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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » Resveratrol Question for Marnie ( or anyone else)

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Author Topic: Resveratrol Question for Marnie ( or anyone else)
Annxyz
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Marnie and other members ,

The resveratrol that is part of Buhner's core protocol . It acts as a phytoestrogen , but Buhner states that it DOES not act in a way to
cause breast cancer .

I hope he is right on this point . Does anyone else have an opinion on estrogen and resveratrol ( japanese knotweed) ?

--------------------
ANNXYZ

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Ruth Ruth
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I don't know but I just finished reading the book and of all the things he suggested I decided to try that first.

That was about two weeks ago. I don't have any experience with antibiotics (yet) and don't have anything to compare to, but it seems like my body is acting more "infected" now. I think that's good. The immune system reawakening maybe? I sure hope so.

It's either that or I'm getting new symptoms while I wait to figure out what I am going to do about this disease. Sigh!

--------------------
When I lost my grip on Faith in the maze of illness,
Hope gently clasped my hand and led on.

RuthRuth

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Annxyz
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Ruth,

If you are starting the herbs ( or ABX) and your symptoms feel worse, that is probably a result of the die off of bacteria . It is tricky , but it FEELS like the disease is worse .

That is just the way most of us experience the herxheimer reaction . It is cruel to have a cure that makes you sooo ill, but in most cases it does.

A few people here have had milder herxing with herbs than ABX, but others find the herbs' effect intense . I do .

I have not heard ( so far ) from many people who can tolerate the max doses of the herbs .
Fortunately , I have heard from folks who feel they improved on even four tablets daily of andrographis, plus the other core herbs.

Good luck with the protocol.

--------------------
ANNXYZ

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Marnie
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Brought up my old reservatrol files:

Red Wine (resveratrol) and Lungs

Red wine could be good for your lungs, doctors say
By Alexandra Hudson, Reuters

LONDON (Reuters) - Red wine, already thought to be good for your heart, may be good for your lungs too, doctors say.

A compound found naturally in red wine could help fight chronic bronchitis and emphysema, a study has found, although scientists say there is probably not enough of the stuff in a glass for chronic sufferers to drink their way to good health.

The study found that the substance, resveratrol, which is found in the skin of red grapes, could reduce the amount of harmful chemicals in the lungs that cause the diseases.

The illnesses, known together as chronic obstructive pulmonary disease, or COPD, kill an estimated 2.9 million people a year worldwide, according to the World Health Organization. Smokers are 10 times as likely as nonsmokers to die of COPD.

"It seems that drinking red wine in moderation as part of a healthy, balanced diet can reduce lung inflammation," Dr. John Harvey, chairman of the Communications Committee of the British Thoracic Society, said.

Resveratrol is already thought to be one of the reasons why people in wine-drinking countries such as France have low rates of heart disease, Dr. Louise Donnelly, one of the report's authors, told Reuters.

Her team wanted to test whether those benefits could extend to lung disease. The research was published in the international medical journal Thorax Tuesday.

In the study, lung fluid samples were taken from 15 smokers and 15 COPD patients. When resveratrol was added to the samples, it cut production of interleukin 8, a chemical that causes inflammation of the lungs.

Production of the chemical was cut by 94 percent in smokers and by 88 percent in COPD patients.

COPD is now commonly treated with steroids, but resveratrol might prove more effective, Donnelly said. It would not reverse the damage that has occurred to the lungs, but could help stop it from getting any worse, she said.

Although there is probably not enough resveratrol in a wine glass for casual drinking to stop chronic lung disease, the substance could be administered directly with an inhaler, she said.


10/27/03 14:56 ET


Feb. 10, 2006 -- A glass of red wine may not only compliment your meal, it may also buy you some time to enjoy more out of life.
A new study shows an ingredient found in red wine, which has previously shown to prolong the life of worms and fruit flies, may extend the lifespan of vertebrate animals like fish and possibly humans.

Researchers found adding resveratrol, an organic compound found in grapes and particularly in red wine, to the daily diet of short-lived fish prolonged their lifespan and delayed the onset of age-related memory and other problems.
Resveratrol is one of a group of antioxidant compounds called polyphenols found in red wine that has been reported to have anti-inflammatory as well as anticancer properties and is currently being studied for a variety of pharmaceutical uses.

Red Wine Buys Time

Although prior studies have shown that resveratrol can prolong the life of extremely short-life species, such as yeast, fruit flies, and worms, researchers say large-scale, lifelong studies in more species with longer life spans, such as mice, are too expensive to conduct.

In this study, published in Current Biology, researchers examined the effects of resveratrol on a small type of fish that lives only three months in captivity.

The results showed that adding the red wine ingredient to the daily diet of the fish prolonged their expected life span and slowed the progression of age-related memory and muscular problems.

