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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » how to actually begin the Buhner protocol

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Author Topic: how to actually begin the Buhner protocol
Peggy in Maryland
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I've read many posts here about the Buhner protocol, but haven't found anything that discusses how to actually begin.

I now have everything I need for the Core Protocol, but I'm thinking it would be unwise to start everything at once. If I have any sort of reaction, how would I know what caused it unless I started with only one herb at a time?

I have eliminated all those that are listed as blood thinners, until after I have the PICC line inserted (provided my insurance company ever gets around to approving it).

I'm thinking to start with andrographis, and then to wait 3 or 4 days before introducing the next item. Then at 7 days, the andrographis gets doubled. 3 or 4 days after that, double item #2, and so on.

Once the PICC line is inserted, I would again wait several days before adding anything new or increasing anything, to give my body time to adapt to the rocephin.

Does this plan sound feasible? Anyone have experience with this approach? Thanks.

Posts: 143 | From Maryland | Registered: Oct 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
hardynaka
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Peggy, my computer crashed, I lost my post to you! [rant]

Well, a summary:
- I would start with sarsaparilla (the least harsh)
- then would add cats claw (watch for your liver)
- then would add either knotweed or andro.

You'll feel your body, don't worry. If you dont go too fast. I woudl start with 1/2 andro capsule each time. And 1/2 knotweed too (I'm allergic to it).

Many report strong reaction to andro, so go VERY SLOW>

There's Buhner's forum in yahoo.

Good luck!
Selma

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Peggy in Maryland
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Both cat's claw and knotweed are listed as herbs you cannot take for 10 days prior to any surgery, so I won't start them till after I've had the PICC line installed--still waiting on insurance approval for that.

I started on andrographis this morning, one capsule. I plan to add smilax in a few days if all goes well with andro.

I don't know whether I can take astragalus at all because it's contraindicated in late-stage Lyme and I don't know whether I have late-state Lyme or not. How does one know that?

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ashleygait
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Hi all!

I actually knew I'd be going on IV rocephin for a month about the same time I read Buhner's book (which I strongly recommend, especially if you're going to follow the protocol--you can get it through your library if you need to).

I decided that the herx from the abx would be enough for me to deal with for the time being so I started all the supportive supplements instead and had wonderful results with it.

It was only when I got to herxing from the abx that everything wenet south! I'm a mess right now, but I can't wait to be off the rocephin and on the herbals again.

I definitely would start very slowly, whatever you choose to do. I know for me that I react strongly to any bit of die off i get--herbal or from abx...

Ashley [Wink]

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Peggy in Maryland
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Hi Ashleygait,

If you're having herxing problems on rocephin, it seems smilax might be helpful. Page 126 of Buhner's book says it lessens herx reactions from spirochete die-off by its ability to bind endotoxins in the blood stream.

It also enances the actions of other herbs and drugs used in Lyme treatment, so it might help the rocephin do its job.

I haven't started it yet as I get the PICC line installed this a.m. I will give the rocephin a few days then introduce the smilax. I prefer not to throw everything at my body at once, because if I suddenly start more than one treatment, I won't know what's causing any reaction I might have.

I've had great success with cholestyramine in the past--it really cleaned up the die-off and I started feeling better pretty soon after starting it. Right now I have a very active and spreading infection, so rocephin is number one on my list.

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kumba
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I just signed on to do a search on his protocols...I just got his book out of the library and read it today. Since I just started antibiotics 2 days ago, I am going to hold off until I see how I react form this and then incorporate the herbs..maybe. I'd like to read more about how people reponded to the herbs. Best of luck to you!!
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5dana8
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Hi Peggy in maryland [Smile]

I would start with just one herb(low dose) at a time & see how your body reacts. And then up the herb to Bruhner's recommended dosage.

If you start out with the whole core protocal-and have a recation- you don't know which herb is causing it.

Just cause herbs are "natural" doesn't mean your body wouldn't have a reaction.

Just my 2 cents.

Good luck with it and take care
dana

--------------------
5dana8

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ashleygait
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Cheers Peggy!

Listen, good luck with the rocephin--let me know how it goes for you okay? I'm on day 8 and I must admit it's hit me pretty hard.

