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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » What else can cause a lyme specific band to be positive

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Author Topic: What else can cause a lyme specific band to be positive
Deb133
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This is so confusing and Frustrating. What else

can cause a borrelia specific band (Band 39 to be

exact) to be positive if you do not have lyme. My

daughter has only IGM 39 and IGG 58. Does anyone

have an opinion what else this could possibly be?

Could just any healthy person still have a lyme

specific band show up positive?? I am going

crazy! Thanks to anyone!!! Deb G

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carly
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Deb,

Look at "Dr C's Western Blot Explanation"

It's one of the topics in "Medical Questions"

It has a wealth of info and possibly your answers.

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nenet
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Hi Deb,

Carly is correct, Dr. C's Western Blot explanation is a must read - it will help you greatly. Here is the link to it - I know this place can be less than intuitive for the newcomer. This is vitally important:

Dr. C's Western Blot Explanation

http://flash.lymenet.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=042077

A couple of quotes from the above linked article, regarding band 39:

"39: Unknown what this antigen is, but based on research at the National Institute of Health (NIH), other Borrelia (such as Borrelia recurrentis that causes relapsing fever), do not even have the genetics to code for the 39 kDa antigen, much less produce it. It is the most specific antibody for borreliosis of all."

"In my clinical experience, if a patient has symptoms suspicious for borreliosis, and has one or more of the following bands, there is a very high probability the patient has borreliosis.

These bands are 18, 22, 23-25, 28, 30, 31, 34, 37, 39, 41, 83, and 93."


Please know there is a lot of good info from reputable sources about these things, and many people here that are glad to be of help.

Please feel free to ask more questions about this of course, and also search for older posts if you want even more info. Many people with extensive experience and knowledge have moved on due to getting better or other reasons, and they shared a lot of good information over the years, so don't miss out on searching the archives as well.

--------------------
Dr. C's Western Blot Explanation

Lymenet Success Stories

ILADS Treatment Guidelines

Medical & Scientific Literature on Lyme

"Long-Term Antibiotic Therapy Improves Persistent Symptoms Associated with Lyme Disease"

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Bobidor
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According to Dr. C's website (http://www.drcharlescrist.com/testing.htm), band 58 is also specific.
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tickwhisperer
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I initially had four Westernblots through Quest that all indicated a positive 23 IGM band. Additionally, some of the same tests had positive lyme-specific IGG bands, but my PCP stated I could not have Lyme because I was not "CDC" positive. I then tested through Igenix and my Lyme-specific IGM and IGG bands lit up like a Christmas tree. I have now found a great LLMD and am feeling better on oral ABX after one year. Find a good lab and get a decent test!
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Deb133
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Thank you everybody for taking the time to read

and answer my post. I have read Dr. C's western blot

over and over the past 5 weeks. Sometimes I guess

I just need to make sure I am reading this correctly

appt with LLMD is Thursday.....

Thanks again,

Deb G

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timaca
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Let me add a different take on this. I know of 4 people (3 of which were fully CDC positive on the IGG and IgM WB) who were very healthy. Even though they had lots of bands on their WB, they did not have lyme. Somewhere along the way, they may have been exposed to lyme...or for some reason their body made antibodies to lyme, but they were not sick with lyme.

If you have one or two bands on a WB then your body has made few antibodies to the lyme bacteria (as compared to lots of antibodies). Lyme may not be what is making you ill.

It is important to get checked out for everything that can be causing your symptoms, then treat what looks most obvious.

Get checked out for mycoplasma pneumonia, chlamydia pneumonia, EBV, HHV-6 and other herpes viruses and enterovirus.

It's important to identify what really is making someone ill.

Good luck. Timaca

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seekhelp
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Timaca, you post that message a lot and I believe it makes a lot of sense. I think sometimes we're too quick on this forum to assume one band means on the WB means it's Lyme causing all problems.
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bpeck
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Hello:

The body makes antibodies in response to the proteins a bacteria makes, and the western blot measures those antibodies.

Sometimes, more than one kind of bacteria can make the same protein... so when you measure the antibodies made to that protein, you can't tell exactly what bacteria made that protein. That's called cross-reacttivity.

Those proetins are called "bands" on a western blot.

