Currently it is the horrible side of it..Set it off just stepping out of the bathtub yesterday..It was better and tried to turn over in bed and screamed..Then tried to get out and go to the bathroom and it was so bad ,my leg just buckled under me..

Not sure if lyme can cause it. But considering all of the destruction it can cause one would only think it possible..

Good luck..I take aleve and hot baths..And try to be careful with my every turn..I also can't wear anything that is even slightly tight on that upper leg or it is worse..

I remember my LLMD mentioning some time back that sciatic pain is common with lyme.

I didn't start having it until I'd already been in treatment for a while. It certainly feels very lyme related to me.

Also, I had a bout of sciatic pain many years ago, before I had any other health problems. This feels very different, which also makes me think it's a lyme thing.

Sometimes heat seems to help (or at least it's soothing). I take gabitril because I have a lot of nerve pain all over now, but it doesn't seem to help this.

monkeyshines

I'm sure it's somewhat Lyme-related. I also had an injury many years ago on the same side I have the pain.

Prolotherapy helped me alot. I had numerous treatments 2 yrs ago. May need another.
http://www.prolodoc.com/faber4.htm http://www.prolodoc.com/zale.htm http://www.prolotherapy.com/ http://www.prolodoc.com/
Hear success stories: http://www.prolotherapy.com/proloaudio.htm

Rate prolotherapy: http://www.remedyfind.com/rm-715-Prolotherapy.asp

How do other treatments rate? http://www.remedyfind.com/hc-Osteoarthritis.asp

Articles on prolotherapy:
http://www.prolotherapy.com/documents.htm
http://www.prolotherapy.com/articles/banks.htm http://www.getprolo.com/
http://www.docbridges.com/prolo.htm

A great book on the topic:
Prolo Your Pain Away, by Dr. Ross Hauser

I have a complete montly body massage Friday and she got the knots worked out pretty good again. Necessary for the 18 of 18 fibro trigger points.

quote:

---

Originally posted by bettyg:
I've had the problem for 10-15 years. I keep frozen ice packs on it as much as possible when sitting.

---

What was really weird is that standing or sitting was actually better than lying down. Go figure!

Sorry, I do NOT sit on the ice backs! ha...

I've had terrible sciatic pain that flares around my cycle along with everything else.

I don't know if sciatica is common with LD, but it certainly accompanied my Lyme-related issues.

If I can offer good news, with the right combination of antibiotics, I have reduced the pain over the past year. My LD is chronic, so it will take longer to treat. But I am optimistic that relief is not far away. You should be optimistic too. Just hang in there.

I have found that floating in a pool or hot tub relieves sciatic pain at least while soaking. It does feel good even if it's just a brief respite.

The only problem with that is it went from my leg to my arm and still keeps moving around. Every time I find a way to ease the pain to the muscle it is attacking, it just moves to another one.

Ibuprofene didn't help at all. Not sure about the tens. I think it may have made it worse. Major flare up after using it.

Good luck.

I guess as the bugs were killed off, the inflammation went down and so did the pain.
Had an MRI but it showed nothing.

Hang in there.
SandiB

quote:

---

Originally posted by SandiB:
Sciatic was one of my worse symptoms. It started about two months after I was put on doxycycline for the Lyme. Had the pain almost constantly for 18 months ...one morning I got up and the pain was gone and it never has come back...that's two years ago.
When the pain was at its worse I went to a chiropracter and he used hot and cold packs on my back. The pain was completely on my right side...it started from a disk in my back and ran into my hip and down my leg into my foot. It was so bad I could only stand up or lie down, couldn't sit or drive. I was told my a LLMD that probably the Bb was causing inflammation in a disk....it was always painful in the same spot.

I guess as the bugs were killed off, the inflammation went down and so did the pain.
Had an MRI but it showed nothing.

Hang in there.
SandiB

[This message has been edited by SandiB (edited 31 January 2005).]

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I did start taking MAG SR and 1500 mgs. of Calcium in divided doses with meals. Think the magnesium helped as I remember. My LLMD told me to hang in there...and it would pass when the bugs were killed, and it happened, but it took two years. Lyme like old age isn't for whimps.