According to my CSP I have an active infection that won't seem to let up so i'm starting with abx too, but I hope very much to follow it up with the full Buhner protocol.

Very good lcuk to you,

Ashley [Wink]

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JimBoB
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FYI

I started Buhner's protocols FIRST, then went to abx.

I had stomach problems BEFORE starting anything, and the herbs did not help. However the abx made it much worse. Finally after two months of abx, I quit them all together. I have had a couple of short stints of abx for infections since, but that is all.

I would and did start Sarsaparilla FIRST, along with Devils Claw. Then added Cats Claw, Androgarphis and Resveratrol. Plus many others later.

I would NOT want to EVER be without the Sarsaparilla. It is a good blood cleanser, plus many other good attributes. If I had to drop all herbs for some reason except one, I would keep the Sarsaparilla.

Also, IF you think you may have herx problems, get on Red Root tincture. I take that faithfully three times a day also.

The only herb I HAD to be real careful with was Coptis. It is the strongest. MUCH stronger than Andrographis. I have just gotten up to 6 "0" size capsules of Coptis a day, this week. After more than two months of taking it now.

I have been on Buhner's Protocols for almost a year now. Started on November 25th last year.

Before starting the herbs, I didn't know IF I could even live long enough to see 2006, let alone this much of it. I was probably at about 30 to 35 percent of my former self a year ago. Now I am about 90 percent or better most of the time.

Go slow at first, but GO! I never heard of Cats Claw not to be used before surgery. Resveratol, yes. I have taken Cats Claw before surgery with no problems.

Jim [Cool]

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CaliLymer
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Hi Everyone,

Were do you purchase them??? Are they all in sold in drop form?

CAlilymer

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Peggy in Maryland
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Thanks, Jim Bob. I tried to PM you a week or two ago to thank you for some info you sent, but your box was full, so I'll thank you now.

Based on your endorsement of the sarsaparilla, I started it this morning. I had to get Source Naturals and they have it in a tincture. The bottle says 15 drops under the tongue--I would advise anyone never to do that. It feels like pure alcohol and burns like crazy. I'll put it in water or juice for the next dose.

I just had the PICC line installed on Tuesday. I tried to avoid abx but I started having neurological problems. I've had only 2 days of rocephin so far.

I'd meant to wait about a week to give my system time to adjust to the rocephin before starting to add any of Buhner's herbs. But am feeling like death warmed over so I went for it with the sarsaparilla. Jim Bob, since you get such good results with it, I'd like to know which brand you use?

I'll stay with it for 3 or 4 days before adding another core protocol herb. Which one should come next? I know he says andrographis is the best all around herb for Lyme, and it's listed first in the book. But it's also the one I read most people having problems with. I feel bad enough already.

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Peggy in Maryland
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Hi CaliLymer,

I got mine at Vitacost, and what Vitacost didn't have I got at webvitamins.com. Webvitamins has much better customer service and ships faster. They're in Connecticut. Vitacost is in Florida.

Peggy

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ashleygait
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Jimbob--I just wanted to thank you for just about every post I've read of yours--you are an inspiration and make me feel like I've got weelness to look forward to eventually!! [Wink]

Peggy--hang in there! I'm on day 10 0f IV rocephin and it's been pretty hard going, particularly with the neurological aspects unfortunately. I'm hoping it's a herx that will go away with time...

I'm also going to start the sarsaparilla and see what happens...

Good luck with it,

Ashley [Big Grin]

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Peggy in Maryland
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Thanks, Ashley. I'll hang in there. I'm getting dose #3 tonight, and I'll keep going as long as I have to. And I agree with you--Jim Bob's posts convinced me it was worthwhile to try the Buhner protocol. So Jim Bob, you've got fans!

The neuro problems I mentioned are weird--I feel extremely nervous most of the time, like the worst PMS humanly possible, and that's not my natural state at all. The doctor suggested these symptoms indicated the Lyme was invading my nervous system. So I felt the abx were a must.

After I took my first dose of sarsaparilla this morning, I felt like I was going to jump right out of my skin. Does anyone know if that's a typical reaction to this herb? Or could it be that whatever problems I've been having are going to be magnified by herxing?