Furthermore..For Lyme, there are 2 proteins expressed that are highly specific for Lyme (They are OspC band 23-25, and BmpA Band 39.) That means NO OTHER bacteria can make this protein.

Most of the others can be argued by conventional Drs. to be cross-reactive.

Almost anyone who knows anything about Lyme would realize your daughter is positive - just band 39 is enough to be considered positive.

Barb

SOme (conventional) Drs will argue that bacteria other than Lyme can express similar proteins as Lyme does.

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yanivnaced
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timaca:
how did they manage to get a western blot if they were not sick? it seems sometimes even if a patient is dying many doctors refuse to look beyond an elisa test.

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timaca
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seekhelp~ Yes, I do post this message a lot. Test for lots of things...treat the obvious first, then go from there.

Barb~ My husband was sky high on band 39 from MDL. He had no lyme symptoms. He did have AFib which was cured by an ablation procedure. I don't think (in hindsight) that my husband had lyme. To base a diagnosis on one band, without testing for other things is not wise. Test for a lot of things...treat the obvious. One band, even band 39 is not a slam dunk diagnosis. It certainly bears considering, but is not slam dunk.

yanivanced~ One of those tested was Dr. F's assistant. Dr. F related the test results on a video I have. Another person is married to a friend of mine who likely has lyme. He came back positive, but is healthy as a horse. A doctor friend of mine sent some blood of a healthy person off to Igenex "just to see what the results would be". Totally CDC positive. This person is very healthy. I know of another person that had lots of bands on a WB from Igenex. You all would say she had lyme. She didn't. She had (the name escapes me now)...but the disease you get from drinking raw milk. Brucellosis I think.

I could go on...but the point is. Test lots, then treat the obvious.

Best, Timaca

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timaca
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Deb~
One question for you. How long has your daughter been ill?
Timaca

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Deb133
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Timaca,

She has been sick since Nov 17th. Joint pain,

muscle aches, stomache pain, ear pain/ringing,

mild light/noise sensitivity, headaches, jaw pain,

cheek tingles, feet hurt, tingliness, sometimes

major fatigue but usually just fatigue, in the

beginning it was hard to even lift her arms,

wooziness, chest pain, shortness of breath, general feeling of sickness...

lots of bloodwork everything negative, ultrasound

of stomach, gallbladder, liver and pancreas negative. I will bring a list of these other

things that you recommend testing for. Thanks,

Deb G

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Deb133
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Seems to be that some LLMD's will treat if one

band is positive if its one of the specific bands

as long as the patient has symptoms of borrelia.

Still learning....

Deb G

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Deb133
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Brucellosis seems to very rare. 100-200 cases in

US per year. Occurs worldwide but mainly in

countries with poor sanitary conditions.

Hopefully, I can rule that one out [Smile]

Thanks again everybody !!!!


Deb G

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timaca
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Deb~ The person that had brucellosis had been out of the country and had drunk raw milk. But it took a very careful doctor taking a very good history to discover the cause of her illness. She had lots of bands on a WB test. Many here would have said Lyme...but it wasn't. It was brucellosis.

Since your daughter has not been ill for very long, then I would pay more attention to her IgM positive band 39 then if she had been ill for longer (where I'd expect more IgG bands).

Do talk with your doctor as ask for as many tests as he is willing to run. It also wouldn't hurt to run the lyme WB at other labs (stonybrook, MDL, Focus) to help in your decision.

Best, Timaca
ps...there is an interesting article here:
http://www.newsobserver.com/news/story/1333377.html

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aiden424
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quote:
Originally posted by yanivnaced:
timaca:
how did they manage to get a western blot if they were not sick? it seems sometimes even if a patient is dying many doctors refuse to look beyond an elisa test.

I was wondering that myself. Also the tests aren't cheap, so who would want to pay for them if they were healthy. Doesn't make sense??

My husband has a few Lyme symptoms but his IGeneX test was negative.

Kathy

--------------------
You never know how strong you are until being strong is the only choice you have.

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Deb133
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Timaca,

What an interesting article! I wrote down

all the tests that you mentioned...and will

address those on our appt on Thursday..

Thank you for all your input..I do appreciate it.

Deb G

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