Joint Bone Spine. 2004 Sep;71(5):433-7.

*Sciatica, disk herniation, and neuroborreliosis. A report of four cases.*

*Dupeyron A, Lecocq J, Jaulhac B, Isner-Horobeti ME, Vautravers P,
Cohen-Solal J, Sordet C, Kuntz JL.*

Physical Medicine and Rehabilitation Unit, Strasbourg Teaching
Hospitals, Avenue Moliere, 67098 Strasbourg cedex, France.

We report four cases of sciatica in patients with same-level disk herniation confirmed by computed tomography and a final diagnosis of
acute radiculitis caused by Borrelia burgdorferi, with a favorable response to ceftriaxone therapy.

The neurological manifestations of Lyme disease are protean, and a potential contribution of concomitant disk disease to sciatica can lead to diagnostic wanderings. Disk lesions and infectious conditions that can cause sciatica are discussed. Whether a
favorable response to antibiotic therapy should be taken as proof of B. burgdorferi radiculitis deserves discussion.

In practice, in a patient with clinical manifestations suggesting disk-related nerve root pain and residing or having traveled to an endemic area, B. burgdorferi infection should be looked for, as both etiologies can coexist.
-------------------

(I suffered for many years with low back and sciatic pain that was bad enough to keep me awake at night. (I've had LD at least 16 yrs). To my amazement, over the past 9 months it eased up and then completely resolved. Several things helped, I believe; my most recent treatment for LD and co (abx, herbs, etc.); bodywork for several years, including Rolfing when I was well enough to stand it; and yoga/stretching.

This just caught my eye. I have now been literally floor-bound since Friday last week with sciatica. Mostly right leg (which is unusual for me, usually left) and a little bit in left leg also.

I have had sciatica come and go for years. But, this episode is like nothing I've ever experienced.

All I could do last weekend was drag myself on floor by elbows. Trying to go to the bathroom was a horrible experience as thepain was so great sitting, I would sweat and feel like I would faint from pain. I would literally end up lying on bathroom floor for about 2 hours unable to move, just screaming and crying.

Monday the doctor came to see me and gave me Valium. Kept resting and about 3 days later I thought it was getting better so I got up a bit more and did a bit more. Mistake.

I am now worse again. Can walk and stand, but not for long - maybe a few minutes, like right now.

I have now been lying down so much though for about 10 days that I feel ill and weird just standing up/walking.

What does one do? I feel damned if I do and damned if I don't. All this lying flat can't be good, but getting up is too painful also and my entire leg wants to cramp up again.

I also don't want to be come a valium-addict.

All this pain, etc might have had something to do why I had the vaso-vagal thing with my Bicillin shot on Friday. I hopw that's the explanation anyway.

It is so frustrating. I went to a chiropractor yesterday and they didn't realize I was a new patient and tried to make a new appt.

I was about in tears. I cannot wait to get an appt later. I needed it now. I have so little time to take off work, it makes being sick impossible.

Kids need me, parents need me. Sorry to drag on, but I am so frustrated!

quote:

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Originally posted by Kait:
I had a MRI of my back done a few years ago, I have bulged discs. I cannot sleep at night because of it sometimes. I go to scool and I have to sit for at least 2 hours for each class and I have to keep moving and changing the way I sit down. I am 20 and feel like I am 60. My son is a yaer and a half and I can barely keep up with him. I have to call my dr and tell him about this pain, I don't go back to see him until the 9th. Well I am glad that I know it might be from the lyme and not something else wrong. Thanks for all the help!!

---

Very interesting. I've had lower backpain since my 20s - on and off. I'm now in my 40's.

I learned many years ago, that bulging discs is quite common even in people with no backpain.

It has become "popular" to do MRIs of the spine if you have back or neck pain. And then if the doctor finds a bulging or herniated disc, he then deems that the cause.

In way to many cases, people even have disc surgery to correct the problem if it is a recurring problem. In the end the surgery rarely improves the patients condition.