Also, how do you compare dosing for tinctures as opposed to capsules? Buhner usually says to take one capsule three times a day, then in a week increase to two capsules three times a day and so on till you reach the max. But tinctures are concentrated, aren't they? So how do I know how much to use and how to increase the dose?

Peggy

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JimBoB
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Welllll, thank you Fans! [woohoo]

All kidding aside, I tell you MY experiences in hopes that some of you will be helped also.

At first it was frustrating because there were so many naysayers, but finally some listened and tried it and were showing improvements, so it has been worth it.

I MOSTLY use capsules as I feel they are easier on the system. I fill my own now, as it is sooooo much cheaper and I use veggie capsules.

I have used Vitacost in the past when buying ready made capsules, also I used Herbs-Wholesale, MyVitaNet, StarWest Botanicals, and others. Now I use mainly 1st Chinese Herbs. I buy ALL herbs in bulk now. The ONLY tintcures I use are Red Root and Periwinkle and those I make myself also now. You can get Red Root tincture from MyVitaNet if you want it all ready to use.

You can save 4 to 5 times the cost of ready mades, by making your own on the capsules and probably similar on the tinctures.

I didn't know my PM box was full. i will go there now and delete some of the old stuff. Thanks.

I started my venture with Buhner's protocol with Sarsaparilla, Devils Claw. Then Cats Claw, Andrographis and Resveratrol. Then I went on and started taking Periwinkle tincture, Stephania Root, Nettle, Milk thistle, Red Root tincture, and dabbled in a little garlic, olive leaf, oregano, and others. I am now taking Coptis, instead of Andrographis for awhile. Also, take Schisandra Berry, and Vitamin A, E, B complex. Buhner says B5 is important. I am also this month taking some free samples of a multi-vitamin that I got from WonderLabs. (I get my empty capsules and Vitamin A and natural E and B from them). They have good prices.

And of course I take a lot of Vitamin C as Buhner recommends. Such as the C-Salts from nutri.com

Well, that is it for now, FANS.

[bonk]

Keep up the good work.

Jim [Cool]

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JimBoB
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I want to add:

IF you are having trouble herxing, why not try Red Root tincture? It keeps your lymph system, (which includes your liver), CLEAN! Your herxes will be lighter and farther in between. Also don't forget milk thistle, it is good for the liver. I take three (3) capsules of Milk Thistle every day, AND I take three HALF droppers of Red Root tincture daily also. These are especially important if you are on some kind of abx that are really killing Spirochetes. You should feel much less miserable with these cleansers. Like Sarsaparilla, I feel these are more important than the abx AND the other herbs; IF you want to FEEL better.

I personally do NOT thing Sarsaparilla will make you herx as I don't think it will kill off Chetes.

The CHete killing will be from your abx and maybe some other herbs; such as Coptis or Andrographis.

Jim [Cool]

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Robin123
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Thx for the info and encouragement, JimBob -- how do you make a tincture? like the red root one?
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JimBoB
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It is actually quite easy.

Get a bottle of Vodka, and a pound of cut/sifted Red Root, ( 1st CHinese Herbs has it); a one quart jar.

Weigh out 1 ounce of Red Root to each 4 ounces of Vodka.

Put in the jar, cover, and keep for 2 to 4 weeks. Shake once everyday. Best to keep in the dark or a brown bottle. I keep mine in the fridge. You can use it after two weeks, but it will be more potent if you let it "cook" for 4 or more weeks.

After the 4 weeks, empty into another jar. Do this through a strainer, such as cheese cloth. You may also put the red root into the cheese cloth and squeeze out the last drops.

I then put this finished mixture into a small bottle that has a 1-ml dropper.

That is all there is to it. Except using it of course. I use a half a dropper full, three times a day. I mix it into a half glass of water mixed with a half glass of juice, (it also has my C-Salts and Periwinkle mixed in); and I take my other capsules with the concoction.

You don't have to use the juice if you don't want to. I just do because it tastes better that way.
Plain water is probably better for you.

My duc took a blood test of me for my liver condition as he was really scared when I told him all the herbs I take. It came back perfect.

Jim [Cool]

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