Researchers found fish fed the lower dose of resveratrol lived an average of 33% longer than fish fed their normal diets, while those fed the higher dose of the red wine ingredient lived more than 50% longer.

They say the findings suggest that resveratrol is the first compound to consistently prolong the life of several very different animal groups and could become the stepping stone for creating drugs to prevent age-related diseases in humans.

SOURCES: Valenzano, D. Current Biology, Feb. 7, 2006; vol 16: pp 296-300. News release, Cell Press.

Red Wine May Prevent Alzheimer's

Tests on Mice Show Promise, but Too Soon to Raise a Toast for People
Sept. 20, 2006 -- Red wine might put a cork on the formation of brain proteins tied to Alzheimer's disease, a new study shows.

But don't raise your wine glass to celebrate yet. The study only included mice. It's too soon to know if the findings apply to people.

Still, the data deserves further study and support the theory that one daily drink of red wine for women and two for men "may help reduce" Alzheimer's risk, write the researchers.
They included Jun Wang, PhD, of the psychiatry department at New York's Mount Sinai School of Medicine.

Wang's team notes that alcohol has risks as well as benefits, and they're not recommending anyone to start drinking wine for Alzheimer's prevention.

Their study is due to appear in The FASEB Journal's November edition. "FASEB" stands for Federation of American Societies for Experimental Biology.

Wine-Drinking Mice

Wang's team studied female mice with genes that order the production of amyloid-beta protein, which has been linked to brain plaque in Alzheimer's patients.

The researchers split the mice into three groups. One group of mice got its drinking water spiked with red wine (Cabernet Sauvignon from California-grown grapes). Another group of mice had its drinking water mixed with ethanol that didn't come from red wine. The mice in the third group were teetotalers, drinking water with no alcohol.

The mice were free to drink as much as they wanted for seven months. None went on major benders.
The mice's average wine consumption equaled moderate consumption in humans, the researchers note. They defined moderate consumption as:
1 daily 5-ounce glass of wine for women
2 daily 5-ounce glasses for men
Maze Test

After seven months of sipping their designated drinks, the mice individually were placed in a maze and challenged to find their way out.

Those in the red wine group performed best. The mice in the ethanol group weren't better at mastering the maze than the teetotalers, the study shows.

That finding "suggests that ethanol, at concentrations comparable to Cabernet Sauvignon, does not significantly influence spatial memory," the researchers write.

Then Wang's team made the maze test tougher. They flipped the finish line to the opposite side of the maze. That way, the mice didn't find the finish line where they expected it to be.

The mice in the red wine group were quicker to adapt to that change.

But the mice in the ethanol and water groups "performed poorly" in the new maze, note Wang and colleagues.

The Wine-Soaked Brain

The researchers checked the mice's brains for signs of amyloid-beta proteins.
The mice in the red wine group had the lowest levels of amyloid-beta proteins. No differences were seen in amyloid-beta levels in mice in the ethanol and water groups.

Lastly, the scientists doused Cabernet Sauvignon, at moderate levels for human consumption, on the building blocks of amyloid-beta protein.

Instead of making amyloid-beta, those chemical building blocks formed a different type of protein, the study shows.

The researchers caution that there is "no direct experimental evidence" that red wine or antioxidants called polyphenols in wine "beneficially influence" Alzheimer's disease.

That is, they're not making any Alzheimer's prevention promises for people.

Key Ingredient Unknown

What ingredient in red wine might explain the study's results? That's not clear.

Resveratrol, an antioxidant found in wine, has drawn attention in other research.

But in this experiment, resveratrol levels were 10 times lower than the minimum effective amount in past studies, note Wang and colleagues.

They call for more research to see if red wine and its polyphenol extracts are beneficial against Alzheimer's disease.

SOURCES: Wang, J. The FASEB Journal, November 2006. News release, Mount Sinai School of Medicine

WASHINGTON - Obese mice on a high-fat diet got the benefits of being thin _ living healthier, longer lives _ without the pain of dieting when they consumed huge doses of red wine extract, according to a landmark new study.

It's far too early to know if this would work in people, scientists said. But several were excited by the findings, calling it promising and even "spectacular."

The study by the Harvard Medical School and the National Institute on Aging shows that heavy doses of the red wine ingredient, resveratrol, lowers the rate of diabetes, liver problems and other fat-related ill effects in obese mice.

Fat-related deaths dropped 31 percent for obese mice on the supplement, compared to fat mice that got no treatment. The mice that got the wine extract also lived longer than expected, the study showed.

And astoundingly, the organs of the treated fat mice looked normal when they shouldn't have, said study lead author Dr. David Sinclair of Harvard Medical School.