I'm totally convinced that in by far the most cases of "modern" day backpain, has nothing to do with physiological pain, i.e., it is not due to herniated or bulging discs.

It's either a brain created condition (search for John Sarno on Google to get the book) OR it's due to infection like Lyme.

Have you read about prolotherapy in my links above? I know it sounds horrible, but believe me, if you get a good doctor, this can be your ticket OUT!

I only agreed to do it when I was at my wits end. You do need to be heavily drugged and somewhat sedated to have the prolo done.

I would suggest that you go to Amazon.com and try to find a copy of Dr Hauser's book, Prolo Your Pain Away! My dr received his training from this dr.

If you'll read the rationale for the procedure, I think you'll actually get excited about it and want to do it.

Also, your current situation could be from a herx. What do you think? Did this start up again while herxing??

Email me if you need more info or help. I feel your pain!

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kaykay:
I am suffering since Friday morning. I am taking muscle relaxers and pain pills and can hardly walk.

It is so frustrating. I went to a chiropractor yesterday and they didn't realize I was a new patient and tried to make a new appt.

I was about in tears. I cannot wait to get an appt later. I needed it now. I have so little time to take off work, it makes being sick impossible.

Kids need me, parents need me. Sorry to drag on, but I am so frustrated!

---

It makes me so upset when I hear about people like you.

In all likelyhood, you can probably get rid of the pain all by yourself in a matter of hours.

I'M NOT KIDDING.

The reason is that your pain, with some probability, is caused by your brain - your subconscious more specifically.

The pain is generated by the subconscious to divert from dealing with your emotional pain and stress stemming from elsewhere in your life, e.g., your kids, disease, marital problems, etc.

You probably think I'm crazy for saying this, but there is actually a reasonably solid theory behind this, denoted as TMS (Tension Myositis Syndrome), discovered by John Sarno from NY University Medical Center.

And it works. I use it myself on my neck. And it works every time.

I think the pain away. I'm not kidding.

But this method will only work if you believe in the theory behind it. Cause you must be able to "convince" your subconscious, of which you really have no control, that you know what it is doing and that you won't put up with it.

The second crucial thing you need to know in order for this to work is that you must be able to pinpoint exactly what your current emotional pain is stemming from. And there may be more than one issue.

Again, search for "John Sarno" on Google and get his book (it's only $10 I believe). You can even read the first 7 pages or so from his "Healing backpain: The mind-body connection".

Sarno's discovery also explains why backpain has skyrocketed over the last 20 years in almost perfect synchronization with the increased pressure and stress in life and work carreers in general.

quote:

---

Originally posted by cmichaelo:
It makes me so upset when I hear about people like you.

In all likelyhood, you can probably get rid of the pain all by yourself in a matter of hours.

Michael

---

Michael, with all due respect, you've obviously never had sciatic nerve pain. It is NOT a muscular or brain problem. It's a nerve problem. This pain cannot be relieved by thinking any more than Bell's Palsy or Lyme can!

Displaced emotion and the 'mind-body' connection are important things to consider whenever you're looking at serious pain, but that hardly implies that there is no organic origin. Brush up on what Lyme does to nerve endings. Remind yourself that many with intense back pain often have swelling and other signs of inflammation that are unlikely to represent displaced emotion.

MRIs are unreliable, and their relationship to pain is erratic at best, but to conclude from this that pain which is not explained by MRI findings is psychological in origin is way too big a leap.

I would agree with you that the mind side of the mind-body connection is often underemphasized, but you need to remember true the exception to that rule: physcians routinely invoke psychosomatic origin to dismiss pain in their patients.

Nor is every symptom that originates in the brain subject to being erased by shifts in awareness. The brain too undergoes physiological changes in Lyme disease. These are often quite serious. Their contribution to pain is a more complex issue than inferring a psychological basis for pain that is not adequately accounted for by radiographic or MRI findings.

