected brain loves estradiol -- it quells the fires in my brain -- literally.

Phytoestrogens have never been enough to quell the brain fires - instead they worsen them for me (prob cuz they block my strong estrogen from locking in the cell receptors).

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JimBoB
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Hi:
I am wondering if Beyond the Century has empty capsules? Especially the veggie ones, and if so, how much.

I see their price is about the same as WonderLabs sells the machines for. But I also get my empty capsules from WonderLabs at the best price I have found so far. AND I get free shipping because I buy enough capsules at a time. I also get my vitamin A and E from them.

I also used to buy some from Herbs-Wholesale, but pretty much switched to 1st Chinese as they have more of what I use. I just went to 1st CHinese and saw they were slightly higher than Herbs-Wholesale, HOWEVER, they are running a SPECIAL right NOW, at 25% off if ordered from their website by midnight January 14th. I am going to go there now and get some more of my herbs, as I will be getting low on them in the next couple of weeks. Might as well get the deal. [Smile]

Jim [Cool]

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MariaA
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Caution:

Buhner mentions myvitanet.net as a source, the price is very cheap there and I've used them several times. But they're SLOOWWW on shipping!!! I now prefer vitacost.

--------------------
Symptom Free!!! Thank you all!!!!

Find me at Lymefriends, I post under the same name.
diet: http://lymefriends.ning.com/group/healthylowcarbrecipes
Homemade Probiotics thread
Herbal Links Thread

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Annxyz
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Bump for those asking about resorces for Buhner's core protocol herbs

Very Good Info here

--------------------
ANNXYZ

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serendipity
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Unfortunately for me, reseveratrol (Source Naturals) is also a phytoestrogen and it gives me estrogen deficiency symptoms (the weak estrogens block my strong ones).

Any other women notice this w/ resveratrol?
_____________________________________________

I noticed similar symptoms. The symptoms felt like hormonal changes, those that occur around my menses. Saddness, spaciness, and tremors.

I will have to research phyoestrogen a bit more.

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Ruth Ruth
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As I posted on a different thread (I think), I had the emotional/mental symptoms the first couple of days taking the source naturals Resveratrol.

However, I am still on two per day without any trouble at this point.

Buhner lists these functions of japanese knotweed in lyme disease (p105):
  • modulates/enhances immune function
  • active against a number of gram-negative and gram-positive bacteria
    including leptospira and Treponema denticola spirochetes
  • is anti-inflammatory for both arthritic and bacterial inflammations
  • protects the body against endotoxin damage,
  • helps reduce Herx. reactions
  • cardioprotector
  • only herb that specifically blocks [autoinflammatory] pathways
  • constituents cross the blood/brain barrier
  • exert actions on the CNS: anti microbial, anti inflammatory, anti oxidant, calming
  • protects the brain from inflammatory damage, microbial endotoxins, and bacterial infections
  • enhances blood flow especially to the eye, heart, skin, and joints
  • specific for lyme skin manifestations
  • specific for treating bartonella coinfections.
I guess those are some pretty good reasons for Buhner to put it in his protocol.

I wondered if my symptoms were actually it hitting a subclinical bartonella infection in me. Or maybe just the anti inflammatory effects allowing my immune system to put up a better fight against all the infections.

I just know it did cause me to feel bad for a couple of days and I will only increase the dose slowly and carefully! [Smile]

--------------------
When I lost my grip on Faith in the maze of illness,
Hope gently clasped my hand and led on.

RuthRuth

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Annxyz
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I read a lot about this herb and found some literature that DID caution women who had estrogen related " issues " to be wary because there is not enough known about how the body will synthesize it as a phytoestrogen.

Buhner thinks there is no problem . There have been other "phytoestrogens " that have turned out to to cause the same problems as estrogen, so it really concerns me .

Buhner is a smart guy , but so were the docs who gave women estrogen for years only to cause
an enormous increase in estrogen fueled cancers .

The site where I found one ( of several ) articles is Mdidea .
Ann

--------------------
ANNXYZ

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Ruth Ruth
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Yes Annxyz,

But note, Buhner is a guy. And smart as scientific types are, they still miss the big differences between how male/female bodies process things. So I agree with your caution for women to watch how they are responding hormonally.

--------------------
When I lost my grip on Faith in the maze of illness,
Hope gently clasped my hand and led on.

RuthRuth

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