"They're chubby but inside they look great," Sinclair said Wednesday afternoon. "You have to pinch yourself to make sure that this is all real, but the study involved 27 different researchers each of whom had a Eureka moment."

Sinclair said other preliminary work still under way shows the wine ingredient has promise in extending the lives of normal-sized mice, too.
Sinclair has a financial stake in the research. He is co-founder of a pharmaceutical firm, Sirtris Pharmaceuticals Inc. of Cambridge, Mass., which is testing to see if the extract can safely be used to treat people with diabetes.

For years, red wine has been linked to numerous health benefits. But the new study, published online in the journal Nature on Thursday, shows that mammals given ultrahigh doses of resveratrol can get the good effects of cutting calories without actually doing it.

"If we're right about this, it would mean you could have the benefit of restricting calories without having to feel hungry," Sinclair said. "It's the Holy Grail of aging research."
Even though he called the work "tantalizing," Dr. Howard Eisenson, director of the Duke University Diet and Fitness Center urged people not to get too excited.

"All of us who practice medicine have learned that we can't leap from studies in the lab _ particularly in lab animals _ to what will happen in humans," Eisenson said.

Resveratrol, produced when plants are under stress, is found in the skin of grapes and in other plants, including peanuts and some berries.
The 55 resveratrol-treated obese mice were on a high-calorie diet _ what one scientist called a "McDonald's diet." Not only were they about as healthy as normal mice, they were also as agile and active on exercise equipment as their lean cousins, demonstrating a normal quality of life that was unexpected for such obese creatures, said study co-author Rafael de Cabo of the Institute on Aging.

"These fat old mice can perform as well on this skill test as young lean mice," Sinclair said.
The only major body measurement that didn't improve _ aside from weight _ was cholesterol, and that didn't seem to matter in the overall health of the mice, Sinclair said.

The study is so promising that the aging institute this week is strongly considering a repeat of the same experiment with rhesus monkeys, a closer match to humans, said institute director Dr. Richard Hodes.

Hodes cautions that it's too early for people to start taking non-regulated resveratrol supplements because safety issues haven't been adequately addressed.

Sirtris Pharmaceuticals is working on a high-dose resveratrol pill that unlike unregulated supplements on the market now, would be used as a drug and require Food and Drug Administration approval, said company chief executive officer Dr. Christoph Westphal. And that development and federal approval is about five years away, he said.

Sirtris is aiming the research at diseases of aging, which includes diabetes.
Sinclair's results are so promising that he rushed the study into the science journal while the obese mice are still alive, not waiting several more weeks or months until they die.

That raises some issues, including specific figures about mortality, but is understandable, said outside experts. The obese mice still lived past the median age for mice of their weight.

Even would-be competitors are praising the study.
"It's a fairly spectacular result," said University of Wisconsin medical professor Dr. Richard Weindruch, who co-founded another biotech company that looks at the genetics of aging and drugs that could expand life spans. "People will go to McDonald's and afterwards they'll do super-sized resveratrol."

"This is fantastic," said Brown University molecular biology professor Stephen Helfand, who was the first reviewer for the journal Nature and not part of the team. "This is a historic landmark contribution."

Helfand said he won't be taking red wine extract supplements _ but he has put his elderly parents on them. Such supplements are available at health food stores and on-line, but not at dose levels equivalent to what the mice in the experiment got _ roughly equal to 100 bottles of wine a day in humans.

Mice, he said, are good initial test subjects for human drugs because their bodies function similarly to humans in many ways. However, the differences between mouse and man can prove crucial, he noted.

Sinclair said he takes resveratrol supplements, but doesn't recommend it for others.

Resveratrol works by spurring activity and regrowth in cells' mitochondria, which Sinclair called "the energy powerhouses of the cell."

Some scientists, such as Weindruch and Hodes, worry that the research may encourage people to forget about their diets and wait for a red wine cure-all that may never come.

"It's not an excuse to overeat," Sinclair said. But he added that for mice at least, this shows you can be "fat, happy, healthy and vigorous."

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MarsyNY
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Resveratrol is a phytoestrogen it exhibits estrogen like properties similar to DES,estradiol. Women with a history of estrogen sensitive breast,ovarian, and uterine cancer are advised not to take resveratrol.

Also not advised for woman taking Hormones, Estradiol.


From the MSK site:

Adverse Reactions
As resveratrol exhibits estrogen-like properties and activates transcription by estrogen receptor that leads to stimulation of cancer cell proliferation, women with estrogen receptor-positive cancers should avoid resveratrol (7).

It looks like a great supplement to be able to add to the regimen just need to be be aware of the above.

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serendipity
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I recently added Japenese Knotweed to my regimen.

The week before my menstrual period I was depressed, irritable, and weak. There was much going on including other new herbs.

Wonder if resveratrol can excerabate premenstrual symptoms.