Pain along the spine has been a huge issue in this disease for me as well. The vulnerability relates to a specific injury in my case, the MRIs do provide objective signs of damage (having your lower back swell up to the size of a watermelon is also quite persuasive in this regard). At one point, it was so bad I couldn't move from my bed, lost control of my bowels, and had to be carted off to the ER by paramedics.

I aggressively practice meditation and conscious expression of emotional pain - it is essential for coping with this illness. That doesn't make it a remedy for pain.

I apologize if I come on too strong about Sarno. But it's one of those things that once you're a convert, well, then you're a convert.

To convince people that their backpain may...MAY...be created by their very own brain is almost as difficult as persuading someone who has MS, or Parkinsons, that they just might...just MIGHT...have Lyme instead.

Cause people like to bracket themselves into "I have Lyme", "I have MS"...and therefore all my symptoms are due to this disease.

It's important for anyone with a complex disease like Lyme to keep an open mind. Cause there are no clear cut cures and answers to this disease or your symptoms.

If you read my two posts again, you should see that in the first post I wrote:

It's either a brain created condition (search for John Sarno on Google to get the book) OR it's due to infection like Lyme.

...and in my second postI used terms such as in all likelyhood and you probably think I'm crazy.

I deliberately do this because there are several reasons for spine related pains, INCLUDING infection with Bb.

But just because you have Lyme and you have backpain DOES NOT mean the backpain is due to Lyme. Though it could very well be so.

I admit I'm not up to speed on why Bb or the toxins that it creates would "attack" the nerves in the spine. But I guess it could, why not?

What John Sarno's technique enables you to do,

FOR FREE, and
BY YOURSELF, and
with NO SIDEEFFECTS and
TODAY

is to try to heal yourself if the cause of your backpain is indeed TMS.

My point is that you have nothing to loose by looking into this technique, and you'll learn about backpain, stomach ulcers and other brain created pains along the way.

I can not recommend his book enough. It's "entertainment" value alone is worth it.

Sarno is a quite objective fellow. He admits that it won't work for some people, obviously, who do not suffer from TMS.

And obviously, many people do not have TMS.

I'm theorizing, however, that Lyme strikken people is a group of people who are particularly prone to TMS due to the extra stress and emotional pain imposed on their lives by their Lyme disease.

Just because you have been diagnosed with Lyme, doesn't mean all your symptoms are due to Lyme.

And correspondingly, don't think all your backpain symptoms are due to TMS.

Keep an open mind. That's all.

I have had neck pain and lower back pain since my 20's. But I can only remove the neck pains with Sarno's technique.

I'm begining to believe the on and off lower back pain (radiating down my left leg) is due to Lyme, cause I can't remove it by thinking.

Michael

Here is something I did that helped quite a bit with the back pain at a time when it was at its worst. As I said earlier, ultimately bodywork and treatment for LD/co completely have completely resolved my pain. When I think about this, after so much pain for so long, it seems like a whole mini-miracle all by itself.

For me the pain was very bad for about 2 years, although I'd had low back pain on and off for several years before that. It was caused, I believe, by a combination of bulging disc at L5S1, muscle spasms, and inflammation from LD.

At one point, my low back was in agony, enough to wake me constantly throughout the night (if I ever got to sleep) despite antiinflammatories and muscle relaxants. My left buttock was amazingly sore, and my left leg was numb in some areas and ached all down the outside length. I had trouble walking on a flat surface. I'd had a massage that made it worse, (I found a great body worker later) and stretching didn't help. I'd have stuck my leg in a blender on "chop" if I'd thought it would help.

One evening I had taken the maximum of flexeril and I was frantic with pain. I got into the empty bath and ran in the water as hot as I could stand it, just to cover my leg and lower back. At that time, hot baths made me very sick, so I kept the rest of me cool with damp hand towels. I stayed in as long as I could and refreshed the hot water a couple of times. I don't know how long I was actually in the tub.

When I got out I was able to move more freely, and I stretched in any way that felt good to me, lying down.

I remember 4 things in particular that helped -- lying on my back and putting my leg across my body so that my toe touched the floor on the other side; making a kind of wedge out of a book and a hand towel and lying so that my sacrum was on the book with my tail bone on the fat end of the wedge (that felt great); stretching my hamstrings; and lying on my back pressing my low back into the floor with my legs up on a chair. I probably spent at least an hour switching between those positions.

I finally went to sleep on the floor on my back with a pillow under my knees.

I was better the next day, and improved after that. I still had significant backpain for quite a while, but it was bearable and I was able to move pretty normally.

quote:

---

Originally posted by cmichaelo:
I'm begining to believe the on and off lower back pain (radiating down my left leg) is due to Lyme, cause I can't remove it by thinking.
Michael

---

Now imagine that this pain is SEVERE and it feels like a hot poker [or searing electrical burn] from your back all the way through to your foot. And the pain in your foot is so bad you can hardly stand.

I understand how the brain controls ALOT of things, including pain, but you also need to be sensitive to others.

Thanks for the info on Sarno. [I think] The mind is like a parachute. The mind is like a parachute.

quote:

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Originally posted by Lymetoo:
WEll there you go! "Radiating down your leg"...couldn't remove that pain by thinking. Yep. Exactly my point.

---

I don't know what point you're trying to make here. You make it sound like you proved something?

Radiating pain down your leg can be due to TMS, infection and physiological. In my case it appears it is not due to TMS, though. Thus, it could be due to Lyme.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Lymetoo:
I understand how the brain controls ALOT of things, including pain, but you also need to be sensitive to others.

---

I'm not sure how to interpret this statement. I hope you're not implying that I'm insensitive to others, cause I always to be sensitive.

I may not present matters the way that you do it. But I do try to be objective. And I'm not saying to anyone that "Hey you there, you have TMS." Am I???

I'm merely raising a posibility that might...MIGHT...help someone else.

quote:

---

Originally posted by cmichaelo:
It makes me so upset when I hear about people like you.

Michael

---

Pain radiating down the leg suggests nerve pain, which in my opinion, would not respond to "thinking it away."

It seems as though I am letting go, but I am trying to hold on with all I have.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Lymetoo:
Michael, with all due respect, you've obviously never had sciatic nerve pain. It is NOT a muscular or brain problem. It's a nerve problem. This pain cannot be relieved by thinking any more than Bell's Palsy or Lyme can!

---

How do you know this? How can you categorically deny the possibility of the pain having origination in the subconscious?

Lots of people with sciatica-like pains have thought their pain away, according to Sarno.

No, I have not done it myself. But that doesn't mean it won't work for Kait.

It might work for Kait. Or it might not work for Kait.

But you don't even want Kait to try!

How's that for being sensitive "to others"?

quote:

---

Originally posted by Lymetoo:
Pain radiating down the leg suggests nerve pain, which in my opinion, would not respond to "thinking it away."

---

Well, at least the second time around you were a bit more unsure of yourself.

We don't know Kait, and thus can only make suggestions.

If you think that the degree of pain has anything to do with whether the cause of the pain is emotional or physiological, then you are certainly on shaky ground.

On one hand you say that you appreciate the power of the brain. And then in the next statement you negate yourself, because you simply can not fathom that our subconscious can create sciatica-like pain and therefore you come to the conclusion that it must be physiological in nature.

That is simply poor reasoning on your part.

quote:

---

Originally posted by cmichaelo:

That is simply poor reasoning on your part.

Michael

---

I think Kait's a big girl. She can make intelligent decisions without our help or non-help.

That said, if a patient has a structural or physiological problem such as a compression on a nerve root or an anular tear behind a bulging disc, it may be the primary source of pain. Furthermore, my LLMD said bb can cause pain of the Sacraliliac joint which may be difficult to distinguish from other disc, muscle, or tendon deriven back pain.

Just read the first 12 lines about the producer of the Rosie O'Donnell show.

Then decide for yourself if you might...JUST MIGHT...suffer from TMS.

And just to say it again and again...

I'm NOT saying that we all suffer from TMS. Obviously we do not.

I'm just encouraging everybody to consider it as a posibility.