This keeps getting more complicated. [dizzy]

[ 25. February 2007, 08:48 PM: Message edited by: serendipity ]

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Annxyz
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Buhner explains that resveratrol does not present a risk, but I am having a hard time believing it . A phytoestrogen is still a form of estrogen .

I read stories of women who took soy products to raise estrogen levels , and then developed problems.

If I stay on the resveratrol , I will stay on a very low dose .

I aleady have been told I have "marked " estrogen levels.

Serendipity, I would watch the resveratrol carefully and see how it affects your moods .

--------------------
ANNXYZ

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JimBoB
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Until Buhner says differently, I will have the tendency to believe HIM rather than others.

Everyone makes mistakes, but there is too much speculation out there for me to believe everyone who says something about it.

Jim [Cool]

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Annxyz
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I give Buhner lots of credit - but NO ONE is infallible . we have not read of any studies that would persuade one way or another as far as how this herb would affect actual estrogen levels.

May I respectfully remind you that you are a man who would have less at risk with estrogen dominance ?

--------------------
ANNXYZ

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Ruth Ruth
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Hmmmmm. Maybe this is a gender based difference. You remember the heart disease studies that found out men and women have different heart disease processes? I wonder!

Now that someone mentioned the hormonal/emotional connection, it makes me wonder.

The resveratrol is supposed to do all this great stuff for me. Now how can I tell if it's herx or coincidence or PMS or a bad idea!

--------------------
When I lost my grip on Faith in the maze of illness,
Hope gently clasped my hand and led on.

RuthRuth

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JimBoB
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Yes, Ann, I am. And that is another good reason why I won't listen to what others say about herbs. In the very beginning when I got on this list, I was told by a woman that men DO respond to treatments better than women, usually. So ThAT was good news. At least for ME.

And in my post above, I DID say NO ONE is perfect. Or more correctly, Everyone Makes Mistakes. BUT HE has the MOST knowledge on these herbs that I know of.

RuthRuth, you will have to take your pick, I guess.

Hopefully it will be the right one for you.

Jim [Cool]

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Marnie
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Estrogen helps keep calcium IN our bones.
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hardynaka
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Knotweed is NOT resveratrol. Resveratrol is one component of Japanese knotweed.

If you take red wine, you take Resveratrol! If I remember right, it's in the peel of grapes.

People here in French (and Italian) speaking countries will get very upset if they hear some women would rather not take red wine, due to hormonal problems!! [Big Grin] Red wine is almost sacred here!

It's common sense here that a glass of red wine a day does more good than bad to health. Most doctors will say that!

It's like artemisinin. It's NOT Artemisia annua.

According to Buhner, an isolate component is likely to create more bad reactions than whole herb. Whole herb has thousands of chemical active substances inside, not a single one, that can balance/ counteract the bad effects of each component.

I think this was in Planet trhive. Not about Resveratrol/ Knotweed though, but in general.

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MarsyNY
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The roots of Polygonum were found to have the highest levels of Resveratrol. 377mg/100g dry root. This is more than grape skins, seeds et.
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JimBoB
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Good post, Selma.
###

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And that is why we need to take Resveratrol. Some may remember the "grape cure" from years ago. MAYBE the Resveratrol in them is what helped people with tumors, etc..

I personally take Hu Zhang, which is Chinese Knotweed. Works for me.

Jim [Cool]

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capebite
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Resveratrol is a natural phytoalexin compound found in grapes and other food products. In this study, the effect of resveratrol on the growth of human breast cancer cells was examined. Results show that resveratrol inhibits the growth of estrogen receptor(ER)-positive MCF-7 cells in a dose-dependent fashion. Detailed studies with MCF-7 cells demonstrate that resveratrol antagonized the growth-promoting effect of 17-β-estradiol (E2) in a dose-dependent fashion at both the cellular (cell growth) and the molecular (gene activation) levels. At 5 10−6 M, resveratrol abolished the growth-stimulatory effect mediated by concentrations of E2 up to 10−9 M. The antiestrogenic effect of resveratrol could be observed at a concentration of 10−6 M and above. The antiestrogenic effect of resveratrol was also demonstrated at the molecular level. Resveratrol in a dose-dependent fashion antagonized the stimulation by E2 of progesterone receptor gene expression in MCF-7 cells. Moreover, expression of transforming growth factor- and insulin-like growth factor I receptor mRNA was inhibited while the expression of transforming growth factor β2 mRNA was significantly elevated in MCF-7 cells cultivated in the presence of resveratrol (10−5 M). In summary, our results show that resveratrol, a partial ER agonist itself, acts as an ER antagonist in the presence of estrogen leading to inhibition of human breast cancer cells. J. Cell. Physiol. 179:297-304, 1999. 1999 Wiley-Liss, Inc.
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